Author Topic: 1955-1957 design over the pond (Read 5770 times)

Jim Pollock · « **on:** April 01, 2009, 09:54:48 AM »

Thanks to Neville Legg we have some interesting designs from our neighbors in England.
The first I will post here is the Thunderbolt designed by Bill Morley. I believe the wing span on the Thunderbolt is
48" since the Skiffler is 47" on the 5-1 scale plans in the magazine the Skiffler's wingspan is 9.375 inches. If you measure the T-Bolt you come up with 9.5 inches - so that's where I get the approximate span from?
Below is the Thunderbolt by Bill Morley.

rustler · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2009, 01:45:02 PM »

Bill Morley is the man who first had the idea of a competitive British stunt engine. The result was Merco, see Merco history on Dave Day's web site, <www.iroquois.free-online.co.uk>. Hence for a truly classic combo, Thunderbolt/Merco 29.
Bill placed 2nd. in the 59?/60? Gold Trophy, with a Mercury Crusader/Merco 35, the engine's first outing.
(Or, digressing, if you'd like a Brit. equivalent of the Foxberg event, try Merc/Merc, - Mercury Viper/Merco29/35).

Neville Legg · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2009, 02:41:36 PM »

The early (1960's) Merco's seemed to have more power and smoother run than the later models.
I have 3 of the Red/orange headed 35's and an un-run 29, the compression seal after all those years is fantastic! They only suffer from a small amount of con-rod wear.

Cheers Neville

Geoff Goodworth · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2009, 09:31:08 PM »

Jim

According to the Aeromodeller Plans Handbook 1990/91, the span is 48 3/4.

Cheers, Geoff

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2009, 04:35:40 PM »

The rest of the article!

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2009, 05:03:11 PM »

Skiffler Plan,

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2009, 05:04:52 PM »

Skiffler article...

Brett Buck · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2009, 06:53:02 PM »

Quote from: Jim Pollock on April 04, 2009, 05:04:52 PM

Skiffler article...

And that is that Dave Platt.

Brett

Neville Legg · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2009, 03:31:58 AM »

Yes it is the Dave Platt, of superb radio scale model designs, who now lives in your country, has done since 1968!

Cheers Neville

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2009, 09:55:57 PM »

Neville,

When I measure and then extrapolate the chord of the T-Bolt it comes out as 8 3/4"; it could be as much as 8 7/8" but I'm not sure how close the extrapolation is getting. Do you happen to know the Chord of the T-Bolt?

Thanks,

Jim Pollock

Neville Legg · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2009, 02:00:09 AM »

Jim, I take it you don't have the fullsize drawing? If you want a copy you can get one from WWW.MODEL-PLANS.co.uk. I'll dig out the magazine and have a measure for you.

Cheers Neville

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:28:33 PM »

Hello everyone,
Just got my plan of the Thunderbolt out and measured the chord. It is exactly 9 inchs, ignoring the tapering flap.
As Ian said, the combination of Merco 29 and the Thunderbolt is a real classic. Built my first on when I was 15 years old. It flew much better than I did! Forty eight years later, I am eying up the Thunderbolt again. Yes I still have the original orange head Merco 29. It still has great compression even after running it at peak rpm in my youth! Yes I didn't know any better in those days!

Regards,

Andrew.

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #12 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:51:45 PM »

Thanks Andrew,

I thought that could very well be the case since the 1/5 scale drawing in Aeromodeler is so very hard to see properly!

Jim Pollock

Neville Legg · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2009, 10:41:27 AM »

Andrew,

I have a Merco 29, which has a red/orange head. I have just restored a 35 from 1960, that had hardly any colour left on the head, I found some Carplan Fire Red high temperature spray paint for car exhausts which matched the 29 perfectly. My question is, is your Merco orange or red/orange? someone told me that the early Mercos had proper orange coloured heads! I'll try and post a picture of my restored 35.

Cheers Neville

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2009, 08:23:50 PM »

My favorite models from across the pond are John Coasbys Taurus and Icarus. I like big planes with big motors. On the Taurus plans John said he flew it on 100' lines with I believe a McCoy 60 or equivalent. I have not tried that yet. 65' with a tamed down Anderson Spitfire is good enough for me.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #15 on:** April 21, 2009, 08:50:12 PM »

Oops! These are old time.

Neville Legg · « **Reply #16 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:58:26 PM »

Don't matter, its all aeromodelling!

Cheers Neville

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2009, 02:23:33 PM »

I agree Jim!

These definitely are the good old times!

Jim Pollock

Neville Legg · « **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:27:27 AM »

Jim,
Did I send you some small stunter plans from the 50's and 60's from the UK? I wonder if they could be useful in the other thread?

