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Design => Stunt design => Topic started by: EddyR on April 15, 2015, 02:21:45 PM
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I thought this is a better place for this build. It was under Building tech http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,38482.0.html
Here is where I am now.
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More. The wing is not glued in,just fitting it. <=
Ed
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Looking good Eddy
Jim
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Pat Johnston design. Pat does nice work. I've watched him fly Bearcats since the 80s. The always fly well.
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Randy you are correct. There are a few changes on the Brodak kit but I have fallowed Pats suggestions. There are a few mistakes in the kit compared to the plans. The kit fuselage is like the Pat design but the kit plans are very different in the engine cowl.I also used 3/8 palsa for the front of the fuselage not laminated 1/4 sheet to the 3/32 sides. The plane is very close to the Rabe Bearcat but with a larger stab and thicker wing. Also equal wing panels. I spent a lot of time today shaping the stab profile,sand,sand,sand ;D
Ed
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Eddy,
At some point, Pat changed from his sorta-Rabe airfoil to an Impact airfoil and was pretty happy with the results. Pat has built several Bearcats over the years and they usually fly pretty well.
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Wing and stab finished and first coats of dope on them.
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Just a update on the Bearcat with the old Rabe Bearcat in the background.
Ed
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Very nice Ed. Can't wait to see it fly.
Don
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WOW...if that don't get the old building juices fired up, what will? H^^
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Eddy,
Looks like some real neat framing!
Nice job with the fillets also.
Covering looks tight.
Destined to be a great looking model!
Blue like your other Bearcat?
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This one will be orange like the Al Williams Bearcat. http://hsfeatures.com/f8frw_1.htm
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Eddy,
Nice! I should have guessed that.
My all time best aircraft to model is the Al William's Gulfhawk G-22, has the same color scheme.
I have the graphics for that Al William's Bearcat, but not scaled for the Brodak Bearcat kit.
Small changes could do it. ;D
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That would help painting the double color stripe. It is going to be a double reverse paint job on the stripes as I do not want to paint white over the orange.
Ed
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Looking good Eddy. I'd like to get a good look at the top view outlines, could we get a good photo from straight above? I've got one of these kits and a NIB Saito .56 on my shelf, looking at yours here has me thinking... ;D
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Looking good Eddy. I'd like to get a good look at the top view outlines, could we get a good photo from straight above? I've got one of these kits and a NIB Saito .56 on my shelf, looking at yours here has me thinking... ;D
The kit has full size plans top and side view but here is a shot from the bottom of mine. I think your motor will be to heavy even with the short nose of the Bearcat.
Mine weighs 38 ounces with every thing on it except the tank and gears doors. My engine weighs 9.1 ounces with muffler.
I was going to use a 46-51 engine it it but it is so light I have one of my Rustler/40's in it. I can put a ST/46 in if needed. It balances with the light motor in it. I spent a huge amount of time reshaping and building a new rudder as the kit one was to big and heavy. The rudder will get mounted just before color as it is in the way all the time. HB~>
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Overall the semi-scale proportions look much better on yours than they do on the poor quality box art photos. I'm sort of "re-interested" in mine now. ;D
Thanks Eddy!
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Warbird
I looked up a the Saito 56 and it is listed at 15 ounces. My ST.46 with a stub weights 9.6 and the Rustler is 9.1 with muffler. The Bearcat is a small model with 565 sq" so you would be in the 56+ounces. I saw Brian Moores with a 60 RE in it but did not see it fly. It weighted 56 ounces. The classic Rabe Bearcat is larger but has a much thinner airfoil. The Rabe classic one flys OK up to 57 ounces. A LA 46 would be a good combination. It would look good with a 4 cycle in it.
Ed
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Eddy, could you share with us how you run your Rustler 40? What is your set-up? Thanks...
