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mark romanowitz

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Please remove topic
« on: October 01, 2018, 11:36:22 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:27:27 PM by mark romanowitz »

Tom Vieira

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2018, 12:11:01 PM »
very cool!!!!

Offline Trostle

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2018, 01:18:57 PM »
Interesting airplane.  There is a surprising amount of literature on this if you have not already found out.  If you are planning to compete with this, you have probably started to collect information for your documentation.  If you do not already have these, let me recommend them to you.

Warpaint Series No. 54: Westland Whirlwind by Alan W. Hall, published by Warpaint Books, UK.  24 pages plus cover and back page.  Good 3-views, pages and pages of color profiles, good photos of cockpit and landing gear.

4+ Publication, Westland Whirlwind, printed in the Czech Republic.  Really nice 3-views.  Excellent detailed photos of cockpit, landing gear, gun installation and others.   Detailed drawings of the cockpit and landing gear.

I can list some other sources, but these two are really worth getting.

Keith

mark romanowitz

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2018, 01:53:18 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:27:43 PM by mark romanowitz »

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2018, 03:59:04 PM »
I too have looked at the Whirlwind for a potential model. Plenty of challenges. Looks to me that the full-scale has a much higher aspect ratio wing than your model plans show. There is an old build of an R/C model by Vance Mosher on rcscalebuilder that details replicating the flap movement.
Chuck

mark romanowitz

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 09:16:25 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:27:56 PM by mark romanowitz »

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 05:43:22 AM »
Mark, not a magazine: www.rcscalebuilder.com

Offline TDM

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 06:14:55 AM »
Nice choice for a build.
Immediate thoughts are:
1 Mold the fuselage make a side view out of a piece of thick plywood then add the formers from the plan in the appropriate positions and mold the sides out of balsa laminate. And yes you can mold the nacelles too.
2 Foam wing panels build construction for wings and elevator. 
3 If you want to get scale speed keep it super light

Good luck

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hEX-5iMTedY/Waj9Z5gH27I/AAAAAAAAD0E/q_uKAXAUxYAdveDeC9OrJI71xzks3T8OgCLcBGAs/s1600/Westland%2BWhirlwind%2BSchematic.gif
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2106208-Westland-Whirlwind
https://gallery.autodesk.com/projects/westland-whirlwind-mk1-fighter  Check out the flaps detail

https://www.google.com/search?q=westland+whirlwind&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS783US783&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwial5Kz4OfdAhWwxVkKHbNrBaoQ_AUIDygC&biw=1920&bih=1007#imgrc=y6lHd9LOD85Q3M:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 06:59:54 AM by TDM »
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Trostle

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2018, 12:49:35 PM »


On the plans I have, the wingspan is 65", the chord of the center section is 9".. That gives an aspect ratio of roughly 7.22.


Thanks again,

Mark

That is not quite how aspect ratio is calculated.  The outer wing panels are tapered.  Aspect ratio is the ratio of span to the average chord or another way to calculate it is take the square of the span divided by the wing area or 

b2/S  where b is the span and S is the wing area.

According to the specifications listed from several sources for the Whirlwind, the span is 45 ft and the wing area is 250 ft2 which gives an aspect ratio of 8.10.

Now, based on the two sets of 1/72 3-views I have, the ratio of the center section chord to the span is 6.8.

Keith

mark romanowitz

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 01:38:17 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:28:16 PM by mark romanowitz »

Offline Trostle

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 03:02:37 PM »
Mark,

I mentioned the two references above.   Those would prove to be the most useful of the several other sources that I am aware of.  However, if you are on a quest to gather more information, here is what I have collected over the years.  There is probably not much more in any of these than what the two previous references listed above as many have the same photos and comments, but you might find some different color schemes and a few more photos not provided by these first two.

In no particular order:

Aeroplane Magazine from the UK, May 2006.  This is from their "Data Base" series.  18 pages.  Photos, drawings, small 3-view, interesting reading.

FlyPast magazine from the UK, October 2008.  This is from their "In Focus" series.  20 pages.  Photos, some color profiles, interesting reading.

Scale Aviation Modeller magazine from the UK, February 1997.   Several photos, color cockpit details, 3 pages of color profiles, really good 3-view drawings.

Planes magazine from the UK, October 1984.  Really good 3-view drawings on four pages, showing coloring and markings detail.

Westland Whirlwind Described by Bruce Robertson.  Published by Kookaburra Technical Publications, Australia, 1970.  26 page booklet with photos, history, cockpit detail photos, good 3-views taken from Westland drawings showing some construction detail, one page of color profiles.