Cheers Neville

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2009, 10:51:35 AM »

Hello Neville,
I have just reread this thread after many months. Didn't see your question about about the Merco head colour. Mine was a very early Merco 29 and the head was bright orange. Unfortunately I ran it peaked out in those days just like a diesel (it was my first glow engine). The bright orange turned to a sticky brown mess after this maltreatment. So I just scraped it off! Still have the 29 and it still has excellent compression and doesn't seem to have suffered mechanically. It still gives the famed Merco 4-2-4 run and it is now mounted in a Morely Thunderbolt, after being on the nose of a Calamity Jane for....let me see....43 years! That combo was an excellent stunt plane. Only ever crashed it twice in all that time. It is now 3rd in line for a rebuild. Hope to have it flying again next year.
If you see this belated reply, have you come across a bright orange paint that I can use on my 29 to make it look a little more authentic?

Regards,

Andrew.

Neville Legg · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2009, 04:14:06 AM »

Andrew,

I hope this photo works! The 35 on the left is the one I restored, the 29 on the right is going to be cleaned and re-done!
As you can see the red/orange is a very good match!

Cheers Neville

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2009, 02:11:35 PM »

Neville,
Looks a nice job, a very good match as far as I can tell from your photo. It seems to be in line with the red heads from the first series. My 29 must have been one of the first to hit the LHS. It was definitely a bright orange, with perhaps a hint of yellow. I should have a photo somewhere, but don't hold your breath! Have been hunting for a .61 or photo of same for Ian Russell (hope I got that right Ian). Its an oddity that I think Ian is somewhat dubious about (probably thinks I am having a senile moment). I shall look out for the orange head when hunting for the 61 photo. The real problem is that I have many thousands of images and they are either black and white prints or coloured slides. I shall get there!

Regards,

Andrew.

Shultzie · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2009, 09:43:05 PM »

Quote from: Neville Legg on June 28, 2009, 04:14:06 AM

Andrew,

I hope this photo works! The 35 on the left is the one I restored, the 29 on the right is going to be cleaned and re-done!
As you can see the red/orange is a very good match!

Cheers Neville

Wow! What memories of my old Merco 35's that I used in my 3 Sting Rays from 1967 to 1969. Take note of that rather large intake. For those light weight Gialdini StingRays...I restricted the intakes on Bob G's suggestion and what sweet engine runs...Starting those Merco's I always had consistant start ups....by "flipping those old 10-5 and 6 EWs BACKWARDS.
For some reason...my fuel and plug combinations those Mercos would tend to back-fire and run backwards for a few seconds and then would "POP" and reverse itself into normal counter clockwise flying mode. If you didn't take care in really tightening those old Froom Spinners and prop extentions, at the damnest' times, would part ways with the model due to the stress when the engine would return from its backassward start...into the normal counter clockwise running pattern.
It didnt take to long to remedy this problemo'
. All you had to do was to simply FLIP THE PROP the prop CLOCK WISE...those Mercos would instantly re-fire the right direction instantly.
I used 4 Merco's over those years....and had that same weird starting procedure problem with all of them. Folks kept telling me to reposition the propeller position. However that didn't seem to help much either.
Also by restricting those Mercos....I only neede a tad under 3.5 ounces of fuel for a pattern which kept the fuel and tank weight to a minimummumummmmmm!

Neville Legg · « **Reply #23 on:** June 29, 2009, 12:30:44 AM »

These early Mercos were the best, the models that came along later, black head versions got Merco a bad name here! Every member of my club that owned one doesn't have a good word to say for them!!!
From your comments Andrew, I take it that there was another orange colour on the very early versions?

Cheers Neville

rustler · « **Reply #24 on:** June 29, 2009, 01:43:01 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Tinsley on June 28, 2009, 02:11:35 PM

Neville, Its an oddity that I think Ian is somewhat dubious about Andrew.

Remind me what this engine is/maybe Andrew? If it's what I recall from corres. I really doubt it exists.

Neville Legg · « **Reply #25 on:** June 29, 2009, 03:32:18 PM »

Mr Shultzie sir !!

Can you remember what size restrictor you used on your Merco's

Cheers Neville

Shultzie · « **Reply #26 on:** June 29, 2009, 05:52:23 PM »

Quote from: Neville Legg on June 29, 2009, 03:32:18 PM

Mr Shultzie sir !!

Can you remember what size restrictor you used on your Merco's

Cheers Neville

I was afraid someone would ask me about that? In those daze days...I used OS, K&B 35-45 and McCoy 40 engines...and also had a drawer with a bunch of old engine parts...that included a BATCH of various restrictors made of of all kinds of tubing. I often would just use telescoping tubing and toy with them...but I hate to share the real way I tinkered with engines..but I am really ashamed at how I often worked out my restriction methods...that I learned from George Lieb.
I would "whittle down either a piece of tapered wood from a cloths pin and "jam fit it into the engine intake...put in a practice flight...checking both for performance and length of engine run until I found one size that I liked.
Another thing: My Mercos seem to LOVE TESTORS 39 plus I had an AQUIRED TASTE AND SMELL FOR TESTORS 39 FUEL...plus most of my successful flights were always with TESTORS 39 and FOX IDLE BAR PLUGS
(again...I was always getting RAZZZZZED AND TEASED about my poor choices in plugs and fuels.

