stunthanger.com
Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Speed Talk => Topic started by: Paul Smith on July 24, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
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I have started a postal event for this year.
Please open the attached Excel spreadsheet.
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If you don't want to bother with the whole document, here's the quick-and-dirty,.
Place Name Speed Event
1 Al Ferraro 111.8 Brodak
2 Peter Lott 106.5 Brodak
3 C.T. Schaefer 105.0 Brodak
4 Bill Hughes 101.9 Nats
5 Carl Dodge 99.9 Nats
6 Bob Whitney 98.1 Brodak
7 Dave Hallas 96.5 Brodak
8 Paul Smith 95.7 Brodak
9 Patrick Hempel 90.0 Nats
10 John Moll 88.64 Nats
11 Dave Evar 83.7 Brodak
12 Price Reese 82.2 Brodak
13 Don Sopka 69.3 Brodak
14 Ken Towers 63.2 Brodak
The event is open until November 15, 2015. Please submit any improvements.
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#^ #^ Paul!! Paul!! Thank you!! This is great!! ;D Can I "play"?? ??? I built mine but I've had no occasion to really use them until now. So if I'm allowed to "play", I'm assuming the requirements will essentially be the same as published for Brodak:
Models, engines, lines, pull test and fuel will be per NASS Perky rules or Brodak Clown Race rules.
Lines must be .015 minimum stranded. Line length is 52' +/- 6" measured from the center of the plane to; the center of the handle.
Fuel will contain no more than 10% (by volume) nitro-methane and have a minimum 20 % oil (by volume) with the remaining being methanol.
A contestant may submit up to three 16-laps scores using one or more models.
An airframe and/or engine may be used by one contestant only.
Any flight that completes 16 laps from a standing start will result in an official score.
Scores will be posted in MPH to the tenth, computed by dividing the seconds into 3600.
Will any other documentation other than type or engine, i.e. photos or videos of the plane/flight be required? Once I have completed my flight, am I to enter my data onto the spreadsheet you've so graciously provided and send it back to you or just enter it on this thread? I really look forward to your reply. Thanks in advance!! :D
Jim Carter
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No problem. Just do 16 laps from a standing start and submit your data.
The line length is 52'-6" minimum with no negative tolerance. I'll take your word on the 10% nitro.
I just checked the NASS site.
9. The flying wires shall be 52’6’’ in length as measured from the center line of the fuselage to the center of the grip on the control handle. Only 2 wire control systems allowed.
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I just did 115 in my back yard does that count?
MM
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I just did 115 in my back yard does that count?
MM
Sure. All postal events involve the HONOR SYSTEM. You did what you say you did.
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Remember. Perky rules specify .014 solid lines only. That is the World Standard. We would like some of that backyard air!!
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:( Doggon'it!! I searched EBay "American Wire Products" and I haven't found any dadgum .014" solid wires :( Looks like this is gonna' be a show stopper for me .... I've got some 7 strand, 52' and some Spectra 52' but no .014" solids!! :'( I found some on the Brodak site for about $27 delivered to my door but at 66, on fixed income and the wife doing what she can to stretch the pennies daily, at this point in time, I just can't justify spending for something I'd probably never use again. Besides, I'm only using a stock Fox.15 and OS .15 that I've had in my cubby hole for nearly 30 years!! Oh well, ain't no need cheatin' if the rules call out for .014" solids. Sorry, it would have been fun to see how low I would have placed and skewed the really fast times :-\ !
Jim
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http://www.mbsmodelsupply.com/Catalog.pdf A set of .014 solid 60's goes for $5.10 from Melvin.
MBS has everything you need to fly your Perky or any other control line event. Shipping is actual cost
and you pay sales tax only if you live in Kansas.
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Remember. Perky rules specify .014 solid lines only. That is the World Standard. We would like some of that backyard air!!
Won't find any in the backyard! It's all behind the monitor! And it's all hot! LL~ LL~ LL~
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http://www.mbsmodelsupply.com/Catalog.pdf A set of .014 solid 60's goes for $5.10 from Melvin.
MBS has everything you need to fly your Perky or any other control line event. Shipping is actual cost
and you pay sales tax only if you live in Kansas.
