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Author Topic: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.  (Read 964 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« on: June 13, 2018, 06:45:26 PM »
This is the much-requested relief event from the unlimited engine work permitted in Perky & Fox 35 Stunt.

Stock plain bearing stunt engines.  The time is for one mile, with a half-mile being flown in each direction.  Five successful entries (more than the unlimited class). 

Speeds ranged from 73 to 82.7 MPH, pretty close for the first test of a new event.

Won by Rick Osborn with a Veco 35.
Paul Smith


Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 05:26:40 PM »
I have to put this new event in the WIN column.  We had a good initial turnout, better than several old events.  And all the entries were between 73 MPH & 82 MPH, so it was pretty close for a new event.

My current thinking is only three changes:

1.  No more mix & match.  You will have to do the takeoff, two-way speed and landing in the same flight.
2.  New name: "Two way sport speed".
3.  Two classes: Sportsman and expert.  Experts can mess with the engines.  Sportsmen run stock.,

What do you tink?

The photo is Ken Towers with his stubby Ringmaster.
Paul Smith

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 08:07:00 PM »
Or, you could go way outside the box, and simply take the difference in your upright time and your inverted time. Closest to zero wins.  No need for two classes.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 08:28:10 PM »
That's a thought.

But this sort of evolved.  Perky was the participation speed event, but it got so out-of-hand the the sport flyers needed a break.

So I ran Clown (racer) speed for several years, with good success, but that boiled down to the same 3-or-4 winners all time.

At the request of some guys I added Fox 35 Stunt Speed.  That resolved to 4 or 5 guys over 100 and 6 or 7 under 70 MPH, so as requested, I made Sportsman a separate event, with decent success. 

I had a hard time keeping experts from penetrating Sportsman.  The two-way total was my latest and best-liked format.  The 2-way requirement blocks out rat-type planes and effectively limits venturi size.  It still allows for the fastest to win, which is the name of the game.

I think a sportsman/expert format with an either/or limitation might be next year's deal.
Paul Smith

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 03:18:45 PM »
First off, Paul thanks for running the Sportsman Stunt Speed event and the Fun Carrier  event. I had a ball in both events. I was proud of how well (reliable) both of my entries performed in each event. However,not being a "speed" flier I was surprised to see that "proxy" pilots were allowed to fly other people's planes in the Sportsman Stunt Speed. In my head,flying your own plane the inverted laps smoothly was an important part of the deal. I later asked some speed fliers if using a proxy pilot was allowed in other speed events and they said "yes".
It would be like me building a stunt ship,having Paul Walker fly it,and me walking away with the trophy. Somehow it doesn't seem right?....No?
Just my 2 cents,but I think that since the event is called Sportsman "Stunt" Speed the entrant needs to fly inverted to qualify for the "stunt" aspect of the event.
Secondly, I feel that the planes needed to at least have a minimum number of square inches of wing area....Maybe around 350 as an example.
Other than that I thought it was a great event and fun to participate in I'll be back!.......Cheers,PhillySkip

Online john e. holliday

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 10:11:00 AM »
I agree with Skip,  the entrant should fly his own entry.  That is what made the Wichita Shoestring event popular.  Pilot flies his entry.
I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 12:26:43 PM »
I agree with Skip,  the entrant should fly his own entry.  That is what made the Wichita Shoestring event popular.  Pilot flies his entry.

I understand your point, but proxy flying is generally accepted in speed and racing events.  To disallow it would be something that would trigger opposition from the other side.  I can only think of one person (at most) who employed a pilot.  We're trying the maximize participation. 

In the Perky and Fox 35 Speed events, proxy flying was rampant.  I would lose half my customers if I tried to make them fly.

You still MUST fly in stunt, combat, carrier and scale.
Paul Smith

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2018, 07:04:50 PM »
Paul what did you think of my thoughts on minimum wing area for the Sportsman event? I like your idea about an expert class for this event. Maybe you could do it like this... Expert no minimum wing area,Novice class say 350? Just stuff to kick around for next year.

What about this... since "stunt" is in the title what about a class where we fly the classic 35 powered stunt jobs..Noblers ,Ares,T Birds,Smoothies etc???

Online Motorman

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 09:00:37 PM »
 You have to look at what makes this event unique/fun and a part of that is the flyin' upside down problem. When you allow proxy fliers you take away some of the charm. Why don't you just have the same pilot for each flight.

On the wing area, eventually people will figure out the optimum air frame to preform this trick. If you make a wing area rule you take away the fun of that development work also.

So, you can't work on the engine, you can't work on the airplane, you can get someone else to fly it and why is this event fun? 

Motorman
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 05:59:58 AM »
The rules allow you to work on the airplane and to use any plane that can flip over & get back upside right.   There  are many events, like Foxberg and Clown that are MORE restrictive on equipment and also allow mercenary pilots.

