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  • December 17, 2017, 10:16:43 PM

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Author Topic: 2018 Brodak Speed events  (Read 635 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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2018 Brodak Speed events
« on: November 18, 2017, 03:14:52 PM »
I have received permission to run the same three Speed events as last year.  The same schedule: Wednesday morning on the circle with early flying (Monday & Tuesday) recommended.

Perky and EXPERT Fox 35 Speed will continue to use the published rules.

Sportsman Stunt Speed is an alternative to Expert and experts are excluded.  This is participation event.  The Average Speed Award will be for Sportsman only.  Unlike the other events, this event will use 7 laps each way to total a mile.  This is a new concept in CL speed, but common on Bonneville Salt Flats.

The detailed rules are attached in MS Word.  I will consider all comments.

Stunt Hanger forced me to use the 2003 version of Word to upload this document.
Paul Smith


Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 06:05:51 AM »
Paul, Thanks to Skips comment on fuel for Sportman speed I checked the rules. You state that Fox .35 speed will use 5% fuel. Is this true?  Although it will put us on the same planet as the St. Louis fellows it will also completely change all previous results at Brodak.  Just checking. We need confirmation on this.  Thanks,  TS

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 08:16:56 AM »
I will go ahead an get a gallon of the "Saint Louis unique one-of-a-kind" fuel brewed up by Randy Ritch just for this one contest.

As I see fuel on this planet (Earth), there are three accepted fuels: 10%, 0%(F2A) and all you got.
I think the Saint Louis club is the one that's "off-planet".
Paul Smith

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 12:39:57 PM »
But it works for them. LL~ LL~ LL~
I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 12:57:00 PM »
Paul, Thanks to Skips comment on fuel for Sportman speed I checked the rules. You state that Fox .35 speed will use 5% fuel. Is this true?  Although it will put us on the same planet as the St. Louis fellows it will also completely change all previous results at Brodak.  Just checking. We need confirmation on this.  Thanks,  TS

It might change FUTURE results, but not the past.  With all of speed and racing (less 1/2A) and F2D on the same fuel we were doing well at living with a US standard.  I was hoping that the ONE EVENT that cooked up a unique formula (that can't even be bought off the shelf) would see the light and get into line.
Paul Smith

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2017, 07:32:40 AM »
Nice try anyways.  We will see if we can re-tune with the 5/25.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2017, 10:16:28 AM »
An interesting spearmint.

If the speed goes down it with show that 10% helped.

I suspect that a higher score will be achieved on 5%.  The other speed, racing, and combat events did not suffer from the reduction from unlimited to 10%.
Paul Smith

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2017, 12:30:24 PM »
I will go ahead an get a gallon of the "Saint Louis unique one-of-a-kind" fuel brewed up by Randy Ritch just for this one contest.

As I see fuel on this planet (Earth), there are three accepted fuels: 10%, 0%(F2A) and all you got.
I think the Saint Louis club is the one that's "off-planet".

     BOY ! I have never seen a bigger bunch of whiny cry babies! I have explained this before, but apparently some don't read English so good! The main reason that 5% nitro content fuel was chosen by the guy originating the event is because the fuel that Fox has ALWAYS recommended for the Fox .35 Stunt was their Fox Superfuel, which is 5% nitro and 29% all castor oil. This is keeping in with the nostalgic aspect of the event. The other reason is that this guy thought that the "stunt guys" that might enter the event would be afraid of "burning up their engines" on 10% nitro. That just showed his lack of knowledge about engines and I tried to explain to him that a LOT of us stunt guys ran our Fox .35's on 15% or more nitro, but evidently he has trouble understanding the language also because he just left the provision in place.  There is probably no more available fuel on the WHOLE planet than 5% nitro fuel. We use SIG 5% nitro and 25% all castor fuel for the contests we offer the event at and provide the fuel, so no need to buy any. Morgan Fuels offers 5% and so does Powermaster as regularly produced products. I imagine ALL of them do if you just ask. Every hobby shop I have ever visited had 5% nitro fuel. The hobby shop I worked at part time always carried it and I recommended it to people starting out simply because it was cheaper. People understand that.  You could probably do the Pepsi Blind Taste Test with fuel and have two jugs with labels covered up and after running both fuels I'll wager that 99% of your typical c/l flyer would notice no difference. They will use 10% or higher just because of the stereotypical knowledge that more nitro means more power and everyone thinks they need or want more power. Stunt guys that know what they are doing use nitro for different reasons than most everybody else. So that , AGAIN, explains how and why us alien St. Louis kooks have 5% nitro fuel for our Fox.35 speed events. We are NOT from another planet. You guys just tend to live in your own little worlds!
    Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Motorman

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2017, 05:39:22 PM »
10 nitro 20 oil is the standard fuel for all AMA speed and racing events. I understand your reasons but this seems to be a case of speed and stunt worlds colliding. Perhaps cooler heads will prevail.   
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2017, 09:03:39 PM »
With all this discussion, considering that I have conceded to St. Louis fuel rule, I expect at least a dozen entries in Expert Fox 35 Speed at the 2018 Brodak Fly In.

