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Author Topic: Aero Flying Fork... Has anyone tried that for a "floatin'stabilator for stunt?  (Read 1382 times)

Offline Shultzie

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  • Don Shultz "1969 Nats Sting Ray"
Years ago...
I tried experimenting with floating or stabilators for stunt...on n' old Nobler. I saw one fly at the 69 nats that seem to fly quite well. I keep hearing flyers saying that this is a BAD IDEA...

Here is an Aero Flying fork that Bob Violett sent me...hummm??? around 1977 or so????
Looked interesting but the old white test bed Nobler bit the dirt when I was experimenting with an "X" stab n' elevator arrangement.   I never did get that weird little flying F'in' FORK FLYING?
HAS ANYONE TRIED THESE FOR STUNT. Bob Violett and the pylon buds...used them with some pretty good success? AP^ n~
Don Shultz

Online Dennis Adamisin

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Ty's right  CLP**

Bob Daly and some of the other Strathmoor club memebrs tried flying stabs, but not with the fork.

I recall that Bill Fitzgerald had a Nobler converted that way too, do not know how his mechanism was constructed.  Maybe Dave or Ted can check in on that..?

I think the biggest advantage with the "fork" design is that it makes it easy to plug in or remove the stab for transport.



Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline L0U CRANE

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Schultzie, et al...

I played with stabilator stunt/sport-stunt models for a few years in the early-/mid-80's. (Ken McLanahan also had a few such models...)

Instead of an RC Glider type, fork-driven, "all-flying" stabilator, I used a bearing across the root of the surface so the moving surfaces were better supported. Example: for a profile, a ply plate about 1.5" span, centered on the fuse, mounted a tube bearing for the "spreader" wire that connects the stabilator halves. Outboard of that center plate, everything pivoted... Horn attached - of course - to the moving stabilators... On lightly-built 1/2A and .09 models, I needed a light (.015 to .025 solid) tie-wire across the TE to keep the slot from stabilator to mount plate definitely open.

What I found was that a much smaller total horizontal tail area was as effective in turning power as a much larger standard stab+elevator setup... no fixed surface opposing elevator input... Also, the deflection angle needed was much less, more like the angle from stab LE to elev TE than the usual 30° or more degrees. (Think laying a straight piece of wood from LE to TE on a standard stab+elev tail at 30° deflection. That's ample for the all-moving surfaces.) That was the blessing and the curse of the setup.

If an all-flying stabilator is hinged well forward, control input forces increase - we have plenty of pull for that, and you get a solid restoring-force back towards neutral. If it is hinged too far aft, however, you'll get a tendency to "lock-over" to extreme angle, and that's hard to force back towards neutral. NOT smooth... NOT kewwll...

I figured where the aerodynamic center of the stabilator planform was - 25% of the Mean Aerodynamic Chord for symmetrical sections - and put the hinge at 20% MAC. Some restoring force. Low force required to deflect it for control input. In fact, I settled on bending the spreader wire tangs forward, to get 'static balance' - with 80% of the stabilator area aft of the hinge there was a tendency for the aft to droop. With the tangs forward, I got close to balancing that tendency to zero, or over-balancing slightly "up" (away from the ground) both ways.

The two nastiest features with a small tail area and a low-input-force requirement:

1) ZERO grooving. Without a stabilizer surface, no inherent stability. The model went where you steered it, only, and you had to hold it to the path you wanted. You turned it, you straightened it and kept it straight, or it wasn't...   Notice I said "towards neutral," above - NOT "to neutral." You want neutral, you find it and YOU hold it there. You can get used to this, but it does require constant attention.

2) In extreme wind conditions, a small tail area, usually adequate for excellent turning, may not be enough for a low high-g pull-out. I proved it wasn't - the hard way.

Larger, all-flying tails, as on Nuts'n'Bolts, can easily be extremely sensitive and powerful. Possibly moving the hinge line forward can help with that.

Finally, nowadays when so many great-flying stunt models look almost like tandem-wing layouts, instead of large mainplane/smaller control surfaces layouts, the much smaller tail area practical and efficient for a stabilator model looks wierd...
\BEST\LOU

Offline Shultzie

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  • Don Shultz "1969 Nats Sting Ray"
Thanks for the insight about your experiences with flying stab BIG IRON... with that set up years ago....I was very very impressed with that plane...
It flew...dead straight and turned virtually inside itself. Biggest boonie' was that I DIDNT EVEN HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT MODEL.....I could put most of my attention onto the other flyer's streamer.
I dare you to try that with your average old Nobler?  %^

(See crappy scan job... LL~
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 07:14:00 PM by Shultzie »
Don Shultz

Offline Steve Helmick

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I came across a picture in an old M.A.N. that was interesting. Some young guy down in So. Cal. with his new stunter, with flaps and a stabilator. Looked normal, otherwise. That feller was Paul Walker. I noticed that none of Paul's current models have a stabilator. If Paul can't make it work well enough, then nobody can, but that's just my opinion. I'll try to remember to ask if he still has that model. I think there's a couple dozen planes in his shop, leaning against the wall, stacked like combat models.  y1 Steve
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Offline Shultzie

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  • Don Shultz "1969 Nats Sting Ray"
I came across a picture in an old M.A.N. that was interesting. Some young guy down in So. Cal. with his new stunter, with flaps and a stabilator. Looked normal, otherwise.

 That feller was Paul Walker. I noticed that none of Paul's current models have a stabilator. If Paul can't make it work well enough, then nobody can, but that's just my opinion.
I'll try to remember to ask if he still has that model. I think there's a couple dozen planes in his shop, leaning against the wall, stacked like combat models.  y1 Steve

That brings to mind our Howard "Lynn" Dooty of Tacoma...who won 1st place with his test bed flying stab model at the FIRST ANNUAL TACOMA MALL CONTEST around 1967 or 68? or so... with that old red test bed removable winged model. I never had the chance to fly that model...but Lynn won not only that contest placed 3rd with it at the Yakima firing center annual contest.
I won 1st that day...barley edged Paul and Lynn  out of that spot with GOOD AIR...before the
and Lynn was 3rd?

Humm?
HEY PAUL...IF YOU ARE LURKING...DO YOU REMEMBER THAT OLD MODEL of Howard Dooty's?
Lynn built that test bed flying stab model with a removeable wing and adjustable stab....so he could do some real serious tweaking. (Howard Lynn Dooty flew a brand new Cessna that also flew with a flying stab. Perhaps that is where he got the idea to test it for stunt?
Here are a couple of shots of Howards test model
and that really nice flying Gieske Nobler at the nats that had lots of attention?
Sorry for the crappy scans from that old Epson slide scanner that went  belly up. LL~ HB~>
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 11:34:25 AM by Shultzie »
Don Shultz

Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Y'know, Wild Bill's been using stabilators for at least 40 years. Some of his designs have flown pretty well . . .


(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
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Offline Air Ministry .

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They'r safer for pulling out of dives at supersonic speeds ! too.


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