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Author Topic: Smith Miniplane  (Read 3198 times)

Online fred cesquim

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Smith Miniplane
« on: August 26, 2021, 06:09:52 AM »
anyone tried this SIG conversion? i am tight on schedule to finish within 80 days for brazilian nats
had to put the Aeronca aside due to some problems with engine supply and other materials, and elected the Miniplane for a back up plane
so far 3 working afternoons and already looks like a bipe

Online bill bischoff

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2021, 12:31:17 PM »
I had a friend that had one with a G21-46 and a three line system. It was a nice flier but not not the greatest in regard to scale fidelity.

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2021, 12:46:20 PM »
I had a friend that had one with a G21-46 and a three line system. It was a nice flier but not not the greatest in regard to scale fidelity.
sounds good to me, i will power with a LA46 3 lines, outlines are a bit off, but with such amount fo time available, i will be happy with results
no time to improve on that
good to know it flies well, has he attempted inverted flight?
regards

Online bill bischoff

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2021, 08:50:10 PM »
It was many years ago, and I can't remember for sure. Was the prototype capable of sustained inverted flight?

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2021, 08:23:38 AM »
It was many years ago, and I can't remember for sure. Was the prototype capable of sustained inverted flight?
i donīt think so, almost flat bottom wing, and on the reports and videos i havenīt seem them inverted. But, you know, would be a sight off competition to fly her inverted

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2021, 09:06:30 AM »
    I have a SIG Smith Mini-Plane kit stashed away and a partially completed R/C version that I want to set up for C'L scale. The R/C versions that I have seen fly flew very well, and I have no doubt that in the right hands could fly inverted even with a flat bottom airfoil. But with that said, I don't know about a C/L scale version. The wind loading seems reasonable for normal flight as built but for any aerobatics I think it would need to be put on a serious diet, more power and an airfoil change.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2021, 06:25:36 PM »
    I have a SIG Smith Mini-Plane kit stashed away and a partially completed R/C version that I want to set up for C'L scale.

    Dan McEntee

 Dan, you need to get to building.  ;)
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2021, 06:29:06 PM »
sounds good to me, i will power with a LA46 3 lines, outlines are a bit off, but with such amount fo time available, i will be happy with results
no time to improve on that
good to know it flies well, has he attempted inverted flight?
regards

 I would consider more motor than the .46.  y1

 Also, any plane can fly inverted, at least for a short distance.  :##
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2021, 04:27:05 AM »
I would consider more motor than the .46.  y1

 Also, any plane can fly inverted, at least for a short distance.  :##
after all, inverted flight in c/l is just a laaaazy looop ;D

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2021, 08:43:50 AM »
Miniplane's can fly or glide inverted, it depends on if they have an inverted system for the fuel and oil or not. The idea that 'flatbottom' wings won't fly inverted seems to continue, but it is true that they very much will and do every day. People go out and practice their acro routines in Cubs, Pitts Specials, Smiths, EAAs, Stardusters, and Citabrias and Great Lakes for all sorts of Sportsman and Advanced category aerobatic competitions around the country!
My parent's Citabria 7KCAB had a Christen inverted system and dad used to endure my desire to fly inverted when I was in 8th grade, it sure took a lot of forward stick!
Dan, remember the N3N Inverted Biplane Jump at Quincy (50 times a day for 11 days) and Staggerwing acro with inverted glides, and the Aerobatic Beech Bonanza? No Stunt wings there either.
For a Smith Miniplane flying Scale a loop and inverted flight would be prototypical flight.
Chris...