Paul Smith

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2017, 10:32:22 PM »
10 nitro 20 oil is the standard fuel for all AMA speed and racing events. I understand your reasons but this seems to be a case of speed and stunt worlds colliding. Perhaps cooler heads will prevail.

    I know that the standard fuel for AMA speed and racing events is 10% nitro and 20% oil, ( we have most of the events here at one time or another)  but we are NOT talking about an AMA speed event here so you should have expected to do something out of the norm. A well broken in and fitted Fox .35 might survive a few runs at 20% oil but not at the RPM that some of them are running in speed. The late Jim Thomerson use to tell me that he used regular SIG 10% Champion fuel (10% nitro, 20% total oil 50/50 Klotz & castor) in all of his Fox .35's once they were broken in with no issues but they were propped properly for stunt flying and run accordingly. The extra oil required for the iron piston and liner also acts as the " field leveler" that the originators were looking for to make things more competitive for newcomers. You could do all your set up and test flying on 10% nitro and probably not see any or very little difference. It's not a matter of any worlds colliding, just you not understanding the engine you have to work with, and the trying to turn it into something it isn't.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Online Al Ferraro

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2017, 09:31:05 PM »
Brodak Fox speed fuel for 2017 was not a custom mix. I supplied a new gallon of PowerMaster GMA 10 nitro with 22% oil that everyone use with good results. Henry used it and nailed down 3rd place with 109 mph. In Fox Speed you are only using 1oz of fuel for 40 seconds so 25% oil fuel is not needed. In stunt a Fox 35 is running for 7 or more minutes so 25 or 29% oil is needed to cool the engine to keep the Fox 35 form Running away in two a stroke. Power Master GMA 10% nitro 22% fuel is what I use in my stunt engines, it is easy to obtain and probably is less than a true 10% blend of nitro.
Al

Online bob whitney

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2017, 10:10:16 AM »
I had no problems with the fuel at Brodaks
rad racer

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 03:01:01 PM »
I thought the 10% Power Master fuel ran well in my Fox 35 powered entry.I am however, testing possible engines on 5%/29% for this year's event....Skip

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 03:51:08 PM »
I know.  You just can't please everybody.

Of the several speed events I've run; Perky, Clown, Fox 35, and Sportsman Stunt Speed, the Sportsman Speed event has drawn the most average entries.

The "unlimited" Fox 35 Speed event has averaged only 4.5 entries and a mountain of comments.  So in 2018 I enforce the rule and take the heat from those who liked the 10%.
Paul Smith

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2017, 09:27:05 PM »
Dennis Moritz is lending me a 1960s OS Max III "black fin" model for testing . Should meet the rules ....bushing motor with baffled piston. Can't wait to see what she can turn....

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 08:45:33 AM »
Dennis Moritz is lending me a 1960s OS Max III "black fin" model for testing . Should meet the rules ....bushing motor with baffled piston. Can't wait to see what she can turn....

I have a few of those, two.  I'm not sure how worn out they are.  Back in the day, they wouldn't hot start very well.  But with electric starters that won't be an issue. 
Paul Smith

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 08:50:21 PM »
Tested that old OS Max III today . I got 13,750 rpm on 5% spinning a 9x6 APC. Looks like this will be my choice for Brodaks

Offline Motorman

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2017, 09:23:37 AM »
If they don't make a rule against it before then.
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 06:26:20 AM »
I sure hope not. The rules have been established and this engine fits the criteria. Stock, black fin motor,bushing type with baffle piston. I started building a Brodak (Goldberg) Shoestring two years ago for Foxberg,but never got involved. I'll use this MaxIII in the Shoestring and see how it goes.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2017, 10:03:19 AM »
I sent the rules for all four events to Brodak a couple weeks ago. 

I don't plan to change anything unless forced to do so by higher authority, which is unlikely.
Paul Smith

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 04:17:04 AM »
Paul ,thanks for taking the time and effort to set this stuff up.

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: 2018 Brodak Speed events
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2017, 06:55:00 AM »
One other question.  For the .35 speed events.  Will there be more than one oil content fuel and if so what will they be?    Thanks Paul,  TS


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