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Bill
I have two very early ones. When I first had them I tried 25% castor fuel. Flame out all the time. I went to 20% oil half and half. Much better but still some problems. Later I used 18% oil with 25% of it castor. The cheaper the fuel the better they ran. 15% no castor run fine. Also I started with classic props like a 10/6 and that did not work well at all. Later on smaller classic models I used a 10x4 and ran the motors very fast and that is how they like to run. I have used 11/4 wood and 11.75x 4.25 carbon props and they work fine. The power comes on as the RPM goes up. Since there is no bushing on the crank I thought it would wear out quick put neither seems to have any wear in them. I had one in my JD Falcon and it flew just as well as the ST/46. I left the .46 in as the plane needed the nose weight. On smaller classic models I clean up 11x 4 props cut down to 10.5x4. I also added a oil return grove to the case to get fuel to the crankshaft for lubrication.
I also gave up on the oddball needle valve that came with the motor as it took up to much room and I went with a standard NV assembly. Years ago I bought one used from someone in New England,Was that you Bill?? ;D
The Rustler seems to have power similar to the Evolution .36
Ed
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Hi, Ed, ok, thanks for the great info! Yes, I think I sold one to you years ago...but now have another, and looking forward to "copying" your success!
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Warbird
I looked up a the Saito 56 and it is listed at 15 ounces. My ST.46 with a stub weights 9.6 and the Rustler is 9.1 with muffler. The Bearcat is a small model with 565 sq" so you would be in the 56+ounces. I saw Brian Moores with a 60 RE in it but did not see it fly. It weighted 56 ounces. The classic Rabe Bearcat is larger but has a much thinner airfoil. The Rabe classic one flys OK up to 57 ounces. A LA 46 would be a good combination. It would look good with a 4 cycle in it.
Ed
Thanks for the info Eddy. I've got a few NIB Saito .40's too, I guess I'll just have to decide whenever the Bearcat lands on the workbench. ;D
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I have been on a lot of trips this summer so I just got back to this. All is now covered with tissue and almost ready for color.
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Lookin' good Eddy! y1
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Eddy,
I can't believe how fast you put that Bearcat together! LL~
Nice clean work everywhere.
Any dihedral on that model?
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Here is a long lost method of attaching a canopy that I have used since the 1950's I have a 50 + year old stunt model that used this method and it is still tight today. I use CELASTIC. it was developed in the 1920's. It comes in sheets and you cut it in straight lines. Brush lacquer thinner on it and it is so soft you can tie knots in it. It will bond to dope and the soft material the our canopy's are made of. It will not come loose as it becomes part of the material it is bonding to. Very much stronger than any glue. If you are slow it will take you five minutes to do the job. I have done scale models with it but this Bearcat is a stand off model with no real detail. The canopy inside is a used military look with little detail. It can be sanded like balsa and a little spackle will take out the body seam. I add it to the paint line and leave a small bump at the glass area just like the real plane. Here it is rougher in.
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I use CELASTIC.
Where can you get Celastic? SIG used to sell something like that.
Keith
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Is it me or did you not paint the cockpit area before you attached the canopy? ???
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I painted the cockpit area like a photo I have of used military Bearcats. I have a large book on the Barcat and most of them were black with grey primer on them. The primer wore off and they looked shaded in spots. It was a attempt to stop sun glare.Some were painted dark blue like the rest of the plane. I have two pictures of private planes and some are painted inside the canopy but most are not.
I do remember where I got the last piece of Celastic. I think it was 12" square ,cost maybe a dollar. Sig, hobby shop?
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Where can you get Celastic? SIG used to sell something like that.
Keith
http://www.celasticworld.com/Celastic_LT_s/3.htm (http://www.celasticworld.com/Celastic_LT_s/3.htm)
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I see you used dihedral. Cool. Pat's used it for years and it works really well.
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Randy It is a Brodak kit but it is built to Pats spec. I lessened the dihedral to 3/4" from the kit's 1" as Pat suggested. I need to replace the canopy as it has a bad spot in one side, Bummer. I will see it Bridak has one before I remove it. Had to build a custom tank as the nose is to short for any standard tank.
