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Author Topic: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?  (Read 5676 times)

Offline Flying Knight

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Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« on: January 01, 2017, 08:14:36 AM »
I would like to build C/L scale WWII war birds and I see most of the kits I remember have been discontinued.  Some of the R/C kits seem much to large for C/L.  Are all control line scale models scratch built these days?   Does anyone still make full bodied scale model balsa kits?  Where can I find good plans?  Thank you!

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2017, 08:27:16 AM »
Winning scale models tend to be one-off projects designed, built, and documented by the contestant himself.

If you want a kit there are plenty of RC kits on the market.  They are big, but big generally wins. 

Available CL kits are often made off-scale for better flyability or to cut production cost.  Judges know this and they will catch the flaws.
Paul Smith

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2017, 08:36:42 AM »
    I know of no WW-1 c/l scale kits on the market, and can't think of any from years gone by. I think your best bet is to research old magazine articles for both c/l and r/c models. It will take some hours at the computer but at least youhave that capability these days. Plans, magazines and articles are in collections both private and public and are available. Flying Models has their plans service back up and operating again. The AMA has taken over several plans collections and has a wealth of material. The Bob Banka documentation service is still around for photos and three views. It would be nice to just pop a box lid, check out the plans, read over the instructions and then dig into a project, but just not the case. Goodd luck with the search and have some fun. It will be worth the effort.
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   Dan McEntee
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Offline pmackenzie

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2017, 08:43:04 AM »
MAAC 8177

Offline Trostle

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2017, 10:01:22 AM »
  Where can I find good plans?  Thank you!

If you have a particular aircraft in mind, check the AMA plans service.  The listing will explain if the plans are for FF, CL, or RC, will show the wing span, and will give the source, like the magazine or kit. 

There have been listings on eBay where a disc can be purchased that has all of the Berkeley kits.  Also, o eBay, you can do a search on whatever aircraft you are interested in.  There is a chance that somebody is selling plans for a flying model from one of any number of sources, though most of these are for RC and may not be suitable if you are interested only in CL.

You can contact Cleveland models and purchase plans for any of the kits they have produced over the years.  Yes, these Cleveland kits were mostly for stick and tissue models, but you get the outlines, cross sections and airfoils and they will even enlarge to the size/scale you wish. 

However, for me, I would rather just find a good set of 3-views, enlarge them to the size I want and work out the construction from there.  Unless you are just interested in a Sport Scale type model, I feel that most kits, whether for CL or RC, do not offer the size I want, have too many compromises from scale, like incorrect span/length for the given scale, incorrect tail sections, incorrect spinner/nose contours (like most P-51 kits), and the list goes on.

Keith

Online chuck snyder

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2017, 10:24:29 AM »
I have been very happy with a couple of converted R/C kits. You did not mention what size model you would like to build so maybe they would be too big for you. I have a Skyshark Val that I have flown in fun scale. In my opinion the Skyshark kits are an ideal size for C/L scale. The Val is the best flying C/L scale model I have. Its airfoil is thicker than scale, and the nose has been stretched (probably for balance). It should lose some points in Sport Scale static judging. I also have a Brian Taylor Typhoon that I have flown in Sport Scale. It is a bit larger at 72" wingspan and 15# flying weight. Traplett sells the Taylor designs and they are well-known for scale accuracy. I have also had a converted Top Flite 60 size P-40. It flew very well, but suffered static score due to its poor scale outline. And finally I had a Royal FW-190. OK on outline, but too heavy to fly well.
Chuck

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2017, 10:56:43 AM »
Another thought regarding WWII models. The new rules have a 1.5 point penalty if your model does not have retracts if the prototype did. Another 1.5 point penalty for not including flaps. My 190 had retracts. As initially installed they wouldn't work on the first flight. The outboard wheel would not retract, and the inboard would not come back down! Centrifugal force (or centripetal for the purists) has to be considered. It can require another 3 g's of retraction force for gear like the 190. I eventually got them to work with extra cylinders, but at a serious weight penalty. I tried to build retracts for the Typhoon, but when loaded up for the centrifugal load the mechanism just crushed itself. It has fixed gear. My models with retracts (the P-40 and HS-129) have gear that fold straight back. Those work.
Chuck

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2017, 11:45:49 AM »
Those are extremely punitive rules, especially toward models that are already built.  They will certainly do nothing more than make a tiny event even smaller.

A bonus for gear & flaps (within the 100-point maximum) is OK.  But that rule condemns many existing models to a maximum flight score of 97.

I guess everybody should build a Shoestring-type model and go for 100.

Tough luck to all those 4-engine planes from Florida.  You lose.

I expected that getting CL Scale out from under RC would have killed the whole penalty thing.
Paul Smith

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2017, 12:06:39 PM »
the first thing you want to decide is how Big you want to build then you can take a set of plans that have good outlines and build from those plans to the size you want. The big problem with that is then you have a find a canopy and maybe a cowl that fits the size you want to build. you can scale the plans up or down but then a canopy might not be available unless you are willing to pull your own canopy.