Hey thanks Charlie! Very kind of you! I've bookmarked this page! Now to sweet talk the wife!! :)
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lol I was just yankin' Als chain, I don't even have a Perky.
MM
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Yes. We know. Why not build one. We will put it in our sanction next year. :!
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;) I LOVE MY WIFE!! That sweet little woman gave me permission to get a couple sets of the .014 solid lines and some thimbles so I can make up a couple sets of lines for my Perkys. I ordered the supplies from MBS as recommended and I was treated very kindly and patiently. I am very pleased with the service and support and I received the lines just a few days later. Now to get busy and rig them up for flying!! ;D
Jim
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I don't like the crimped thimbles. I like to use the old copper wire and solder method. I neutralize the flex with baking soda and water, then get rid of the water with WD-40.
In any case, comply with the 52'-6" minimum. This is SPEED, not combat or racing.
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Since soldering the wraps is only to prevent the wrap from unraveling I've started to use CA glue instead. IMO, it doesn't stress the wire like soldering.
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Do what you wanna do. It's your lines. But I don't condone crimped tubes, except maybe for combat lines with a life expectancy of four minutes.
I have made lines with copper wire wrapping with solder, Hot Stuff, epoxy, hot melt, bath tub sealer, and heat shrink tubing. They ALL work better than crimped tubes.
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??? Okay, well, I did it .... I made up a set of those solids like y'all say I "gott'a" have 'ta be legal :-\ . I followed the instruction according to the AMA rule book and the video Fred Cronenwett (sp??) posted on YouTube. Guy's, I gott'a be honest, in my heart, I don't like 'em ... I'm uncomfortable!! They just don't seem all that safe. Even with the twice around the thimble, the wrapping with the Sig copper wire and the soldering and cleaning while that area is strong enough, all it takes is an accidental bend/kink where the solder ends and "bingo" the line breaks and that's all she wrote!! At least using the .015 or .018 cable there's a good probability of being able to detect a couple of broken strands ahead of time. I looked at all the categories listed in the NCLRA and none of them are restricted to solids and unless I'm missing something I believe many of their classes are faster than the majority of the Perkys, aren't they? (jus' askin' cause I'm not sure). Is there something I'm missing with regards to the rationale for the restriction to solids only?
Jim
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Frankly, I don't like the rules either. Over the years I have broken solids with painful results. Including last year at Brodak (up line. plane survived and placed 3rd this year) But, remember, this has nothing to do with NCLRA. AMA racing and speed require solids and, since this event and Fox speed are 'speed events' they are governed by those rules. So, if you want to play, you gotta go with the published rules. I use stranded lines for all practice flights. ;)
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It is amazing to me ,these line sizes have been the same for at least 5 years
first off ,NCLRA is a RACING organization ,Not speed, ,that said they have two class's that require solids Rat and Scale racing, both with over 120 speeds on a good airplane, they are both on .014 solid lines Plus F2C uses .014 solids again a good plane over 120 mph .Mouse 1 and 2 require .010 solids, .if u want to use braided u must go to .012 which is a big disadvantage.i don't know of anyone that uses them.
Speed, which i believe the Perky is ,requires solids in all class's
in all the years i have been flying ( 62 years ). i have only had one solid line failure and that was because the loops did not have a big enough radius and broke
i usually replace my lines every season but do have some that are over 2 years old and still work fine
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Thanks C.T.! Thanks Bob! Yes, I understand the rules and don't get me wrong, I will comply!! I'm just curious and seeking understanding and yes, even when I was in the military I sort'a build a reputation as a safety inspector for "beating the horse to death then flip'em over for another round" .... to me, the "way its always been" just isn't sufficient!! We'd still be using carrier pigeons or party lines for communications, versus cell phones and computers.
Bob, C.T. and really anyone who can, based upon with your experiences, I'm guessing the use of solids came about because of some particular rationale, right? Is it that they are safer than cable in some way? Are they stronger in tensile strength i.e. .014 solid versus .015 stranded? Is there a slight gain/perceived gain in lap times thus mph? Now this may sound silly but please tolerate me a bit longer .... what is the difference between speed and racing? Is it because there's more than one person in the circle at a time? If so, is it considered that stranded cable be the safer? If not why aren't the pilots allowed to use solids, again assuming there is some sort of lap/speed differential?