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2021, 06:39:46 PM »
Miniplane's can fly or glide inverted, it depends on if they have an inverted system for the fuel and oil or not. The idea that 'flatbottom' wings won't fly inverted seems to continue, but it is true that they very much will and do every day. People go out and practice their acro routines in Cubs, Pitts Specials, Smiths, EAAs, Stardusters, and Citabrias and Great Lakes for all sorts of Sportsman and Advanced category aerobatic competitions around the country!
My parent's Citabria 7KCAB had a Christen inverted system and dad used to endure my desire to fly inverted when I was in 8th grade, it sure took a lot of forward stick!
Dan, remember the N3N Inverted Biplane Jump at Quincy (50 times a day for 11 days) and Staggerwing acro with inverted glides, and the Aerobatic Beech Bonanza? No Stunt wings there either.
For a Smith Miniplane flying Scale a loop and inverted flight would be prototypical flight.
Chris...
Great information here Chris! thank you
indeed, a flat bottom can do inverted flight, but will be a handful to keep it and even more to return to level flight. in competition i don not intend to do more than taxy/wing overs/land(one piece preferably) if i ever finish in time! but really appreciate your information on the capability of the plane.

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2021, 07:58:52 PM »
Great information here Chris! thank you
indeed, a flat bottom can do inverted flight, but will be a handful to keep it and even more to return to level flight. in competition i don not intend to do more than taxy/wing overs/land(one piece preferably) if i ever finish in time! but really appreciate your information on the capability of the plane.

 This implied intent of some lazy acro is why I'd suggest more power than the .46 for this project. You won't regret it, especially at that moment when you decide to pull back from inverted.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2021, 10:45:44 PM »
Miniplane's can fly or glide inverted, it depends on if they have an inverted system for the fuel and oil or not. The idea that 'flatbottom' wings won't fly inverted seems to continue, but it is true that they very much will and do every day. People go out and practice their acro routines in Cubs, Pitts Specials, Smiths, EAAs, Stardusters, and Citabrias and Great Lakes for all sorts of Sportsman and Advanced category aerobatic competitions around the country!
My parent's Citabria 7KCAB had a Christen inverted system and dad used to endure my desire to fly inverted when I was in 8th grade, it sure took a lot of forward stick!
Dan, remember the N3N Inverted Biplane Jump at Quincy (50 times a day for 11 days) and Staggerwing acro with inverted glides, and the Aerobatic Beech Bonanza? No Stunt wings there either.
For a Smith Miniplane flying Scale a loop and inverted flight would be prototypical flight.
Chris...

  Oh yeah, I remember all of this and was aware of capabilities. I used to be able to fly my sailplanes inverted to help bring them down from high thermal flight. I could even do a four pint roll with a Gentle Lady on just rudder and elevator. But when flying R/C you have the whole sky to use up. To do a simple loop up to 60 degrees or so, fly inverted, or even do a decent wing over, with the stock built SIG kit is what I have some questions about. I have seen guys fly them at Buder Park at the R/C field and with the wing loading they have, it's a fast model, but flies very smooth and didn't look like they had any bad habits. I just think you would have to get one really light to do the few mentioned tricks on a 65 foot set of lines with the kit airfoil, and would need at least an engine like the ST.51  , or maybe even a four stroke like the Saito .56 or .62 since the extra weight of those engine will help balance that short nose. "GIVE ME MORE POWER SCOTTY!"
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2021, 05:13:53 AM »
This implied intent of some lazy acro is why I'd suggest more power than the .46 for this project. You won't regret it, especially at that moment when you decide to pull back from inverted.  y1
as per the rules here i should not perform any stunt that the real one doesenīt perform, and, if it does, like inverted, it should be a graceful pattern not a desperate attempt, otherwise i will loss points. so this one is just for scale competition and iīll rely on the static and sport flight performance, for this, the 46 will be enough, i hope so. definitively a 51 will pull her back to his feet, but will show on the cowl and then more loss of points. the 46 will be fully enclosed
will keep posting when i have more progress here
thanks for all input and advice 

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2021, 07:22:48 AM »
Fred,

A flat bottom airfoil always has limitations even though, yes, the model will fly inverted.

The "Airfoil." I found this on line:

"In the late 1990s Sky Classic Aircraft of Des Moines, Iowa was developing an improved version of the Miniplane designated as the Smith Sport Miniplane. This model featured more cockpit room for larger pilots, a new airfoil and re-drawn plans to aid construction."

You could, and I'm guessing it wouldn't take long, do a bit of research and find out what airfoil was used with the "improved version."