Also, there is wide choice of engines.  If you want to put a high performance engine inside a Fox 35 Stunt, we have an event for that.

This is not a world championship, just something to dabble in at The Brodak.
Paul Smith

Online bob whitney

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2018, 04:56:20 PM »
how do u determin what is a stunt engine and what is not?? the K&B 40 which I used in O/T 2 and the OPS 40 were never meant for stunt but have worked very well
rad racer

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2018, 05:44:30 PM »
Things can always get fuzzy, but the hard line is a plain bearing engine with a maximum swept volume of .36 cubic inches.  And also some engines disallowed by name.

But we're a still the best part of a year away.

My bigger question is about the highly modified Fox 35 Stunt event.  Is it done yet?  We only had four entries and the question seems to have been answered.  The question being, how fast can a modified Fox 35 Stunt go?  Answer: 104 MPH.
Paul Smith

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2018, 06:29:13 PM »
Paul whatever you decide on for next year,i'm in!.......please get the rules out in time for us to build new planes! Skip

Online bob whitney

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2018, 11:11:44 PM »
I would like to see the fox speed go for another year. maybe winner take all. I think we can hit 110 mph
rad racer

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2018, 05:53:07 AM »
Paul,  As hard as we tried we never got our stuff together this year. I could blame it on the new fuel? We did 112 with old fuel so I also think 110 is a possible goal. Two classes of sportsman would be fun. The stock engine rule for that is correct and relies on gentlemanly sportsmanship to keep it that way........Right?   TS

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2018, 06:06:34 PM »
The Saint Louis rule 5-25 (nitro-oil) fuel theoretically doesn't have the punch of the 10-20 I allowed in 2017.
It looks like the theory was proven correct.
Paul Smith

Online bob whitney

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2018, 10:02:14 PM »
I would like to see the unlimited flights cut down to about four or 5 attempt's . if #2 had beaten our time at say 5 minutes to 5 after trying most of the afternoon we would not had time to defend our selves and as u remember we were asked not to fly again until we got beat so we sat around watching for most of the afternoon


as for fox speed ,one contest dose not prove a theory in my mind
rad racer

Online bob whitney

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2018, 10:30:32 PM »
next year the Florida Sharks will have 3 entry's in expert sport speed as Rick will move up to join Dave and I

if anyone is interested I will have a set of plans and possably a set of lazar cut ribs
rad racer

Online bob whitney

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2018, 08:41:19 PM »
I would be willing to sponsor and supply a winner takes all trophy for fox speed ,max 3 flights to get your time  ( at Brodaks )
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 01:51:13 PM by bob whitney »
rad racer

Online bob whitney

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2018, 11:36:01 AM »
refresh our feeble minds what are the non legal engines
rad racer

Offline phil c

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2018, 07:28:12 PM »
If you really want stunt speed just time the stunt pattern from launch to passing the start point.  In between do all the maneuvers, one per lap, no scoring, the timer, or maybe an assistant, just verifies that each maneuver had all the needed points as in the pattern, but don't give any points for the maneuvers.

The clock starts when the plane is released.  Any time after it passes the takeoff point the flyer does a reverse wingover, even something as simple as a wide overhead eight outside loop first, comes down, fly past the start, do three loops, pull out upside down, do six level laps inverted, after passing the start point do 3 outside loops, and keep on going.

Something like that will bring back the spirit of 1949- fast planes flying a fast pattern.
phil Cartier

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2018, 01:23:31 PM »
Phil they can't do this because it would "upset" those speed fliers that can't/won't fly inverted.....just saying'....PhillySkip

Online bob whitney

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2018, 02:52:04 PM »
that sounds like fun ,Sign me up. nelson 36 on a Sneeker, on Prssure y1 S?P
rad racer

Offline Jim Carter

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2018, 03:29:37 PM »
that sounds like fun ,Sign me up. nelson 36 on a Sneeker, on Prssure y1 S?P

 ;D Wow!! Nelson made a stock plain bearing stunt engine .36 that could run on 5-25 (nitro-oil), use pressure and be mounted on a Sneeker?  Wow!!  LL~ LL~

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2018, 02:26:17 PM »
That won't happen.  Some engines are expressly disallowed, including all Super Tiger, Johnson and Nelson products.   If you can think of any other rules-beaters, please post them so I can add them to the no-fly list.

On the Up Side, I will be adding an expert class so the go-fasters can take a poke at this without disrupting the sportsmen.

One other refinement:  The takeoff, two ways, and landing will need to be done within a single flight.  No more cherry-picking several flights for the best numbers.
Paul Smith

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: New event - Sportsman Stunt Speed.
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2018, 07:19:05 PM »
I like it!


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