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  • July 21, 2017, 02:48:46 PM

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Author Topic: starting on perky  (Read 3126 times)

Offline Steve Schoenecker

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starting on perky
« on: March 03, 2017, 09:36:09 PM »
I am starting on my first Perky... Built the wing .... Will use silkspan, I think.   Not much room for the bellcrank in the wing... Thinking about under wing...

 Hope it is OK to widen the engine mounts... And lengthen the nose about 3\8" to fit engine.   I have a ST G15 RV ... Need more room at the back of the motor. 

Using plans from AMA plan svc.

How much fuel should I plan for?

Should be fun

Steve
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Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 07:05:21 AM »
Yer ok so long as the outside dimensions are the same.  Try not to lengthen the nose. Shorter venturi? Move firewall back? Get the tank on top of the beams. Maybe someone has built a RI Perky?  TS

Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 10:02:19 PM »
I was able to move the firewall back a bit... I can notch the LE of the wing... I will chop off the extra length I put on the nose.  Not sure where the tank will go... I have a couple of small wedge tanks and a very small clunk tank...  we will see as it progresses. 

I mounted the bellcrank platform on top of the engine mounts... Should be very strong... it will sit right below the wing.

CT, thanks for suggesting moving the firewall... 

steve
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Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2017, 06:07:14 AM »
PS,   .75oz tank is plenty.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2017, 08:54:43 AM »
In my opinion, outdoor leadouts are the way to go.  Then you can move the guide if you need to.  The elliptical wing makes it hard to get them inside.  
Indoor leadouts are a lot of work to bury 9" of wire.

I always end up making a new tank to fit the plane.  You can let the tank be part of the outside skin of the fuselage if you want.
Paul Smith

Offline bob whitney

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2017, 11:28:45 AM »

 tell the F2A guys that leadouts arent Drag
rad racer

Offline bob whitney

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2017, 11:32:42 AM »

lines are removed close to fuse fore stronger wing
rad racer

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2017, 12:02:46 PM »
OK.

Hiding 50" of lines at 200 MPH is one thing.
9" at 110 is another.
F2A designers can move the wing to optimum position. 
Perky builders need to stick to the plan.  In my opinion, any position inside the wing is too far back.
Paul Smith

Offline Motorman

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2017, 01:36:08 PM »
This is why we race, to see who's right!


MM
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2017, 03:02:26 PM »
Very true.

Do your best within the limits.
Paul Smith

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 06:27:35 AM »
Steve, A couple of PS's. make sure the wheels are an inch or so further ahead of where the plans show. Make the tailskid long enough to create a slightly positive incidence on the ground. Maybe you can arrange the intake to the 'low' position and move the tank forward. It will gravity feed so care on the ground will be important but will also allow for a larger venturi.  T

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 06:59:21 AM »
tell the F2A guys that leadouts arent Drag

Billcrank on top,,,,,,,velly inter-resting,,,,
Paul Smith

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 07:53:54 AM »
PPS,   1oz. tip weight

Offline bob whitney

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 03:59:25 PM »


 if anyone is interested I can pop my perky apart and show whats in side and how it is built . the only special part is the F2C bellcrank, which makes it easy to mount an run leadouts through the wing and keep it strong
rad racer

Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 09:39:23 PM »
I guess I will try to make a custom tank.  It may fit in front of the firewall, behind the engine.   I have ordered some balsa blocks.  We'll  see how everything fits.  Have learned a lot on this one...  Not sure what to do about the spinner.... Mine is 1 1/8"   looks like rules call for 1 1/2. Or 1 3/4".  I have a dubro 1 3/4 spinner... But the thrust washer (which is the backplate for the stock spinner) is too big to work with the dubro spinner.

I don't know when the last time I have built something like this. .. Maybe Guillows??  :-)  The fuselage is really strong and stiff.

Thanks for reminding me about the tip weight

Steve
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 06:20:57 AM »
The spinner is usually a problem.  True Turn spinners and hardware are often a solution for high-powered engines.  
For lower power there are several 1-1/2" plastic spinners on the market.
The smaller Nelson spinner is not legal.  The True Turn is on the model.
Also shown is the wood form used to fit the tank.
It's not a magnesium speed pan.  Just a balsa bottom painted silver.  The pan-rat construction makes it easier to service.
Paul Smith

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 07:02:21 AM »
Fox made 1 1/2 spinners. I just got one on ebay. There are also some Chinese ones out there. adapter nuts from Tru Turn. If you need the non-spinner prop drive someone out here can help. Maybe even me!  TS

Offline Motorman

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 10:50:00 AM »
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline bob whitney

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 02:34:39 PM »


  Plenty of room
rad racer

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2017, 10:56:07 AM »
Bob,
That looks like a coffin style tank turned on it's side? Where is the fuel pickup located in this tank?

Best,    DennisT

Offline Motorman

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2017, 12:31:33 PM »
I'm sure that tank has been re- plumbed to have the pick up on the outside rear corner and the vent at the outside front corner.

MM
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline bob whitney

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2017, 10:23:43 AM »


  Motorman is right .it was a 1 oz coffin tank that I had, /it was too tall to fit so laird it side ways ,the tapered top gave me room to add the tubes and not need for them to stick out past the front of the tank. the engine feed tube go's to the outer bottom and the uniflow tube go's to the outer top corner of the wedge. tank is filled like an F2A  with no over flow tube







rad racer

Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2017, 11:36:53 AM »
Made my fuel tank.... it goes behind the firewall.  I made it uniflo...with the uniflo vent and the overflow sticking out the left side... uniflo vent is bent forward to catch some wind.  Fuel line comes through the firewall....

Need to figure out the spinner problem before I can start shaping the cowl area...

