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Author Topic: Fun Scale for the NATS  (Read 734 times)

Online John Rist

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Fun Scale for the NATS
« on: June 11, 2010, 02:10:13 PM »
Well if I don't crash it along the line I should make the nats this year. This is my Extra 300S Fun Scale. First flight was good.  The CG was a little to the rear allowing it to hunt during level flight.  That has been corrected and I have finished with the decals.  This is a an RC ARF from Tower Hobbies converted to Control-line.  I plane to get in several test flights and away we go.  The two pictures below are of the real aircraft and mine.

 H^^  H^^  H^^
John Rist
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Offline Dick Byron

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 05:12:11 PM »
John,
    That is a very well done aircraft. I will be there too. This does look like fun. H^^ H^^

Online John Rist

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 02:04:26 PM »
Well I guess I have run out of excuses not to go to the NATS.  Had a great flight today.  Need to pratice landings some next week.  She has a rather high wing loading and comes in hot and heavy.  She tends to bounce.  Any suggestions on how to grease a landing.  Also is there a tire of choice that is low bounce.  Flight pictures attached.
John Rist
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2010, 11:26:04 PM »
some say the foam tyres dont bounce.

" down elevator will hold the plane on the ground , though wait for the wheels to be on the ground before applying " !

seems if you touch dead about downwind , it'll rip round for about a half a lap , to stop into wind .

Trick is the 'pull through ' on the engine cut . to keep up the momentum. But Youve Got a Throttle !

so are gonna have to figure that one out .

Figure take off speed is Equivilant to Landing speed - DONT bring it in Nose High.

Unless your trying for 'three point ' touchdown,

Tecnique is still bring er in flat and not slow, as the speed falls of the nose is raised ( the 'round out ' ) to

STALL out wing , as it touches .So as it wont lift of again .


Springy undercarrages can bounce . Dampning / Shock ABSORBING are what your after, not high spring.

Tho one could nominate 'Landing Bounce ' AS a Manouvre ! ?

Online John Rist

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 07:50:42 AM »

" down elevator will hold the plane on the ground , though wait for the wheels to be on the ground before applying " !

Figure take off speed is Equivilant to Landing speed - DONT bring it in Nose High.

Unless your trying for 'three point ' touchdown,

Tecnique is still bring er in flat and not slow, as the speed falls of the nose is raised ( the 'round out ' ) to

STALL out wing , as it touches .So as it wont lift of again .


Springy undercarrages can bounce . Dampning / Shock ABSORBING are what your after, not high spring.

Tho one could nominate 'Landing Bounce ' AS a Manouvre ! ?

Thanks!  All sounds good especially "Figure take off speed is Equivilant to Landing speed - DONT bring it in Nose High."  I was trying to slow it down and it would fall out of the sky with a big bounce.  Who would think landing is the hardest maneuver in the book.  %^@.  I may well declare a maneuver "bad landing with go-a-roung.  But I still have to grease the final landing.  The final landing is not an option.  LL~
John Rist
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2010, 09:24:13 AM »
Keep enough power on til it touches down.  Then it's off power and a touch down.  I don't kow for sure but, I think with that design, three point landings is what is being looked for.  I have seen both on the real planes.  But, as usual it takes practice.  If you can try to set down on up wind side so the wind will help keep it down.  Do a lot of touch and goes will also get you o landing better.  Remember the throttle is your friend.  By the way is the smoke an option or is the engine rich? H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2010, 01:23:19 PM »
John,
The rule book says in 4.15 that "an aircraft may make a three point landing or may touch the main wheels first and gently lower the tail or nose wheel as speed decreases."
The attempts at three point landings with a tail dragger may well be the to8ghest to make.  Not being in the cockpit to feel the ship's response, it's not an easy task to keep from either flaring back up or hitting too hard, thus bouncing.
I highly recommend the "wheel landing" approach and then let the ship just settle down as it runs out of speed.  What Doc said about the throttle being your friend is absolutely true.  Remember that you can arrest the descent with a touch of throttle and hold the ship off the runway a bit, but by then you will be behind the power curve and the ship will still descend, just more slowly, and you can learn to grease it in with practice.
For me, THAT is a real point grabber for realism of flight! y1
Seeyathere!
Will
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Online John Rist

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2010, 06:55:47 AM »
Keep enough power on til it touches down.  Then it's off power and a touch down.  I don't kow for sure but, I think with that design, three point landings is what is being looked for.  I have seen both on the real planes.  But, as usual it takes practice.  If you can try to set down on up wind side so the wind will help keep it down.  Do a lot of touch and goes will also get you o landing better.  Remember the throttle is your friend.  By the way is the smoke an option or is the engine rich? H^^

Smoke is one of my options. Attached photo is with smoke off.  I fly 3-4 laps with smoke on. I dive and clime during the 3 laps. I does look really cool!

Next flight out I will shoot touch & go till I get it right.  Thanks for everybody's help.



John Rist
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Offline John Witt

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 07:51:35 PM »
When I was flying taildraggers, back in the day, if you put the tailwheel on just a bit before the mains, there was a lot less tendency to bounce as the angle of attack would decrease slightly when the mains touched down (1949 Piper Clipper).

John W
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Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 07:58:11 AM »
When flying aerobatic monoplanes like the Extra 300, Rebel 300, and Laser, I usually made a wheel landing on the mains. It was a visiblity issue because the wing blocks the usual view of the sides of the runway, unlike a biplane and monoplanes with low or high wings. This will allow you to make a smooth, bounceless touchdown and the decelleration to lower the tail as you reduce throttle to idle will come quickly thereafter.
Good luck, John. The model is looking good.
Chris...
P.S. At airshows most performers make a smoking hot wheel landing. Hence, my father refers to wheel landings as an "airshow maneuver"!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 09:03:33 PM by Chris McMillin »

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2010, 03:41:27 PM »
What Chris said. y1 y1 H^^
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Hoss Cain

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Re: Fun Scale for the NATS
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2010, 12:06:22 AM »
//snip// She has a rather high wing loading and comes in hot and heavy.  She tends to bounce.  Any suggestions on how to grease a landing.  Also is there a tire of choice that is low bounce.  Flight pictures attached.

I have not flown anything CL or 1:1 scale in this category, however some years ago when I flew my first RC laser 200 with a ST .60, I found that prop pitch makes a whole lot of difference in the landing maneuver.
Wanna go fast: I used a 11-7.5 or a 11.5 - 7 and I had to go to idle about 100 yards prior to touchdown point and on an estimated 5-10° glide slope it was fairly easy to make a smooth landing.
If aerobatics was the plan, then I switched to 12-6 or 12.5-5 and the acro was much better, slower straight and level but vertical was at least 50% better.
With the low-pitch props I could carry some power on final and gradually reduce the power in the round-out for 3 pointers almost every time.  Still works.
I have found the same to apply for all my flying, like a CL model with the engine dead is always easy to land, unless it has very high wing loading.

One proof was some years ago most all the Houston area clubs were into a Sig 4-Star Pylon Race program. Same fuel, engine, and model. Everyone had landing problems with the supplied 9-7 props. For a fun flight change to a 11-4 or 5 and it was just as hard to make a bad landing.  :D
So maybe a longer lower pitch prop might be worth a try.
Horrace Cain
AMA L-93 CD and Leader
New Caney, TX  (NE Houston area)


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