Author Topic: Fox 35 Speed Rules - Jan 2017 revision (Read 6065 times)

Fred Cronenwett · « **on:** December 11, 2016, 12:27:57 PM »

Attached is the updated Lafayette Esquadrille Fox 35 Speed Rules - Jan 2017 revision

Fred

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2016, 03:35:08 PM »

I've never seen exclamation marks in a set of rules before.

So I can use my Fox .35 combat crank shaft, a high compression head from the same, any piston and liner I want, and a quickie rat or Skat Rat with a full cowling.
Looks good for 110.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2016, 04:06:01 PM »

These rules contain some significant reductions vis a vis the 2016 rules. 107 MPH was achieved under the "old" rules. As I see it these are the key elements:

Front valve only - no conversion to RV. There was an RV setup at Brodak.
.352 displacement. Some contestants realized that there was no rule against increasing displacement. No more of that.
No pipes. There were pipes at the 2016 Brodak.
No CF or FG props - This will at least save money, if not reduce speed.
5% nitro. Half the nitro. That can't help the speed.

110 MPH might be possible.
I would set the over/under at 103.5 MPH.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2016, 04:40:46 PM »

Whoever made up this revision needs to rethink 5% nitro.

We have a whole world of speed, racing, and carrier events that mandate 10% nitro. As a contest-organizer, I will NOT lay in a supply of 5/25/70 for ONE event that drew four entries at a major contest.

There is no need to slow down this event from 107 MPH to maybe 103 with a special one-event-only fuel.

Fox 35 is not F2A. Rethink this.

Dave Edwards · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2016, 05:29:04 PM »

I agree with the 5% being problematic. I would like to run my standard foxracing fuel, 10%nitro, 25%castor. Moving to 5% means I have to buy fuel just for this event, making it a PITA. All other changes are understood and look good to me (even the exclamation point...) but then I haven't spent the time many have on their engines.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #5 on:** December 11, 2016, 06:19:13 PM »

I too think the 10% nitro should be used. I have the plans and need to dig out the old Fox's and see which ones still run.

Can we use the monoline button bell crank hook up for the lines or do we need line clips at the wing tip?

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #6 on:** December 11, 2016, 08:40:40 PM »

I just talked with John Moll who revised the rules and the reason for the 5% nitro is so that pilots don't burn up the motors with the 10% nitro fuel

Another reason for contest supplied fuel is so that everyone uses the same fuel instead of using your own fuel, this puts everyone on a level playing field. Then the only thing you can control the work done on the motor and the airplane design. John has been providing fuel for all of the speed events we host. We buy fuel to support our three Fox 35 and Perky speed events that we hold during the year.

Fred

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2016, 06:53:29 AM »

.016 solids were required in the previous rules and now again in this revision. Can't honestly understand the need for more than .014 ; no matter what the historical requirements.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #8 on:** December 12, 2016, 07:58:22 AM »

I might just use 60' leadouts and no lines at all.

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2016, 10:18:05 AM »

The only pipes at Brodak I saw were mini pipes, which should be allowed just like it is in Perky. It gets the exhaust out of the cowl and adds to the cool factor. They are used on stunt engines all the time and add little or no extra power especially at the RPM the Fox 35 stunt turns. The fuel should be 10% nitro because it is the most common that people use. I don't see a real game changer here except for the guys that were stuffing the K&B 40 piston & liners in the Fox and the rear rotor hybrid that never showed up at a contest.
Al

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Ken Burdick · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2016, 11:40:55 AM »

the only real advantage to a rr is the shaft won't break, but it's waaaayyy cooler. Front intake has been shown to be faster.

bob whitney · « **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2016, 01:40:10 PM »

I would like to see them stay with 10% so I dont need to go out and buy a gal of 5 % just to practice

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2016, 04:29:06 PM »

Fred,
Just a point of clarification on fuel - are you mixing it by volume or by weight? I ask only because for the Fox the amount of oil should be by volume (also the nitro) as if mixed by weight you come up short because of density difference (see Randy Smith - Care and feeding article under engine section). It is also important for guys mixing practice fuel.

Best, DennisT

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2016, 05:47:19 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on December 23, 2016, 04:29:06 PM

Fred,
Just a point of clarification on fuel - are you mixing it by volume or by weight? I ask only because for the Fox the amount of oil should be by volume (also the nitro) as if mixed by weight you come up short because of density difference (see Randy Smith - Care and feeding article under engine section). It is also important for guys mixing practice fuel.

Best, DennisT

I can answer for Fred. The plan is to use SIG off the shelf fuel. Their 5% nitro, 25% all castor fuel. I thought the club was using 10% nitro but Ithink we have been using 5% all along. we order fuel from SIG for our speed contest and get it then, or through Schaefer's Hobby Shop. It's known good fuel with proper oil content.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Dan McEntee

Paul Smith · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2016, 06:24:27 PM »

Volume is the standard way of measuring fuel components. I believe that all of the reputable fuel makers use volume.