Ed
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How's the Bearcat coming?
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Painted the orange yesterday and sanded it lightly today. The orange is thin in some places but it is flat and smooth. No more is going on as this has been a real effort to keep this plane under 50 ounces. Trim and clear in a few days.
Ed
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Nice! Can't wait to see it fly!
Don
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Ok, I might just be stupid here, but I don't get this one. In reply #25 you've already got the canopy attached and the cockpit area is all in grey. Then, in reply #33, the cockpit area is all red orange like the rest of the airplane. You must have removed the canopy at some point or...? ???
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See post #31
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Starting the trim.
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See post #31
Got it. Lookin' good Eddy! y1
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That is looking great Ed!
Can't wait to see it all done and hear how it fly's.
EricV
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Looks good Eddy!!!!
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It's certainly orange. Looks good and should show up well.
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looking sharp,, cant wait to hear how it flies for you
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More done today. Thank goodness the original plane did not duplicate the the paint design from top to the bottom of the wing. The bottom is mostly lettering.
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Looks really good Eddy. Hope if flies as well as it looks.
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Here is where we are now after a large repair to lifting orange on the nose. The original plane had no design on the bottom of the wing but I went ahead and did the bottom of the wing to match the top. There is no clear on it yet. I need wheels, ink striping,and lead out done then clear.
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looks nice,, how long before you plan to maiden it?
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Finished except for leadouts. Weight 49-50 oz. I may have to much tip weight and spinner weight in it so it is not going to get any heaver maybe lighter. I can switch from the ST/46 to Rustler/40 and loose one ounce in the nose. Equal span wing panels so I am starting with plenty of tip weight.
The blue Rabe Bearcat weights 72 oz and has a thin wing and flies quite well.
Ed
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Wow! Came out great, and at a really good weight too! Can't wait to hear how she flies. #^
This one ought to be a real fun bird to fly. Stay off that middle turbulent circle for your maiden, heh heh. n~
EricV
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Way to go Eddy! Now I have Bearcat envy...
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Way to go Eddy! Now I have Bearcat envy...
Yes, I do also.
Eddy, H^^
Great job!!
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Ed and I flew yesterday at Huntersville and had some great weather. Ed got in the maiden flight plus one of the new Bearcat and it flies great and looks awesome in the air. Can't wait to get back to the field for some more flying!
Don
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well I look pretty frazzled in that picture. Hat hair,sweaty, and tired. Anyway I have pulled all the IC parts out and will be going to electric very soon. It pulled very easy with the detuned ST/46 so the typical {46 size electric should do it} It weighs 38 ounces empty. ~^
Ed
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Anyway I have pulled all the IC parts out and will be going to electric very soon.
Whaaaat? Why? :(
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I never did go electric,to much weight. I gave up on the ST/46 as it was filling the cowl with exhaust and I could not find a manifold to carry the exhaust behind the motor. I installed one of my Rustler/40's and used the rear exhaust setup and it pulled the plane fine on the same lines. There is no exhaust on the plane after the flight. I only have a couple of flights on the Bearcat since the change and have added lead to the nose each flight to get the CG and feel back to where I was with the 46 in it. Some cracks opened up at the wing body at the leading edge which surprised me so I need to fix that issue.The plane was built for this motor so it was a drop in.
EddyR
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Ed and I flew yesterday at Huntersville and had some great weather. Ed got in the maiden flight plus one of the new Bearcat and it flies great and looks awesome in the air. Can't wait to get back to the field for some more flying!
Don
Great .
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Bearcat update. I repaired the wing to fuselage problem. It is now glassed inside and out. Since I had to make that repair I went ahead and built a in the cowl muffler exhaust system so I could use the ST/46.I took a lot of work to convert the Tatone muffler to what you see here. I had used the Tatone muffler on this motor so I new it would work in this cut down version. All internal tank tubing now. Uniflow sneaks out the cowl opening.