You might get lucky and not have to build the wings from scratch. You will have a better flying model with the elimination of the "original" airfoil.

AND! It'll still be "SCALE!"

CB


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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2021, 04:32:07 AM »
Fred,

A flat bottom airfoil always has limitations even though, yes, the model will fly inverted.

The "Airfoil." I found this on line:

"In the late 1990s Sky Classic Aircraft of Des Moines, Iowa was developing an improved version of the Miniplane designated as the Smith Sport Miniplane. This model featured more cockpit room for larger pilots, a new airfoil and re-drawn plans to aid construction."

You could, and I'm guessing it wouldn't take long, do a bit of research and find out what airfoil was used with the "improved version."

You might get lucky and not have to build the wings from scratch. You will have a better flying model with the elimination of the "original" airfoil.

AND! It'll still be "SCALE!"

CB
havenīt heard of this version, if i had more time to build would be an option, but i am really tight on that, competition is getting closer

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2021, 06:41:18 AM »
Fred,

Models look nice correctly framed. Good for you.

Well organized shop also.

I don't have to say, "Keep up the good work."

Charles
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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2021, 07:59:03 AM »
Fred,

Models look nice correctly framed. Good for you.

Well organized shop also.

I don't have to say, "Keep up the good work."

Charles
thank you Charles! "staged" picture lol. before that was a bit messy
hope to have top wing attached by the weekend and then starts the finishing process
regards


Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2021, 03:13:31 PM »
thank you Charles! "staged" picture lol. before that was a bit messy
hope to have top wing attached by the weekend and then starts the finishing process
regards

Fred,

So inspired by your Build, I search for a Smith.

If it was half the price I would grab it.

Maybe others were inspired also, so, I hope you don't mind me Posting this.

Charles

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144141109721?hash=item218f7ac9d9:g:xCsAAOSwspJhC~Lf

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2021, 03:59:40 PM »
Fred,

So inspired by your Build, I search for a Smith.

If it was half the price I would grab it.

Maybe others were inspired also, so, I hope you don't mind me Posting this.

Charles

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144141109721?hash=item218f7ac9d9:g:xCsAAOSwspJhC~Lf
i feel happy for that, wish i could inspire brazilians to build anything! looks like a sad thing how they stay away from building here... do you know how much kit cost in brazil? cambio rate is 6 : 1 and we have a 100% import fee! a steal, got this one really cheap but the box was falling apart, no problem for me. hope you can find a cheap one on RCgroups they shows up from time to time
regards

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2021, 04:38:26 PM »
i feel happy for that, wish i could inspire brazilians to build anything! looks like a sad thing how they stay away from building here... do you know how much kit cost in brazil? cambio rate is 6 : 1 and we have a 100% import fee! a steal, got this one really cheap but the box was falling apart, no problem for me. hope you can find a cheap one on RCgroups they shows up from time to time
regards

Thank you Fred.

Yes, I will continue to look.

However, I feel my chances of finding one for around 100.00 USA won't be possible.

Charles

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Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2021, 06:23:52 AM »
45 days to the competition and still working, had to modify the cowl,  and produce wheel pants, next will be molding the new parts. also changed fuse sides from the straight profile to a more scale like shape, and add aluminium panels after covering
nit sure if will finish in time, but i am trying my best

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2021, 08:01:26 AM »
Fred,

Nice work! Takes an imagination to see "product" which will help pull off the scale look.

You are the Forum's Master Builder.  H^^

Charles
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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2021, 02:27:23 PM »
Fred,

Nice work! Takes an imagination to see "product" which will help pull off the scale look.

You are the Forum's Master Builder.  H^^

Charles
thank you Charles, hinge material was a nice finding
70% covered now

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2021, 05:31:52 PM »
thank you Charles, hinge material was a nice finding
70% covered now

Fred,

Exactly what is that material?