I have heard that, in the past, some makers of low grade RC fuel used weight as a way of saving money on nitro & oil. Measuring by weight allows the maker to short the customer on the heavier and more expensive nitro & oil.

I can assure that the fuels supplied at The Brodak will have 10% nitro and the specified oil content by volume. ALL speed and racing events will have the usual and customary 10% nitro content. I will mention that as an exception to any rules to the contrary.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #15 on:** December 24, 2016, 10:28:13 AM »

OH NO!!!!!
10% will surely blow my hot rod fox............

Good on ya Paul

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2016, 10:35:04 AM »

Paul,

If you decide to use the St Louis rules and want to use 10% nitro then put that into the contest sanction stating that the St Louis rules will be used except that 10% nitro fuel will be supplied. You just need to state all deviations from the St Louis rules on the contest information.

I test fly my airplanes with my own 10% nitro fuel that I added some extra castor oil to, but on contest day I use the contest supplied fuel

Fred

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2016, 04:12:56 PM »

I don't know why the decision was made on 5% nitro, other than maybe that is what the Fox factory always recommended for the Fox.35, and that is what Fox Superfuel was. It is typical these days that stunt guys that fly the Fox .35 fly 10% and sometimes up to 15%. Depending on the prop used and atmospheric conditions, sometimes the higher nitro will help an engine run a bit cooler.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Dan McEntee

Paul Smith · « **Reply #18 on:** December 25, 2016, 04:34:06 AM »

Discussion boards like this serve to bring out and correct bad decisions, like a unique fuel for a splinter event.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #19 on:** December 26, 2016, 08:28:05 AM »

at this point, I wonder if it would be better to write "Brodak rules" and be done with it. This splinter event has too many slivers.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #20 on:** December 26, 2016, 10:43:36 AM »

Why when a new event works in one area as it seems to work in St Louis, why question it. If a person doesn't like the rules, create your own local rules. When Wichita had the original Shoestring racing rules we watched a couple of and then joined the fun. The fuek tanks got to be a problem as Fox quit making them. But for some reason the tanks varied in use as far as mileage on plane to plane. That is when some one brought in the required pit stops. Then it went national and was flown at a NATS as a side even. It has went down hill since.

I do plan on building one for a St Louis meet and will try to find one of the racing stock Fox 35 stunt for it. My experience with the Fox 35 is that it has a happy needle setting on a set size tank and fuel being used.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #21 on:** December 26, 2016, 11:25:57 AM »

Nine people entered at The 2016 Brodak, which was better than a lot of events that saw no need to adjust the rules.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #22 on:** December 26, 2016, 01:08:59 PM »

Fox 35 Speed will also will be run at the Nats this year on the Weds, St Louis will have two events this year with Fox 35 Speed

Feb 26 - ICE-O-LATED CL stunt and Speed
May 20-21 - Speed Contest with Perky and Fox 35 Speed

Due to the World Cup F2A contest that we are hosting on Oct 5-8 our Old Time Contest will NOT be held in 2017 due to flying site availability and Manpower. The Oct Old Time contest was our 3rd event during the year

Look here to see what events we have planned for 2017

https://lafayetteesquadrillecl.wordpress.com/lafayette-esquadrille-cl/control-line-contest-st-louis/

Fred

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #23 on:** December 27, 2016, 09:37:05 AM »

Fred/Paul,
Are button type control line bellcrank attachments allowed for Fox 35 speed?

Best, DennisT

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #24 on:** December 27, 2016, 01:17:45 PM »

Fox 35 Speed will be flown twice at Dayton in 2017:

June 17-18 NATS Warm-Up

September 9-10 Cold Cash Speed Bash

2017 St. Louis Rules

NASS supplied fuel

Don't miss your chance for fame & fortune!

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #25 on:** December 27, 2016, 04:12:15 PM »

Dennis,

Yes the button bellcrank attachments are allowed, the rules only state they have to be .016 solids and a 2 line system. John Moll is using button bellcrank attachment to get rid of the drag associated with the line connectors.

Fred

Bill Hughes · « **Reply #26 on:** December 27, 2016, 05:17:04 PM »

St. Louis Fox .35 Speed Rules will also be used at the Sugar Grove ILL "Windy City Speed Bash" in 2017. We have used the StL Rules in 2015 and 2016.
Bill Hughes

Dane Martin · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2017, 08:48:34 AM »

I just printed the rules out. I will make some revisions for our field in Las Vegas. It will be presented in our meeting tonight. Wish me luck!