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Design => Stunt design => Topic started by: Clint Ormosen on March 16, 2007, 11:30:32 PM
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What would it take to design a somewhat pattern worthy Cessna 150 Aerobat. I dig the common look of modern civil avation. It would really be something different on the circle. I've been thinking about this plane for years now, but there are obvious problems to overcome. Any ideas. Has this been tried?
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You might look at this for a starting point, the plan is from Barry Baxter .
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This is probably better. I don't remember where I got this, but check the designer in the upper corner. Well, there isn't enough detail, but it is Ted Goyet and Bob Palmer. Should fly OK, I would think. This one is scaled for a Fox 19, but? I'lll email you a much better file if you would like.
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I remember seeing an article and plans for a Decathlon or Citabria (forget which). They both have very similar aerodynamics to a Cessna 150. I think it may have been a Jack Sheeks design? I could be way off, but someone has to know more. I also believe the article said it was capable of the entire pattern. I like this idea.
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Russell, is that first one a Dick Sarpolus design? It looks like it. Both of those might be a good place to start. I'm thinking about a semi scale, full fuse model of about 550-570 sq in for a .40. I know the high wing is going to present some CG problems, but this model does does not need to compete with the Infinity. But maybe give a Twister a run for the money. ;)
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Mike, maybe when the VSC is over, someone will chime in on those designs you mentioned. Someone must know how to make this work.
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Hi Guys,
The creator of the Citabria was the most famous resident of "Snider Swamp" one "Fast Richard", aka Dick Mathis and it was published in Flying Models in April, 1973.
I is also worth noting that Mike Garmon in March,1997 of Flying Models published a larger size high-wing stunter that could be dressed up as a Cub or Citabria.
Mike was a great guy who is no longer with us but hopefully his flying buddy Willis Swindell could chime in and tell us how Mike's plane flew.
It could be that Dick Sarpolus also did a high-wing stunter but I can't remember.
If you are interested in stunters based on civilian aircraft but not just high-wing designs ther are several low-wing stunt design published.
Dick Mathis, published in Flying Models a profile Piper Cherokee Sept, 1967 and a sport/stunt Ercoupe in June, 1974. Jim Young In Model Airplane News
did a Bellanca stunter but I'm not sure of the details.
I'm sure there are other designs out ther but I just don't remember.
Hope this helps,
Till next time.
Pat Robinson
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Thanks Pat! Any info I can gather is welcomed.
I'm have a half built Cherokee in the shop. It's not very big and it's profile, but it does look like what you might see at your local airfield.
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Dick Mathis on the first one, from 1974
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Dick Mathis on the first one, from 1974
Oh yeah, I got my dicks confused. ;D
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Oh yeah, I got my dicks confused. ;D
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :o :o :o :o
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How about a semi-scale stunt version of a low-wing civilian aircraft?
By the way, it's a great little flyer.
Bob Z.
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Clint
Mike Garmon built a Cub and a Citabria and was published in Flying Models. He used an up right engine to help the vertical CG even won a few contest in intermediate with it I have the Cub up in the attic.
Willis ;D y1
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Bob Z's Cherokee, post #11 here.
A very impressive model, on the ground and in the air. We saw it, thought he was going to fun fly a scale ship in circles until the wingover and following maneuvers!
Worth considering!
Roger V.
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Bob I like it. Do you have plans? What is the power? does that wing have dihedral? What does it weigh? Will it do the whole pattern? What's the wing area? Does it come in Blue?
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Clint
Mike Garmon built a Cub and a Citabria and was published in Flying Models. He used an up right engine to help the vertical CG even won a few contest in intermediate with it I have the Cub up in the attic.
Willis ;D y1
Any way I could persuade you to drag out and photograph said Cub?
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Clint wrote: "Bob I like it. Do you have plans? What is the power? does that wing have dihedral? What does it weigh? Will it do the whole pattern? What's the wing area? Does it come in Blue?"
Hi, Clint - thanks for your interest in my project.
Plans? I HAD some but the company I used to work for kindly deleted the entire autoCad file - All lost. >:( >:(
Power? SAITO .30
Dihedral? Yes, about 1 inch on each tip.
Weight? Around 42 ounces.
Pattern? Yes, and a very good patten at that. Many who have seen it fly say I should enter it in Expert stunt - I plan to. #^ #^
Wing area is around 550.
Blue? Sorry - only yellow, pink or purple!!!!! ;)
It also has a throttle and wheel brakes. After my pattern, I cut the engine to idle, land it motor running and stop in front of the judges.
Then, the engine stops by itself.
Bob Z.
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Bob, it has 3 line control? ???
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Hi, Clint. The throttle is controlled by a little R/C system from a toy car (27 Mhz).
It runs open loop and the control is sufficient.
Bob Z.
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Clint,
The first rule of stunt design is that the leadout exit MUST line up with the vertical CG. This means that high wing designs are somewhat handicapped to begin with. If the leadouts shown on the plans don't exit at the Vertical CG, then the airplane is a sport ship at best. They will fly with different banked in upright and bamked out inverted because the deadouts WILL line up with the vertical CG in flight. You can't fool Mother Nature.
Having said all the above, If I really wanted to build a Cessna 150 and paint it like the family 150 I used to teach my kids to fly, I'd build one. there is no real reason why a semi-scale high wing stunt ship can't be competitive. One simply has to make a leadout exit on some kind of a mount hanging down from the inboard wing tip. It could be made of wire and largely inconspicuous but should also be adjustable. Dihedral has minimal effect on stunt capable as long as the physics are considered.
Al
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Reg Towell did a Comanche, that he says flew well,
The Bellana is 'worth a look' ,
Cant harm seeing how other people approach the problem.
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Clint,
The first rule of stunt design is that the leadout exit MUST line up with the vertical CG. This means that high wing designs are somewhat handicapped to begin with. If the leadouts shown on the plans don't exit at the Vertical CG, then the airplane is a sport ship at best. They will fly with different banked in upright and banked out inverted because the deadouts WILL line up with the vertical CG in flight. You can't fool Mother Nature.
Having said all the above, If I really wanted to build a Cessna 150 and paint it like the family 150 I used to teach my kids to fly, I'd build one. there is no real reason why a semi-scale high wing stunt ship can't be competitive. One simply has to make a leadout exit on some kind of a mount hanging down from the inboard wing tip. It could be made of wire and largely inconspicuous but should also be adjustable. Dihedral has minimal effect on stunt capable as long as the physics are considered.
Al
I REALLY want to do this. I'm going to scale up the plans of a Small FF stick and tissue 150 to get the fuse and tail to look right. Then, I'll design my stuntable wing as close to scale as possible. The 150/152 wing trailing edge is swept forward at about the halfway out point, leaving a pretty thin chord at the tips. I don't think that will work very well on a stunter so I think the wing will be almost a constant chord.
I had planned to have the leadouts hang below the wing for the vertical CG issue. Although I hate the way that looks, I can't see having them come out of the wing tip and having it fly worth a darn.
Paint job will be classic Cessna 150 Aerobat complete with checkered tail.
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Clint, would it look like this?
Here are more picks of this plane here:
http://www.eagle1aviation.net/1976%20Cessna%20150%20Aerobat.htm
Robert
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EXACTLY!!. Thanks Robert for that site. Bookmarked for future use.
Now, wouldn't that make a COOL C/L stunter?