Let's talk about size, remember that if the model weighs less than 20 lbs it can be flown in CL scale. So how does this convert into wing span... it depends. My 96" span B-29 tips the scales at 13 1/2 lbs and has considerable line pull (approx. 30-40 lbs). the larger models fly better and can tolerate the weight of the electronics, retracts much better. Typically I like to keep my CL scale models under 14 lbs. Assume you want to build a P-51 these wingspans would be...

Single engine warbirds...
48" - difficult to fit in the retracts and flap servos at this scale -
56" - Smallest I would build, still not enough wing area to tolerate the retracts and other electronics
65" - Great size, lots of stuff available for retracts and flaps
72" - Big as I would want to get due to overall weight

Bombers - Go big because the nacelle size will determine how much room you have for the engine, the 96" span B-29 is as small I am willing to go because of the nacelle size

Servos come in all sizes but trying to fit a servo for flaps, throttle in a 40" span model can be challenge while fitting it into a 70" span model is easy and carries the weight much better. In general the wing loading on the larger models can much more than with a small model

The electric retracts do well, just need to get one big enough to handle the CL model.

Fred
Fred Cronenwett
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Model Aviation CL Scale columnist

Offline Flying Knight

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2017, 02:28:17 PM »
Thanks for the great input.  At this point I am interested in sport modeling.  I'm a decent builder, but not near good enough to consider scale contests.  Possibly in the future.  I have a question about plans.  I can see how PDF plans can be scaled.  How would you scale printed plans?  Will they need to be scanned into a PDF and resized?  I realize this may be a stupid question, but I've been out of the hobby for a number of years and imagine things are different these days.  I thought the canopy was going to be an issue.  I think I could construct a cowl without big problems.  I'm thinking I should start with an available canopy approximately the right size and scale the plans to fit.

The Top Flight P51 Kit looks good, but the model seems huge to me. I've never seen a C/L model that big.  If I could find a kit like that for a .40 size engine, I think it would be just right.  I have no problem converting an R/C kit to C/L. All my C/L models currently use electric power.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2017, 03:21:47 PM »
Let's say you have an 8.5 x 11 plan.  Take it to the local copy shop and have it blown up to 11 x 17.

Take it home and measure the wingspan.  If the plan gives 14" wingspan and you want a 42" model, go back and set the machine to 300%.  Typically, these machines go to 400%.  It will take several passes to get the whole plan.

Some shops may have a big printer that will do it all in one pass.

Or if you have a modern scanner, you can scan the plan to a zip drive or CD and have the copy shop blow it up to what you want.

It's a good idea to work to standard scales like 1/16, 1/12 or 1/8 so you can get pilots and other purchase parts.
Paul Smith

Offline Walter Hicks

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 02:16:00 PM »
Check out  PDK LLC,  Pat King Kits 1/2 A, .15 and bigger beautiful plans laser cut.




Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 11:07:33 PM »
Hi Flying Knight,

I see Top Flite P-51D Mustang C/L kits designed by Jerry Worth on Ebay often. They are 1" to 1' so 37 inch span, molded fuselage sides and a paper jig to help with alignment usually kitted with good wood. Should be good flyers. It was designed for a bushed .35 from the 60's and they were quite lightweight and not near as powerful as say a modern .25. An R/C OS 15 LA would probably work just fine.
 
There are two other Form Flite Scale kits from the same era but smaller, the P-40F and P-47N. They're 3/4" to 1' and around 30 inch span. Modern .09's would be enough on these.

I see these in the 75 dollar and less range often.

Others to look for are the Berkeley kits in the 30 inch span/ 3/4" to 1' range, SNJ, FW-190, Spitfire, Bearcat, and older ones in the 1" to 1' Mustang and Bearcat. Tougher to build than the TF kits but your size. There are a few ducted fan jets too, like the T-33, Skyray, F11 Tiger and F8 Crusader. Berkeley also has a bunch of civilian airplane Scale kits in the same relative sizes, Little Stinker, Shoestring, Cosmic Wind, Cessna 195, etc.

JRoberts bellcranks and handles are often on Ebay too, a simple solution to throttle control and it makes them fun to fly around doing take offs and landings.

Good luck and if you find some and start construction please post pictures.

Chris...  
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 11:27:43 PM by Chris McMillin »

Offline John Rist

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 09:50:20 AM »
Brodak has several scale kits for control line.  I built the LA-5.  Nice kit and it did well at contests.
John Rist
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 11:21:31 AM »
I wouldn't hesitate to look on eBay for older kits -- there's lots of kits that are still unbuilt when a modeler retires from the hobby, and some of them find their way to da bay.  There were lots of kits about the right size thirty or fourty years ago, and some of those kits should still be available.

If you do compete, I wouldn't worry too much about not aiming for a contest-winning plane.  I see plenty of guys locally who aren't shooting for a trophy but are still having fun trying to better their score, or to beat the guy who came in 6th to their 7th last time.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Rist

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2017, 12:24:41 PM »
John Rist
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Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Where to Find Scale Kits and Plans?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2017, 03:02:19 PM »
Love the Shoestring and Cosmic Wind.
Chris...


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