I will post some pics when I get back home... a couple of days.
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Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2017, 07:37:06 PM »
I am ready to think about leadouts...  I see that the lines must be .014 solid... what about leadouts?  braided OK?  I have .027 braided and .018 braided I could use.  One of these OK?  or do I have to use solid?  I have the top cowl fitted to engine etc...  My engine has an elbow that can connect to a pipe... should be able to mount it to direct exhaust away from the cowl, right?  A little slow, but getting there.
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2017, 06:37:07 AM »
No leadouts is the preferred setup.

But if you use them I would go with .016" solids.  My rule-of-thumb is one grade above the flying lines for leadouts.
On a stunter where you want to fly hundreds of practice flights, .027" stranded is good idea. 

For a Perky beginner, a good idea might be to use leadouts and existing .015" 52' stranded Clown Race lines.  Then, if all goes well, convert to .014" solids to compete.
Paul Smith

Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2017, 08:43:14 PM »
Thanks Paul,

You made me think.  I mounted the bellcrank under the wing...  I cut some small oval shaped holes to allow leadouts to exit...  if I made the holes a little larger, I believe I could hook lines to buttons on the bellcrank ...  I reread Bill Bischoff's construction article for Margaret June... I can make some buttons like he shows.  I still have to make a line guide for the wing tip either way...  I think I will try this.  I think this is a GREAT idea!!  I think I even have some .015 x 52 braided lines...  I haven't ordered the .014 solids yet...

thanks again


steve

 
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Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2017, 11:12:41 AM »
For first Perky, is kit from Black hawk  or scratch build from plans a better choice? Does plan have any patterns? Thx.
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Online john e. holliday

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2017, 12:25:38 PM »
I hate to say it , but go with the plans.  I have a set that Larry Marx made on the 'Brotherhood of the Ring' forum.   A search should turn them.  Maybe if I wasn't so lazy I would go find the link and post it.

Found it on the Brotherhood of the Ring forum -  Construction Discussion - Building Projects - Perky 2.0 Project    by Larry Marx.
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Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2017, 01:23:36 PM »
i have been in contact with Larry and he sent me plans. They just arrived in yesterdays mail, in time for Fathers Day! Great Fathers Day gift! Now need to figure out option for an engine, and what to do for bellcrank and a tank, and wheels.  I have a tank that was to be used in an A speed project, so that might fit, especially if i turn it on its side like Bob W did.
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 06:28:39 PM »
Getting there

Back to leadouts....  the way the bellcrank is mounted... I can't get to it very easily....  I put some scissor line clips on it so I can attach lines....  with my adjustable leadout guide ( several holes) I back to debating about leadouts again.  Either make leadouts and have adjustable line rake.. or redesign the leadout guide??? 

If I do make leadouts... would .018 braided wire be ok?  I also have some .027... overkill?  I have received my bulk .014 solid lines so I have decide on leadout guide/leadouts before I make  up the lines....

Waiting for wheel collars... I am a little nose heavy...will have to work on CG

What about Props?  The Prop in the picture is a rev-up 6-8.... probably way too much??  any ideas?

waiting for paint to cure... need to wet sand a little and spray clear.... Guess I need numbers too....

Thanks...Steve
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Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2017, 07:10:12 PM »
Fuel tank is behind the firewall... under the engine mounts (under the bellcrank)... I really hope I don't have trouble feeding fuel!  This picture shows the tank location, bellcrank clips and access holes...  and the leadout guide....  I plan to use brass eyelets in the holes with lines.

16.1 oz now...  leadouts, wheel collars, clear finish and tail weight will add a little more

I bought a cox conquest off of ebay...  If I build another one... it should be easier

steve
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Offline Motorman

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2017, 08:55:49 PM »
I would bend those wheels farther forward. Should be about 1-1/2" ahead of where the plans say. 1" prop clearance minimum. The lead out guide needs to be 3/4" ahead of the leading edge so you can get tether point 1/2" ahead of the LE. .027 lead outs are a good size. Prop you want is about 6-6.

MM
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Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2017, 07:24:06 AM »
Nice looking plane Steve. I agree with MM. The 'plan' LG location will allow nose over and back flips on landing. My original has many scrapes. .018 ng. Use the .027 or, ideally, .024 leadouts. You have at least 1oz. tipweight? Use .015 stranded lines for test flying. Much easier! Start with a safe leadout location for first flights and move forward one at a time. A couple of easy to obtain, cheap and pretty good props are the APC 6.5x5 and 6.3x4. I don't want to say for sure but I think your tank location may hold you back. You may have to restrict your venturi until it works. Try first. Get it running steady and needling well on the ground before hooking up the lines.
  We have a couple of club members with new and untried Perky's. Hopefully e will get them airborne this season! Good Luck,  TS

Offline Steve Schoenecker

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2017, 06:40:33 PM »
I have moved the landing gear forward.... Are you saying to set the CG forward of the location on the plans? Right now it balances about the front of the leading edge...  to get to the location on the plan... it will take about 1oz. in the tail...  I did use the .027 leadout wire.  I am going to spray some clear on it...  maybe I can go heavy on the aft half  :-)  I have an APC 7-6... maybe I can cut down to 6 or 6-1/2... The prop in the picture is 6-8....  probably too much pitch...

thanks

steve
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2017, 08:59:44 PM »
If you have a tachometer, be sure to prop for a minimum of 20,000 RPM for a start.  The props you mentioned are too much for a Conquest, or anything else.  You only need to run about 40 seconds.
Paul Smith

Offline Motorman

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Re: starting on perky
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2017, 09:37:30 PM »
That's an old SuperTiger cross flow on suction. you don't want to rev them too much. We use to run tornado 7-6 on those in GoodYear. Actually if you can get your hands on a 6-1/4x6 .21 sport speed prop that would be good.

MM
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.


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