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Author Topic: WW II USSR White.  (Read 1421 times)

Offline John Rist

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WW II USSR White.
« on: May 10, 2011, 11:18:34 PM »
I am going to paint my LA-5 in white winter camouflage.  The Color is listed as MK-7 White.  Brodak has two white dopes - Insignia White and Cessna White.  Which one would be the best match to the MK-7 White?  I am fairly sure that the blue on the bottom AMT-7 blue is Brodak Sky Blue.  What say you all??

 ???   :P   H^^
John Rist
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 02:06:58 AM »
Theres a lot of info on plastic kit sites.

Probbly wants a drop or two of black , & flattener ( matte finish ) in paint .

The Blue is a deeper colour than most air force colours.
A hint of green in it , matches dull overcast skys , low light semi arctic conds.

The " Humbrol " colour chart for their enamels has F.S. numbers to blend all camuflage colours .
If useing their enamel paints for a match , they need thorough stirring to get correct shades .

Gungze Sangho also do camo colous , some wierd water based stuff , I think .
                         ---------------------------------------------

Second thoughts are; do it bright and shiney , a few dozen flights normally take the gloss of mine ., :##
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 05:16:50 AM by Matthew Spencer »

Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2011, 11:15:50 AM »
The White is a great color scheme here is our I-16 that will be in an up coming Skyways magazine.  Good luck with your model.

Larry
Black Hawk Models

Offline John Rist

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2011, 01:58:58 PM »
I emailed John Brodak and asked him what colors he would reccomend and he replied:

Hi John,

The white looks like Cessna White the blue looks like Lakeland Blue

Your Friend in CL,

John


SO I will go with Cessna White and Lakeland blue.
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Mike Gretz

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 07:25:30 AM »
The International Plastic Modelers web site lists all Russian colors with a U.S. Federal Standard equivalent.  http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_soviet.htm

If you aren't familiar with Federal Standard Colors, you need to brush up on those and get a fan deck of FS color chips from the government.  Every scale competitor needs one!  http://www.fed-std-595.com/

Mike

Offline John Rist

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 10:05:34 AM »
The International Plastic Modelers web site lists all Russian colors with a U.S. Federal Standard equivalent.  http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_soviet.htm

If you aren't familiar with Federal Standard Colors, you need to brush up on those and get a fan deck of FS color chips from the government.  Every scale competitor needs one!  http://www.fed-std-595.com/

Mike

Mike that is good info.  The only problem is the $135 price tag.  Anyway color is a strange thing.  For stand off scale and profile scale (15' judging) I feel that true color is not as critical.  In these classes the aircraft will be judged against the color photo supplied in the documentation package at 15'.  The color photo is an artist rendition down loaded off of the internet (or copied out of a book) and printed on my local printer.  If you want true color you need a standard light source to view the paint chip etc, etc, & etc.  Also color has two componets, frequency and saturation.  So a given red can look anything from red to pink depending on saturation.  Also I suspect even the USSR didn't get it right on every aircraft.  It was war time and if a batch of paint was off color it got used anyway. Through in sun fading, war damage, and a lack of color photography my philosophy is make it look like the available artiest rendition and don't worry about the small stuff.

 #^   #^   HB~>   :!   LL~
John Rist
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2011, 01:42:01 PM »
I use the Randolph colors.

I find that Insignia White is way too "chalky" white for anything other than actual insignias.  You might better use one of the off-whites such as Vestal, Juneau, Tropic, or Randoph.  I don't think anybody trying to camouflage anything would paint it all Insignia White.
Paul Smith

Offline John Rist

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2011, 05:26:17 PM »
I use the Randolph colors.

I find that Insignia White is way too "chalky" white for anything other than actual insignias.  You might better use one of the off-whites such as Vestal, Juneau, Tropic, or Randoph.  I don't think anybody trying to camouflage anything would paint it all Insignia White.

John Brodak is reccomending the Cessna white.  SO that is what I will try.
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Hoss Cain

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 03:43:15 AM »
Mike that is good info.  The only problem is the $135 price tag.  Anyway color is a strange thing.  For stand off scale and profile scale (15' judging) I feel that true color is not as critical.  In these classes the aircraft will be judged against the color photo supplied in the documentation package at 15'.  The color photo is an artist rendition down loaded off of the internet (or copied out of a book) and printed on my local printer.  If you want true color you need a standard light source to view the paint chip etc, etc, & etc.  Also color has two componets, frequency and saturation.  So a given red can look anything from red to pink depending on saturation.  Also I suspect even the USSR didn't get it right on every aircraft.  It was war time and if a batch of paint was off color it got used anyway. Through in sun fading, war damage, and a lack of color photography my philosophy is make it look like the available artiest rendition and don't worry about the small stuff.

 #^   #^   HB~>   :!   LL~

Mr. John, great post and attitude. Love it!

This thing that has developed about "color" for scale toy airplanes has probably driven more would-be scale modelers away form scale competition than any other item I can think of. It started many years ago and is somewhat funny.

Experiences: 1. I have a book here, "US ARMY AIR FORCES. Aircraft Markings and Camouflage 1941-1947". 350 pages of politics and keeping a whole lot of people out of combat deciding daily what to do with paint, numbers, etc., etc.  
Reality: I had a good RC Friend, George P., back some years ago that spent several years in Europe during WW II and his job besides aircraft mechanic was keeping up the paint jobs on P-47s and P-51s. He said that the Tech orders required specific mixtures and such for shades of color. They simply went to check the available paint, mixed up enough to paint whatever, took brooms and broomed it on. All those fractions of an inch about numbers came out of a paint brush and slopped on.

2. Another Friend, Tom S. was invited to the first-ever Top Gun to fly his B-17. Once there they wanted his "COLOR CHIPS". Well, Tom had a letter from then Confederate Air Force certifying the model was painted with the very same paint used for the subject B-17. He was still severely downgraded because he had no chips. Tom said to "L" with that business.

3. Another thing that amuses me is Platt's "Realism of Flight". While there is some general items, there is little connection from a model airplane to its counterpart in the 1:1 scale arena.
Reality: Another friend, Richard F. was a scale judge at a contest that I was running back in the '70s in Chicagoland.
One guy came up and was P&Ming about this judge having no clue about realism of flight, which was a relatively new item in Scale at the time. The contestant said that he was a private pilot, had almost 100 hours in a couple small airplanes and did know such. I had problems controlling myself. RF had several thousand hours with time in both the P-47 and P-51, was wounded, and finished the war as a B-17 pilot. He then transferred to Ferry Command and spent several more years ferrying different aircraft all over the world. IIRC he had some 65 different types in the log book. Nope he did not know realism of flight. HA HA Ha.  LL~ I lost track of Richard back in the early '90s. Sad.

Yes, I think this Scale thing goes a tad far in color and how the real machine flew. But then what do I know, just did it for 41 years and stopped counting somewhere around 20,000 hours.  :##
Horrace Cain
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New Caney, TX  (NE Houston area)

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: WW II USSR White.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 07:59:02 AM »
Hoss
A very similar experience happened to a friend of mine.  He built a model of a Beachcraft airplane and because it had two shades of green on it he ordered a quart of each color from the aircraft manufacturer.  He used the Beachcraft Sales Slip as his "Proof of Color."  His model was downgraded on color because he did not provide "Color Chips" in his Presentation.

My friend's name is Jack Sheeks.
Clancy
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.


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