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Author Topic: 150 Aerobat  (Read 2165 times)

Offline Clint Ormosen

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150 Aerobat
« on: March 16, 2007, 11:30:32 PM »
What would it take to design a somewhat pattern worthy Cessna 150 Aerobat. I dig the common look of modern civil avation. It would really be something different on the circle. I've been thinking about this plane for years now, but there are obvious problems to overcome. Any ideas. Has this been tried?
-Clint-

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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2007, 10:07:56 AM »
You might look at this for a starting point, the plan is from Barry Baxter .
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2007, 10:24:47 AM »
This is probably better.  I don't remember where I got this, but check the designer in the upper corner. Well, there isn't enough detail, but it is Ted Goyet and Bob Palmer.  Should fly OK, I would think.  This one is scaled for a Fox 19, but?  I'lll email you a much better file if you would like. 
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Mike Palko

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 11:12:57 AM »
I remember seeing an article and plans for a Decathlon or Citabria (forget which). They both have very similar aerodynamics to a Cessna 150. I think it may have been a Jack Sheeks design? I could be way off, but someone has to know more. I also believe the article said it was capable of the entire pattern. I like this idea.

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 12:29:58 PM »
Russell, is that first one a Dick Sarpolus design? It looks like it. Both of those might be a good place to start. I'm thinking about a semi scale, full fuse model of about 550-570 sq in for a .40. I know the high wing is going to present some CG problems, but this model does does not need to compete with the Infinity. But maybe give a Twister a run for the money. ;)
-Clint-

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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 12:39:53 PM »
Mike, maybe when the VSC is over, someone will chime in on those designs you mentioned. Someone must know how to make this work.
-Clint-

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Offline PatRobinson

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 01:25:18 PM »
Hi Guys,
The creator of the Citabria was the most famous resident of "Snider Swamp" one "Fast Richard", aka Dick Mathis and it was published in Flying Models in April, 1973.
I is also  worth noting that Mike Garmon in March,1997 of Flying Models published a larger size high-wing stunter that could be dressed up as a Cub or Citabria.
Mike was a great guy who is no longer with us but hopefully his flying buddy Willis Swindell could chime in and tell us how Mike's plane flew.

It could be that Dick Sarpolus also did a high-wing stunter but I can't remember.

If you are interested in stunters based on civilian aircraft but not just high-wing designs ther are several low-wing stunt design published.
Dick Mathis, published in Flying Models a profile Piper Cherokee Sept, 1967 and a sport/stunt Ercoupe in June, 1974.  Jim Young In Model Airplane News
did a Bellanca stunter but I'm not sure of the details.

I'm sure there are other designs out ther but I just don't remember.
                                                 Hope this helps,
                                                    Till next time.
                                                      Pat Robinson

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2007, 01:41:40 PM »
Thanks Pat! Any info I can gather is welcomed.
I'm have a half built Cherokee in the shop. It's not very big and it's profile, but it does look like what you might see at your local airfield.
-Clint-

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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2007, 03:44:47 PM »
Dick Mathis on the first one, from 1974
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 09:59:04 PM »
Dick Mathis on the first one, from 1974

Oh yeah, I got my dicks confused. ;D
-Clint-

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Offline Bill Little

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2007, 10:20:56 PM »
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 09:28:55 AM »
How about a semi-scale stunt version of a low-wing civilian aircraft?

By the way, it's a great little flyer.

Bob Z.

Willis Swindell

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2007, 10:04:21 AM »
Clint
Mike Garmon built a Cub and a Citabria and was published in Flying Models. He used an up right engine to help the vertical CG even won a few contest in intermediate with it  I have the Cub up in the attic.
Willis  ;D y1

Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2007, 12:41:44 PM »
Bob Z's Cherokee, post #11 here.
A very impressive model, on the ground and in the air. We saw it, thought he was going to fun fly a scale ship in circles until the wingover and following maneuvers!
Worth considering!
Roger V.
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 10:47:35 PM »
Bob I like it. Do you have plans? What is the power? does that wing have dihedral? What does it weigh? Will it do the whole pattern? What's the wing area? Does it come in Blue?
-Clint-

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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 10:50:24 PM »
Clint
Mike Garmon built a Cub and a Citabria and was published in Flying Models. He used an up right engine to help the vertical CG even won a few contest in intermediate with it  I have the Cub up in the attic.
Willis  ;D y1

Any way I could persuade you to drag out and photograph said Cub?
-Clint-

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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2007, 06:41:18 AM »
Clint wrote: "Bob I like it. Do you have plans? What is the power? does that wing have dihedral? What does it weigh? Will it do the whole pattern? What's the wing area? Does it come in Blue?"