Should be done for Huntersville next week.
This is the very first Brian Gardener ABC motor. It is still strong after all these years. #^
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Hey Eddy,
Looking forward to hearing how it works out!
EricV
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Eddy,
I have had one of the Brodak Bearcat kits waiting in line for too long........
Could you please detail the changes you made from the Brodak kit so that the final model is actually what Pat designed?
Thanks,
Jim
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Jim
It is had to believe I started this a year ago. The changes I made are mentioned in #4 above. Here they are so you do not need to look for them.
" There are a few changes on the Brodak kit but I have fallowed Pats suggestions. There are a few mistakes in the kit compared to the plans. The kit fuselage is like the Pat design but the kit plans are very different in the engine cowl.I also used 3/8 palsa for the front of the fuselage not laminated 1/4 sheet to the 3/32 sides. The plane is very close to the Rabe Bearcat but with a larger stab and thicker wing. Also equal wing panels. I spent a lot of time today shaping the stab profile,sand,sand,sand Grin"
I changed the ruder shape a lot to make it look more scale like. Do not use any kit wood that is not contest grade. It is very hard to build to 50 ounces. I did everything to keep it light. Weight now is 54 ounces but it may have to much lead in the nose from the lighter motor that was in it. I felt it was to light at 48-50 ounces but that may have been because it was slightly tail heavy. The CG was correct but it had instant turn. I do not like to fly on close spaced handle lines so lead was added. Penetration in wind improved a lot. I will repaint the cowl tomorrow and fly it this week. All the previous flights with the Rustler 40 and the ST.46 have been very good with no trim needed except nose weight. It takes a lot of weight in the nose to move the CG 1/4". I would not recommend any motor except a rear exhaust one as a side exhaust motor will fill the nose with exhaust residue.
NOTE here is something I learned from building two bearcats. You can not use a on the side of the body tube for the uniflow. It is to far from the tank and the motor will go lean as the take gets half empty. Now my uniflow vent is next to the motor inside the cowl. If you look closely you can see my original tube sticking out the side of the body.
Ed
When I had the Rustler 40 in the plane I vented the uniflow out he bottom inline with the tank. I fought this problem for two years with my Rabe Bearcat. ~^
Ed
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Eddy, Thanks for the reply......I did read post #4 but thought there might be more detail available as to Pat's suggestions for improvements. Also took note of the dihedral reduction mentioned in post #31.
Can you help me out a bit with regard to the changes in the rudder that you mentioned?
BTW, I scratch built Pat's P51D (from his plans) and it it is probably the best flyer that I have:)
Cheers,
Jim
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Jim I will take a picture tomorrow. The plans shape didn't look correct. I pretty much copied the Rabe Bearcat rudder. Painted the cowl today and will mount it tomorrow. Then test run the motor and try and find a day this week with out high winds. This weekend looks good for the Hunterville contest. I have a total of five flights in this year.
Also have a new All American built just like Harold's original.51" span not 49.5" as the kit builds.
Ed
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http://www.airliners.net/photo/Grumman-F8F-2-Bearcat/2742484/&sid=51948825fe6cef24269a203855d863a5
Guess I could go back to Pensacola and look at the actual plane, too:)
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Jim Here is the rudder as I built it. It is quite a lot different than what the plans show. I removed a lot off the front and made it narrower at the top. I am now almost scale shape. This view and the one your link went to look almost identical The kit canopy is nothing like a Bearcat canopy.
Hope to fly it tomorrow. Also I did not use the movable rudder as I did on rabe Bearcat. I did not like it.
Ed
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Since no pictures yet I will add in a old one to keep interest going. Plus one from last December. #^
Ed
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Green with Envy . A Bearcattts notta the bada ship , eh .
Theres a F8F1 & F8F2 , the F2 has the taller fin / ruddder , so looks differant .
(https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/dsdsde.jpg)
wanna do the last one there , before the end of time . >:(