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Author Topic: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!  (Read 1759 times)

Offline Bill Little

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Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« on: February 02, 2007, 06:30:53 PM »
Guys,  lead me through this........

I have decided to finish a Sterling Great Lakes Trainer from a kit I started many many years ago (about 35!).  The parts I have done are ok, and I can knock it out rather quickly. 

The plans have a three view and decals are in the kit for an orange version.  I'm sure many of you have seen this kit before.

I am using a J-Roberts three line B/C, and OS 40LA w/tongue muffler.  Should be a good first scale entry, I hope! (??)

Now, what do I need for that first contest?????????  Just don't leave anything out, you will not embarass or offend me by saying ANYTHING!  Think of trying to explain nuclear physics to a five year old..........that will work as a procedure for me. y1

TIA
Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 01:05:46 AM »
I think you have all of the essentials there, Bill.
The documentation will be a little slim with that three view and written color references, but it sounds like that is all you need for sport Scale. It would be really cool if you found a photo of the prototype. You might be able to on thenet somewhere. Search landings.com for the N number and see if the airplane is still with us, and contact the owner to see if it was ever that color and if there is any pics of it back when, etc.
Post a pic.
Chris...

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 06:00:22 AM »
You gotta have either a spinner or one of those acorn "safety nuts" (well named, don't cha think?). 

There must have been  a high death toll of people getting hit by scale jobs, but it's still a rule.

--------------------

I bought one of those at an estate sale and promptly 'bayed it.  Maybe you'll have a competator.
----------------
The box top could serve as "basic documentation".
Paul Smith

Offline Dick Byron

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 06:01:18 AM »
I would suggest that you get the documentation done first. Make your decision on the exact subject you want to build, color, any special paint design, etc. Without a exact defined goal you will not be satisfied. Of course it is mandatory that you read the rules of the event you wish to compete in, sport scale, FAI, or fun scale.
   E Bay will provide much if you search there for books on your subject. If you would like me to help just ask. There is nothing more rewarding than helping a fellow modeler be successful.  

  I just did a Google search. WOW plenty of stuff there. Good luck.

dick byron

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 06:41:07 AM »
Bill,
Once you get all your documentation, rules (print them out and keep them), and any special paraphernalia you need for that model, put it all together in one place and keep it there. I use one of those fancy, heavy duty shopping bags. Then you only have to remember to bring the bag to a contest.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 02:08:12 PM »
OK,  Now I have a direction to head towards.  I do appreciate it, guys!  I am really, really working to get this one to Huntersville in June. 
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Keith Spriggs

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 11:32:33 PM »
Here is a story about my first scale model

Sometime in the late fifties I decided to build a U control scale model airplane for contest.. I decided to build a Piper Cub J3. I bought a 1 ˝ inch to the foot model kit. I went to the local airport where a J3 was kept. Back then you could just wander around the hangers and look at anything you wanted to. I had borrowed my brother-in-laws 35mm camera an Argus C3.  I took up a roll of film of the details. Sometimes I forgot to wind the film and I got double exposures. I decided to make up a trophy winner with lots of details including a completely detailed interior with upholstered seats and even seat belts. For an engine I chose a Fox Rocket .35. I fitted it with a slide throttle valve for speed control from a Roberts 3 line bell crank.  I almost had the model done when the first contest came up. The only thing that was not finished was the dummy engine that of course was a four cylinder opposed that stuck out of the cowl on each side. I check the balance and it seemed very tail heavy, but I ignored it and figured it would fly OK.

After the static judging I was in 4th place. I was pretty disappointed as I thought I had the best details and finish. I had covered the entire model with silk and doped it till it looked like canvas. The other models that were mostly WW II planes had very shiny finishes. When it came time to do the actual flying the one with the least points flew first. Anyone could make a flight but everyone under fourth place opted to pass on flying. I decided to go ahead in case one of the three ahead of me could not make a flight. I got the Fox fired up and my buddy released the model on my signal. I had decided not to take a chance with the throttle because it was not very dependable. When it was released it got airborne pretty quickly. When it reached about 8ft altitude it banked to the left and started across the circle, passing about 10 foot from me. When it hit the end of the lines I managed to gain a few feet of altitude. It turned inward again and again cut across the circle. I managed to gain a little more altitude. About half way thru the flight the doors came open and the seat flew out. I heard someone yell “Look the pilot has ejected” someone else yelled, “I would too. After what seemed like an eternity it ran out of fuel and I managed to land it without damage. I got a standing ovation, but no trophy.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 08:36:40 AM »
Dick Byron gave some good info above, so I will not repeat what he said about documentation.