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2021, 05:59:46 PM »
Oratex, can be purchased from Balsa USA, itīs like monokote but with a fabric texture, can be laser cut ( to make rib stitching)  , painted and applies as monokote, paint over
i have used o the FW190.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2021, 11:56:46 PM »
Oratex, can be purchased from Balsa USA, itīs like monokote but with a fabric texture, can be laser cut ( to make rib stitching)  , painted and applies as monokote, paint over
i have used o the FW190.

Fred,

Thank you for this. I'm not a bit surprised as to what I'm seeing. Typical of your level of work.

I always said you are the best.

Charles
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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2021, 05:33:25 AM »
70% of plane already covered, now itīs rib stitching time
still have to attach upper wing and fashion the support struts and fittings, then assembly is done and goes cosmetic scale details
 

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2021, 05:36:40 AM »
molds for cowl and wheel pants done, hope to make the parts today as well
not perfect shiny molds, but as they are one -off and done in a few days, i can live with that, primer will do the job to hide blamishes

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2021, 06:35:39 AM »
a bit more progress, fiberglass parts and rib stitching

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2021, 01:39:33 PM »
closer to the painting stage! all covering and rib stitching done, fiberglass parts done
just a few things, struts assembly and then nose aluminium sheeting

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2021, 06:10:00 AM »
well, hard to believe but i manged to finish her in 84 days, just in for competition!
took third place due to the lack of pilot ( 10% static note was cut) i was first on flight and static notes, but, crasehd the plane on trial test the day before competition, and the little time i had to finish pilot and cockpit was spent fixing the crash results
not bat for my first F4B competiton. will fix it properly for 2022
thanks for the support here fro youm guys!
hereīs flight at competition:
https://web.facebook.com/100000619375107/videos/pcb.5246477228702956/1073379803506046

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2021, 06:10:31 AM »
a few more

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2021, 06:11:27 AM »
test flight day

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2021, 06:13:24 AM »
Very nicely done!!!
Chuck

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2021, 09:14:21 AM »
Fred,

You're killing me with your abilities.  H^^

And the flying wires are what?

I use aluminum welding rods. They file down easily if needed.

Charles
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2021, 04:13:14 PM »
Very nicely done!!!
Chuck
thank you Chuck!

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2021, 04:24:40 PM »
Fred,

You're killing me with your abilities.  H^^

And the flying wires are what?

I use aluminum welding rods. They file down easily if needed.

Charles
thank you Charles! used windshield stainless flat wire that keeps the rubber flat and flexible ( got them on trash) heavy but fast solution for such hectic building time. Loved the tip of the welding rod!

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2021, 09:46:35 PM »
thank you Charles! used windshield stainless flat wire that keeps the rubber flat and flexible ( got them on trash) heavy but fast solution for such hectic building time. Loved the tip of the welding rod!

       I would caution you on using aluminum welding rod for flying wires. They are meant to be used as filler material, and aluminum welding rod really has no strength or resilience, and bends very easily. Not much tensile strength either. If you had it on a model and it got bumped and bent you would never get it straight again without it showing.

     Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2021, 03:45:18 AM »
       I would caution you on using aluminum welding rod for flying wires. They are meant to be used as filler material, and aluminum welding rod really has no strength or resilience, and bends very easily. Not much tensile strength either. If you had it on a model and it got bumped and bent you would never get it straight again without it showing.

     Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
thanks Dan, will consider that
first flight ended in a pretty bad accident, and i am sure it was saved by the flying wires, they split the shock and damage was minimal

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2021, 01:16:00 AM »
The model looks spectacular, so sorry about the accident.
Chris...

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2022, 04:50:57 AM »
The model looks spectacular, so sorry about the accident.
Chris...
thanks Chris, fortunately minor damage, i am working on her to enter again 2022, this time with a full cockpit!
regards

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2022, 02:59:00 PM »
back to business!
i have taken back to the smith, now adding cockpit, re-painting the destroyed parts from the crash, added some bolts and nuts, corrected some paint outlines and made a new fun/rudder to be precise scale and try to earn more points on the static

Online fred cesquim

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2022, 03:01:26 PM »
ready for paint now
2 weeks raining, what a bummer

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Smith Miniplane
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2022, 07:19:31 PM »

 Awesome.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member


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