Neville Legg · « **Reply #27 on:** June 30, 2009, 10:55:48 AM »

In the mid to late 60's I was only a teenager, and didn't have a clue! (still don't!)

I built the models that took my fancy, and probably not the the best flying models either! Nobody in my area flew stunt competitively, so all my ideas and info. came from the Aeromodeller or Flying Models mags! I didn't have a clue about trimming, if it flew straight on the first flight I was happy! I never achieved consistant engines runs. In those days I could only afford straight fuel, nitro was far too expensive! I was very disappointed when I got my first Fox 35 in '69 it wasn't as good as the OS I'd been using. I stuck it in a Sheeks Spitfire, and before it had even flown someone stepped on the tail and broke it!

I had a few flights after it was repaired, then something gave way in the controls and that was that!! The British Champs of the day all used Merco's, so I don't know why I never went with one? I must have been seduced by reading all those articles in FM, where all the designs used a Fox!! I still have that Fox in its original box. I'm about to try my first C/L 4 stroke stunter in the next month or so, should be interesting? Are you still allowed to use those needle nosed spinners in the US? I believe they've been banned over here!!

Cheers Neville

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2009, 12:26:10 PM »

Hi Ian,
Its what I called the Mk1.5 Merco 61. It had the straight through circular casting (extension of the lower back plate screw housing) as seen on the Mk2 beefed up crankcase casting and the upper backplate screw housing as on the Mk1. I had one and I saw two in marine format, maybe more, but certainly two at the same time!
I never thought much about it at the time, only many years later! I found the carcase of a fuselage in my loft which I thought had said Merco in it. Sadly it was a Mk 1, I did sell some of my 61 s a long time ago and I fear that it was one of those that was the fabled Mk 1.5! While up in the loft, I found much of my old photographic collection. I am sure that I have a photo or two of the Mk 1.5 and I am now wading my way through the last 40 years worth of photos!
If I had realised it was a bit of a special, maybe I would have taken more care of it. I took the trouble to read the Merco history on Dave Day's website. I found that the reason for going from the Mk1 to the Mk2 was to reduce vibration by adding mass (not necessarily the correct solution!). It could be that this beefing up was done in two stages and hence the Mk 1.5? It could be that a few of the 1.5 s escaped captivity. The known 3 were all purchased from the same LHS within a few weeks of each other.
I am confident that I should turn up photographic evidence, I never throw anything away!

Regards,

Andrew.

rustler · « **Reply #29 on:** June 30, 2009, 01:56:19 PM »

A.O.K. Andrew. Let us know when you find it.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #30 on:** July 02, 2009, 04:24:52 PM »

Checked with the person on da bay about the Thunderbolt II. Sent money via Paypal and got the short kit and plans Yesterday. It is a great looking short kit and the plans are great also. Next winters project if nothing interfears. DOC Holliday

Neville Legg · « **Reply #31 on:** July 03, 2009, 03:02:52 PM »

Doc,
Is that the Morely T/bolt? Is the name of the people supplying it Replikit? Sorry for all the questions.

Cheers Neville

john e. holliday · « **Reply #32 on:** July 04, 2009, 10:24:14 AM »

The box is marked, "Bill Morley's Thunderbolt", a laser cut short kit by Old School Model Aeroplane Factory. Includes full size plans and landing gear. Next winters project. Reminds me of the Smoothie. DOC Holliday

PS:Wingspan is 49 inches. jeh

rustler · « **Reply #33 on:** July 04, 2009, 03:12:11 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday .......about the Thunderbolt II. DOC Holliday [/quote

Hi Doc. T'bolt II? Not sure about the "II". I'm only aware of "I". Can you confirm? I spoke to Bill Morley recently, and can check any query with him.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #34 on:** July 04, 2009, 08:14:46 PM »

"Reminds me of the Smoothie. DOC Holliday"

I was thinking that it resembled the Pow Wow quite a lot, except for the "Malcom hood" on the Pow Wow. Does anybody build them that way? This one at VSC 19 knocked my sox off! I wish I knew who built it...very tasteful color combinations and beautiful graphics.

Steve

Neville Legg · « **Reply #35 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:55:13 AM »

Doc sir! Where on ebay did you see the Morley T/bolt kit for sale?

Cheers Neville

john e. holliday · « **Reply #36 on:** July 06, 2009, 08:03:41 AM »

Go to ebay dot co dot uk . Then search 320382945821 . Shows there are 5+ days left and 6 kits available. Good luck. DOC Holliday

Bill Little · « **Reply #37 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:28:29 PM »

Quote from: Neville Legg on June 29, 2009, 12:30:44 AM

These early Mercos were the best, the models that came along later, black head versions got Merco a bad name here! Every member of my club that owned one doesn't have a good word to say for them!!!
From your comments Andrew, I take it that there was another orange colour on the very early versions?

Cheers Neville

HI Neville,

Please check your PMs.

Thanks!
Bill Little