Regarding documentation, another good source is

Bob's Aircraft Documentation  (714) 979-7279

http://www.bobsairdoc.com

You can access his catalog on-line.  But, his catalog is worth having.  It has all sorts of articles written by scale people.

Bob Banka has a tremedous resource in his collection of 3-views (over 39,000) and photographs (over 400,000). 

For the Great Lakes Trainer, he lists 4 different 3-views and 26 photo-packs.  These are color photograph prints of actual aircraft.  Each pack has photographs of a specific airplane.  The packs for the Great Lakes Trainer will have from 7 to over 30 pictures.   You will be able to pick your color scheme.  You will be able to put together a first-class presentation, especially for Sport Scale, from this material.

You will find Bob very helpfull with what you are looking for.

Offline Mike Gretz

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 10:09:27 AM »
If you want to compete with the Great Lakes, by all means make sure you have proof of the color scheme (including N-number) that will be on your model.  Preferably a photo or several photos of the actual full scale airplane with that n-number.

Getting your documentation together before building the model, as recommended by Dick Byron and others, is the the best advice.  If you show up at a contest with a model with a specific n-number and color scheme, and NO documentation that the full-size airplane ever existed with that n-number and colors, your static score will suffer drastically.

On the bad news front, I noticed in the picture of the kit contents that the kit decals are for Great Lakes NC374Y.  A quick search of the current FAA database shows that this number is now being used by a 1965 Bowers Fly Baby. Here is the place to search for current N-numbers:  http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.asp
A search of old records shows that NC374Y was originally issued to a Buhl Pup.  Here is the place to search for old N-numbers:  http://www.aerofiles.com/regs-home.html
FYI - www.aerofiles.com is one of the very best online resources for aircraft research!!
Here is their page about the history of Great Lakes aircraft. http://www.aerofiles.com/_grlakes.html

I have also done a google search on Great Lakes NC374Y and come up with nothing.  So I am doubtful if there was ever a Great Lakes with number NC374Y.  I would recommend against using those decals on your model.  Do more research and find another subject aircraft.  As Keith said, Bob Banka's documentation is a good source of pictures of airplanes that are still in existance.

The cowling in of the Sterling kit indicates that this is a very early model Great Lakes - most likely a 2T-1 or 2T-1A.  The upright inline engine cowl is the clue.  The majority of Great Lakes that you see at fly-ins nowadays have a radial engine.  I suspect that many, if not most, of the Bob Banka's Great Lakes are radial engined.

One of the most famous inline engine Great Lakes was Tex Rankin's airplane, in which he set a world record in 1931 performing 131 consecutive outside loops at Charlotte, North Carolina.  Do a google search on Tex Rankin Great Lakes and you will have lots of reading.  The airplane still exists and is being restored.

Above all have fun.  The documentation search can be just as much fun as building and flying the airplane.  And it will have a EVERYTHING to do with how well the airplane scores at contests.

Mike

Offline Dick Byron

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 03:08:26 PM »
Hey Mike,
            Thanks for all the leads. I can use them too.

dick byron

Offline Mike Gretz

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 09:20:36 PM »
I tell ya Dick, that www.aerofiles.com is a wonderful web resource for aviation history researchers, antique airplane restorers, and scale modelers.  The first time I ever went there, I spent the whole evening looking around.

They have complete records of ATC (Approved Type Certificates,
a complete record of original registrations (N-numbers) issued by the FAA,
short but detailed histories of practically every aircraft company that ever existed, including explanations of their model numbering system,
and many, many more hard to find pieces of aviation history.

The aerofiles web site was founded by some of the the premier aviation historians/writers in this country.
I use it a lot.

Mike G

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!!
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 10:25:05 PM »
Bill,
Mike gretz's excellent post reminded me that another very famous Great Lakes is also kitted by Sterling and is Harold Krier's. The decals in the smalleer rubber powered kit would make great stencils or a basis for making new properly scaled decals, and the real airplane is on display at the Smithsonian Udvar/Hazy Museum at Dulles. I would assume a ton of photos of this ship exist.
Chris...

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Scale for Dummies! LOL!! UPDATE 2/28/07
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2007, 07:44:49 AM »
Fuselage almost finished, wings built and almost finished, tail surfaces almost done.....  Installing OS 40LA on a three line system at this time.  I will use the three views and stuff from the kit plans for this, and try to find a couple pictures to match the paint scheme to.  Our meets will not have static judging, so this one can be a *little* slack in documentation for now......... just going to try and get the feet wet and fly a three line set up.

Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by


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