Camouflage & Markings - RAF Fighter Command 1936-1945, book by Goulding and Jones, published in the UK, 1971.  Has a 12 page chapter on the Whirlwind, gives a short history. some photos, gives some details on coloring and markings in black and white tone drawings, several small color drawings. 

Westland Whirlwind Mk. 1 from the Allied Wings series of booklets, published in France (no date). 54 pages, mostly operational history.  Several color profiles.

The Westland Whirlwind  by Profile Publications, No 191 published in the UK  The color profiles may be useful.

Air Enthusiast magazine from the UK, July 1973.  10 pages 2-page detailed cutaway, cockpit drawing detail, 1 page color 3-view.

Air International magazine from the UK, March 1995. 7 pages, much the same as the Air Enthusiast magazine article listed above.

There is more, but like most of the above  these show the same photos and stories/background history of the airplane.

The Whirlwind has been on my list of special interest airplanes for CL scale for a long time.  I took care of my need to have a Whirlwind by building one for the multi-engine profile 1/2A scale rules used for the Tucson and St. Louis contests.  The St. Louis rules require the controls to be exposed and no throttles.  It was a fun build and it was successful, both in St Louis and in Tucson.

Keith



Offline Trostle

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 03:18:03 PM »
Thanks for the inputs everyone..

(Clip)

- Thanks Keith.  Sorry, I shouldn't be careless/loose with my term usage and application. I'm familiar that it is the average chord, but was just going for a quick approximation, for even just a quick ratio of the chord at the root to the span would tell me if the plans that I have were out of scale and roughly by how much.
Thanks particularly for the formula of the span squared divided by the area. Didn't know that one. I will definitely use it going forward.

(Clip)

Mark

Really, I am not trying to beat a dead horse here.  But more on the accuracy of those full size plans you already have.

I have several published 3-view drawings as mentioned in the references I have listed above.  One set of drawings referenced the source is from Westland.

Measuring each of these, I get the same ratio of 6.8 comparing the constant center section chord to the wing span.  This indicates to me that the plans you have might be slightly off.  This is a problem when working with plans from another source rather than making your own.    Depending on how important it is to you for the degree of fidelity, you might want to take a good set of published 3-view drawings, enlarge them to the size of your plans and see how far off they might be.  It might not be to much trouble to alter the full size plans you have.  Decisions, Decisions.

When you decide to build a scale airplane, there may have to be compromises.  It all depends on how much of a deviation or compromise you are comfortable with.

Keith

mark romanowitz

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2018, 07:33:46 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:28:37 PM by mark romanowitz »

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2018, 09:52:03 PM »
Far Out .





Gota profile plank wing ( Oriental ) one , flys real good . theres a scale wing planform profile one on Bartoon , somewhere .

Always thought a Al Rabe type scaleish F2B one'd work , since the Picture of his Hornet in Aeromuddler in the 70's .
I did a profile Silver Oriental wing one around 73 or 74 . V light . OS 20s .



Guess this ones rubber power ? .


Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2018, 09:58:11 PM »


https://www.behance.net/gallery/19097735/WESTLAND-WHIRLWIND-MkI-PROJECT

You wannabe carefull with SCALE DRAWINGS .

theres a Notorious plastic kit test comparison , where only ones right . It matches the DRAWINGS .

UNFORTUNATELY the two deadly accurate P-47s DONT . The drawings are as hopeless as most of the kits .

Manufacturers drawings are fairly often pretty correct , if you can find em .
Reasearching plastic kit builds ( I P M S etc ) can often bring to light obscure info .

Good Job . Press on rewardless .  S?P

mark romanowitz

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2018, 11:08:05 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:28:54 PM by mark romanowitz »

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2018, 08:09:05 AM »
Airplanes like that - and the Grumman Skyrocket - usually come out tail heavy and there's not much you can do to fit it other than a uranium spinner.
Paul Smith

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2018, 05:20:55 PM »
Baghh , Cobblers . give It A GO . Radio Muddler one from the 70s ( same ?? ) Had two OS max .30s ,



FREE plan download . https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4731


Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2018, 07:04:03 PM »
Just build the @#$% thing!! (I think that's what Matt said).  Built, flying, and not quite perfect is way better than never started!  And there's plenty of depleted uranium in the world -- or even lead, if you want to be prosaic.  Heck, you can probably machine the spinners out of solid brass and get enough weight on it.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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