Granted, I don't have any fancy scientific equipment, just my analog South Bend 50# fishing scale and my bench vise, I just did a series of tests with some of the .014 solids that I had left over from making the lines for my Perky. As a curiosity I made 5 different sizes "kinks", using my trusty old protractor (180, 140, 90, & 60 degrees) in the lines and any over 60 degrees failed (broke) somewhat easily after attempting to straighten them and in doing the same radius "kinks" bends in .015 stranded and attempting to straighten them I didn't have even one strand of the cable snap. I really do wish I had access to some laboratory grade test equipment as this stuff was fun!! :D
Jim
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it looks simple enough to me, Dont Kink them
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it looks simple enough to me, Dont Kink them
Yeah .... guess you're right about dat' LL~ LL~
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In reality, both solid and stranded lines can be damaged. A proper pull test should protect you from in flight failure.
If you ever fly at a contest run by hard core speed flyers you will need the solid lines.
They fly F2d on .015" (metric) stranded lines and subject them to a lot more stress than Perky Speed. Being that Perky is a special sport event you could make a case that .015" stranded is legal. Of course you will be subjecting yourself to a little more frontal area and slightly lowering your score.
In the world of Speed, if they allowed solid or stranded of equal strength the stranded would be A LOT bigger. So everybody would use solid. That's the way it went.
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Wow, thanks Paul, this is some good info!! I didn't know about the F2d, that there's a difference in the lines, thanks. I'm trying to put together some sort of intelligent data dealing with the solids vs stranded, vs the new hi tech fibers. It'll probably be rejected, but with guys like you, Bob, C.T. and others, I've learned so much and I can never thank you guys enough.
Jim
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Any more Perky results?
If you have any scores besides the Brodak and Nats, please get them to me.
Either through SH or via e mail.
crickballs01@aol.com
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I have updated my Excel spreadsheet to include St Louis in addition to Brodak and Muncie.
Please tell me your city & state and engine & engine position if I don't already have it. Also, I could use some pictures in addition to those I took at The Brodak.
Also, any other events beyond the three I listed?
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If you don't want to bother with the whole document, here's the quick-and-dirty,.
Place Name Speed Event
1 Al Ferraro 111.8 Brodak
2 Peter Lott 106.5 Brodak
3 C.T. Schaefer 105.0 Brodak
4 Bill Hughes 101.9 Nats
5 Carl Dodge 99.9 Nats
6 Bob Whitney 98.1 Brodak
7 Dave Hallas 96.5 Brodak
8 Paul Smith 95.7 Brodak
9 Patrick Hempel 90.0 Nats
10 John Moll 88.64 Nats
11 Dave Evar 83.7 Brodak
12 Price Reese 82.2 Brodak
13 Don Sopka 69.3 Brodak
14 Ken Towers 63.2 Brodak
The event is open until November 15, 2015. Please submit any improvements.
Greetings Paul! Well, I just back home and with the help of the wife I was able to get both of my Perky's in the air :-\. I'm a bit ashamed because I really thought I could get some better times but this is all I could get out of them today :-[. Hope it's acceptable :-\. At least I tried and not to repair Perky 01 :'(.
Jim Carter (01) 61.3 Postal Titusville Florida OS Max 15 vertical
Jim Carter (02) 64.2 Postal Titusville Florida Fox 15 vertical
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Dude, This has been a long running thread and it's really cool to see it taken to a conclusion. You built 'em and flew 'em both before the cut off. Congratulations!! You can always work on them to go faster. TS Pictures?
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Dude, This has been a long running thread and it's really cool to see it taken to a conclusion. You built 'em and flew 'em both before the cut off. Congratulations!! You can always work on them to go faster. TS Pictures?
Thanks! I wanted to get these flights in much sooner but "life" kept getting in the way :-\. Thankfully 01 will be ready to fly in a couple of days and then I'll probably sell both of them because there's no activity close by (less than 200 miles) and none of the guys I fly with are interested :(.