Hi, Clint - thanks for your interest in my project.

Plans? I HAD some but the company I used to work for kindly deleted the entire autoCad file - All lost.  >:( >:(
Power? SAITO .30
Dihedral? Yes, about 1 inch on each tip.
Weight? Around 42 ounces.
Pattern? Yes, and a very good patten at that. Many who have seen it fly say I should enter it in Expert stunt - I plan to.  #^ #^
Wing area is around 550.
Blue? Sorry - only yellow, pink or purple!!!!!  ;)


It also has a throttle and wheel brakes. After my pattern, I cut the engine to idle, land it motor running and stop in front of the judges. 
Then, the engine stops by itself.

Bob Z.





Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 03:28:24 PM »
Bob, it has 3 line control? ???
-Clint-

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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2007, 01:09:46 PM »
Hi, Clint. The throttle is controlled by a little R/C system from a toy car (27 Mhz).

It runs open loop and the control is sufficient.

Bob Z.

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2007, 09:39:46 AM »
Clint,

The first rule of stunt design is that the leadout exit MUST line up with the vertical CG.  This means that high wing designs are somewhat handicapped to begin with.  If the leadouts shown on the plans don't exit at the Vertical CG, then the airplane is a sport ship at best.  They will fly with different banked in upright and bamked out inverted because the deadouts WILL line up with the vertical CG in flight.  You can't fool Mother Nature.

Having said all the above, If I really wanted to build a Cessna 150 and paint it like the family 150 I used to teach my kids to fly, I'd build one.  there is no real reason why a semi-scale high wing stunt ship can't be competitive.  One simply has to make a leadout exit on some kind of a mount hanging down from the inboard wing tip.  It could be made of wire and largely inconspicuous but should also be adjustable.  Dihedral has minimal effect on stunt capable as long as the physics are considered. 

Al

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2007, 07:41:30 PM »

  Reg Towell did a Comanche, that he says flew well,

  The Bellana is 'worth a look' ,

 Cant harm seeing how other people approach the problem.

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2007, 09:35:03 PM »
Clint,

The first rule of stunt design is that the leadout exit MUST line up with the vertical CG.  This means that high wing designs are somewhat handicapped to begin with.  If the leadouts shown on the plans don't exit at the Vertical CG, then the airplane is a sport ship at best.  They will fly with different banked in upright and banked out inverted because the deadouts WILL line up with the vertical CG in flight.  You can't fool Mother Nature.

Having said all the above, If I really wanted to build a Cessna 150 and paint it like the family 150 I used to teach my kids to fly, I'd build one.  there is no real reason why a semi-scale high wing stunt ship can't be competitive.  One simply has to make a leadout exit on some kind of a mount hanging down from the inboard wing tip.  It could be made of wire and largely inconspicuous but should also be adjustable.  Dihedral has minimal effect on stunt capable as long as the physics are considered. 

Al

I REALLY want to do this. I'm going to scale up the plans of a Small FF stick and tissue 150 to get the fuse and tail to look right. Then, I'll design my stuntable wing as close to scale as possible. The 150/152 wing trailing edge is swept forward at about the halfway out point, leaving a pretty thin chord at the tips. I don't think that will work very well on a stunter so I think the wing will be almost a constant chord.
I had planned to have the leadouts hang below the wing for the vertical CG issue. Although I hate the way that looks, I can't see having them come out of the wing tip and having it fly worth a darn.
Paint job will be classic Cessna 150 Aerobat complete with checkered tail.
-Clint-

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Offline Robert McHam

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2007, 10:04:47 PM »
Clint, would it look like this?

Here are more picks of this plane here:
http://www.eagle1aviation.net/1976%20Cessna%20150%20Aerobat.htm

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: 150 Aerobat
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2007, 10:49:44 PM »
EXACTLY!!. Thanks Robert for that site. Bookmarked for future use.

Now, wouldn't that make a COOL C/L stunter?
-Clint-

AMA 559593
Finding new and innovated ways to screw up the pattern since 1993


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