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Author Topic: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question  (Read 687 times)

Offline Bob Heywood

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Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« on: April 11, 2011, 08:23:44 AM »
The Proof of Scale rule para. 6.3.b. allows for published art as an acceptable form of support for color & marking documentation. I just looking for a confirmation that Cal Smith American Modeler cover art complys with this requirement.

Thanks.

Bob
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Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 10:39:27 AM »
I would think that it is acceptable.

Given the shading that artists use, you might be giving the judges a challenge regarding the color to match if you use this for the color portion. I have used this type of art for the markings documentation without any problems.

Chuck

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 01:43:58 PM »
I wouldn't worry too much about shades of color:

  • Ancient prototypes before color photography became common.
  • Color photos run through publushers and reprinting
  • Continuous sunfading of prototypes

It would be  a cheap shot to downgrade a model for difference in shade.

Paul Smith

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2011, 03:08:46 PM »
When I was at the 1993 Nats I had a judge get really picky about the color of a red spot on the model that was the size of a 1 cent stamp. I had a color chip for the overall olive drab and light grey for the A-20 Havoc, but the judge got all upset that I did not have a color chip for the red square. And the event I was entering was CL profile scale, the event that is suppose to attract beginners. I guess my point is that don't under estimate what the judges will be looking for. Try to find proof the color that was used and find a color chip to match that information.

For my A-20 I had a color side view drawing that woried great for general painting and location of markings, but also included the color chips for the olive drab and light grey so the judges would not try to use the color drawing for the actual color. I never thought they would want to see a color chip for a insignia red square that measured no more than .5" x .5" in size.

Fred Cronenwett
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2011, 05:57:47 PM »
I agree with Fred.

Red is especially prone to sun-fading.  It starts to bleach out from Day One.  You don't need color chips at all, just a color photo or painting.  If you had the marking in the right place and some sort of red, it should get full points.
Paul Smith

Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 06:57:57 PM »
Here's more of the story. Art Chester's Swee Pea II is one of two planes on my "A" List. After all those years hugging a speed pylon I'm considering a scale model. My first step is to assemble a workable documentation package. I have a color photo and two pieces of art. One of the issues is that the photo does not show the plane with the Kendall & SOHIO contingency sponsor decals. So... Do I use the photo for the color and one of the art pieces as a supplement for the other markings? The only scale dwg I have presently isn't of much use.

Unfortunately, I don't have a finish manufacturer's color name or a Munsell number for the cream or the green.

Thanks for your comments.

Bob
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Offline John Witt

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 10:23:19 AM »
This kind of stuff comes up constantly and is one of the challenges of scale building, whether it be planes, trains, cars or boats. It gets even worse when you try weathering a model.

I think it is a mistake to try to figure out in advance what you think might please a judge.  Build for your own satisfaction, what looks good is good.  What I have always felt is that we are creating an illusion and there can be a lot of artistry in doing that, a lot of understanding of human perception of the model's overall impression.  The idea of competeing  with scale models is sort of spurious, but we do it anyway, mainly (for me) as an excuse to show off our work to a group of peers and hang out with a bunch of like-minded fliers.

There has been a huge amount written about weathering, color perception and how to achieve a particular effect. Give your best shot and don't be shy about bring your work to a contest. And don't get upset when a judge doesn't agree with you, he may be one of the nearly 20% of American males who is red-green color blind!

BTW, I don't think I have ever seen a model of the Shoestring that gets that chartreuse color right.

And welcome to the fascinating world of scale.

John Witt
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Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 10:56:19 AM »
Bob, when you say your scale drawing is not of much use, do you mean that you don't have usable "outline" documentation yet? Accuracy of Outline is a huge part of your score.

I strongly feel that you should not give any conflicting information to the judges. If they get confused, you get a lower score. If you are planning to put the sponsor decals on the model, then I suggest you DO NOT include the photo in your package.

Seems like a color match to the artist's drawing is all you can do.

Chuck

Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 04:55:27 PM »
The plane with sponsor decals is what I would consider the definitive version. My first choice would be to use the Cal Smith art as proof of color & markings.

As far as the scale drawing, the only one I have at this time is by Bob Hirsch. It has flaws and omissions. I am going to Bob Banka to see what his assortment looks like. However, the regulations do allow for a selection of photos to serve as proof of outline. There are enough photos available with the plane in this form to do a decent proof of scale package. So...

Again, thank for the constructive comments.
"Clockwise Forever..."

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2011, 06:10:42 PM »
One model that I have had on the building boards for awhile is the Miles M5 Sparrowhawk from the 1932 Kings cup Race in England. Like you I only have black and white photos and a description that the aircraft was "Creme" colored. It will be my best guess on what "Creme" color is.

 The other comments were right, do not give the judges conflicting information, present information for one aircraft, and only one aircraft. Documenting the aircraft from this era is tricky.

One trick that Jack Sheeks told me, if the photo you present the judges had 3 details visible, then your model better have all three details. If you are missing one detail, do not include that photo in the documentation. Sounds odd, but from the judges point of view, if you prove that your model should have 3 details, and you only have 2 of the 3, the judge will lower your score.

Land softly,
Fred Cronenwett
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Online John Rist

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2011, 11:14:59 PM »
As I understand it their is a maximum number of pages allowed in the scale documentation book - but no minimum.  So at what point is a package declared "Not Enough" by a scale judge.  For instance the 3-view and photos I have do not show the bottom of the aircraft.  So I have very little to go on for detailing the bottom - How does all this play out? 
 ???
John Rist
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2011, 05:40:59 AM »
John
To clarify one point.  The limit of 8 pages is correct for Sport Scale and Profile Scale.  Fun Scale can be a little as one page.  Designer Scale, Team Scale or FAI F4B Scale can have as many pages of documentation as the contestant wishes to present.
Clancy
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Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2011, 07:03:55 AM »
To expand the scope of this discussion a bit:

I'm referencing my questions / comments to Event 509; Control Line Sport Scale. Event 524 and F4B are not on the radar screen for now.

Allowing one (1) page for a scale drawing and one (1) page for the color plate leaves six (6) pages for photos to document the overall appearance of the airplane. I'm looking for a basic walkaround showing port side, front, starboard, and rear. Those will be 8 x 10. The 5th page will be an 8 x 10 that shows some underwing detail. The 6th page will probably be four (4) 4 x 5 prints showing important smaller details.

Unfortunately, bottom plan photos are rare, unless the plane is hanging or someone caught it in the air. At some point you have to give it your best shot. As far as what is enough, just put your self in the judge's position. What would you hope to see?
"Clockwise Forever..."

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: Proof-of-Scale Documentation question
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2011, 12:35:03 PM »
Bob Haywood sent me a message that I had made a mistake on the rules for Team Scale.  Bob is correct!!!

Team Scale rules are the same as Sport Scale therefore only 8 pages of documentation.

Sorry for the error,
Clancy
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