JC
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Thanks C.T.! Thanks Bob! Yes, I understand the rules and don't get me wrong, I will comply!! I'm just curious and seeking understanding and yes, even when I was in the military I sort'a build a reputation as a safety inspector for "beating the horse to death then flip'em over for another round" .... to me, the "way its always been" just isn't sufficient!! We'd still be using carrier pigeons or party lines for communications, versus cell phones and computers.
Bob, C.T. and really anyone who can, based upon with your experiences, I'm guessing the use of solids came about because of some particular rationale, right? Is it that they are safer than cable in some way? Are they stronger in tensile strength i.e. .014 solid versus .015 stranded? Is there a slight gain/perceived gain in lap times thus mph? Now this may sound silly but please tolerate me a bit longer .... what is the difference between speed and racing? Is it because there's more than one person in the circle at a time? If so, is it considered that stranded cable be the safer? If not why aren't the pilots allowed to use solids, again assuming there is some sort of lap/speed differential?
Granted, I don't have any fancy scientific equipment, just my analog South Bend 50# fishing scale and my bench vise, I just did a series of tests with some of the .014 solids that I had left over from making the lines for my Perky. As a curiosity I made 5 different sizes "kinks", using my trusty old protractor (180, 140, 90, & 60 degrees) in the lines and any over 60 degrees failed (broke) somewhat easily after attempting to straighten them and in doing the same radius "kinks" bends in .015 stranded and attempting to straighten them I didn't have even one strand of the cable snap. I really do wish I had access to some laboratory grade test equipment as this stuff was fun!! :D
Jim
A little off topic but the question of tensile strength of lines was discussed over on the Barton CL Forum some years ago - my memory of it is a bit sketchy now but if you want to read up on it here's the link:
http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8437&highlight=line+tests
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Kool! Very interesting. Thanks :)
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How did it crash?
My guess is a torque roll on takeoff.
With only a 18" wingspan (9 on each side) these things need more tip weight than you might guess. When you pick up the Perky by the nose cone and tail you want to see the outboard wing go down with gusto.
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How did it crash?
My guess is a torque roll on takeoff.
With only a 18" wingspan (9 on each side) these things need more tip weight than you might guess. When you pick up the Perky by the nose cone and tail you want to see the outboard wing go down with gusto.
Well, it could have been but we've flown it a few times before, generally it was hand launched because of the depth of the grass. I probably would have done it over grass again except my wife can't do it and she was my helper. I was on a ratty old blacktopped surface and it's possible one of the lines snagged for an instant and it turned in towards me climbed into a wingover with lines somewhat slackened and .... into the ground! I'm just thankful there wasn't any more damage. I've got all the repairs made as I write this and I only have to re-cover the wings and mount the engine with a new spinner. Unfortunately I don't have any of the transparent blue monokote left so I'll have to come up with another color scheme :)
Jim
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:D Greetings everyone! Please pardon the resurrection of the post but I was curious of the results for the event. I think I missed them and couldn't find any other postings. Also, will there be another postal event for 2016? I hope so!! #^
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I sent the results to Brodak in early February. They should be in CLW within a month.
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When I first heard about Perky Postal, it made me think of "Liars Poker" you know, I have a flush, I have 4 of a kind and then someone calls you on it and you have to show. It might be fun to do that with Perky's maybe ignition only?
Just a thought.
K
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Diesel only
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(it made me think of "Liars Poker" you know)
Come to Brodak this year and witness the return of "THE WORLDS FASTEST PERKY" y1
Maybe we should sell tickets ;D
Al
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(it made me think of "Liars Poker" you know)
Come to Brodak this year and witness the return of "THE WORLDS FASTEST PERKY" y1
Maybe we should sell tickets ;D
Al
LL~ LL~ Betcha' a "KFC Meal Deal" 'dat I can fly slower that you ;D LL~ LL~
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( Betcha' a "KFC Meal Deal" 'dat I can fly slower that you )
Ok , I'll accept 'dat bet. But I'll save you some $ %^@, just make it a hot dog from the Brodak wagon. They're delicious and only 50 cents #^
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Al's Perky did 111.8 MPH at The Brodak before A LOT of witnesses who were duly impressed. Legit in every way.
That wa after seeing 106.5 by Peter Lott with another high tech Perky and 105 by CT Schafer with a basic low tech Perky which was even more impressive.