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Author Topic: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...  (Read 1208 times)

Offline Chris McMillin

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Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« on: December 08, 2017, 02:38:39 PM »
Skip Chernoff ran into a guy that had a bunch of Scale kits to dispose of from another modeler as he posted about before on his B-50 thread. I inquired about the Twin Beech kit, having flown the Twin Beech as freighters in the 80's when building my career. Well, the guys deemed me worthy and Skip sent this beautiful kit to me which arrived the other day. Very nice, old hand sawn kit in excellent shape. The outlines are pretty good, the gear isn't scale but interesting how they made it, super neat-o metal cowl rings, and the wood is nice and straight. Should be fun.
Chris...


Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 07:27:19 AM »
Wow!  That's awesome!  There have been quite a number of unique models designed from back in the day and it looks like you have one of them.  Oh how I wish I had known about those kits!  I love building them.  Because of the acquisitions of a couple of friends, I've been able to replicate the KYO B-29 and the Eureka Grumman SA-16 Albatross.  Do you know if Skip has any more he would like to part with? 

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 03:10:20 PM »
I just sent Skip a PM when I asked him about the Twin Beech kit. Contact him, he can get ahold of the ones with the kits.
Love your models, they look great!
Chris...

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 07:20:34 PM »
Hey Chuck or Will or someone with some twin experience,
I flew my 52 inch Tigercat in Old Time with two wide open OS 15FP's (but it only weighed 40 something ounces), should I use 40's in this Twin Beech or 25's? I'm leaning towards NIB OS40FP R/C's.
Chris...

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 08:02:47 PM »
 Chris,

 Since (I assume) you're not going to be doing any aerobatics with this one, and unless you're adding a ton of weight with scale details and functions, I'd say two FP or LA .25's would be perfect for this model. I'm confident that with them you could fly round and round and well up over 45 degrees quite happily. With two .40's you could add a smoke system and practice your Matt Younkin routine.  ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 05:40:28 AM »
Chris,
My profile deH Hornet weighs 7.5# and flies with a pair OS .30S engines. (the old cross-flow versions) It WILL NOT do high flight. Span is 50-some inches. The full-body Hs-129 is 15# and has two Thunder Tiger .46 engines. It will fly at the FAI altitude, but I don't think I have ever tried high flight. It pulls way too hard at full throttle. I did not see how big or what the forecast weight of the Beech is, so direct comparison is lacking. On the other hand, the OS FP engines are about as reliable as you can find. I like large diameter, low-pitch props (thrust over speed). And as "they" say: you can always throttle back! You will probably need nose weight too.
Chuck

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 09:16:35 PM »
Chris,
My profile deH Hornet weighs 7.5# and flies with a pair OS .30S engines. (the old cross-flow versions) It WILL NOT do high flight. Span is 50-some inches.

 If my math is correct that's 120 ounces? At 50" span that is insanely heavy, must be a LOT of gadgetry going on? As a "sport" flyer, I would think the 54" Beech could be RTF at or under 80 ounces without much trouble.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 07:20:27 AM »
wwwarbird:
I'll stipulate that I build heavy, but the Hornet does have a hollow fuselage and nacelles. Beyond that there are many reasons why scale models have a higher wing loading than sport or stunt models. Twins inherently suffer with two engines and the nacelles. Accurate scale models have pretty short nose moments and twins have short moments to the engines. As a consequence the nacelles of my Hornet have their front ends filled with lots of 3/8" dia. steel bar stock to achieve a flyable CG. Big Heavy Hubs retain the spinners and props. And then there is the "gadgetry:" a receiver and battery, servos for the throttles, flaps, bomb drop, and the associated linkages. Often scale models have details that sport models don't: bombs, bomb pylons, landing gear doors, pitot tubes, gun barrels, antennae, accurately scaled LG struts and wheels. The Hornet has minimal surface detail, but 3-D panel lines and other surface detail really are insanely heavy. Of course a Hornet model would not be right with a silkspan and dope finish on an open structure wing.

The Hornet is heavy, but optimized for SCALE competition. Not so pretty good for stunt ;)

Chuck

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2017, 09:02:17 PM »
 Yep, I get it Chuck, it's tough to avoid but still crazy how heavy the scale models can end up getting. I don't know what Chris's end plan for the Beech is but I think if he just builds it "straight-out-of-the-box" without all the extra functions etc it would do fine with a couple .25's. That, with a nicely done scale paint scheme and some extra cosmetic detail, would make for a really cool vintage fun flier.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 01:37:49 PM »
Hi Wayne and Chuck,
Thanks, I appreciate the two positions, light Sport Scale, full on Designer/ Authentic Scale. I see both as possible.

I could build it with gear and flaps and a decent finish at around 100 oz I think, but I don't know a lot of the component weights. (Scale tires weigh a freaking ton.) I just doubled the normal 20 oz of "stuff" for a stunt ship on top of the guess of an airframe weight, then add a bit from it being a twin, and came up with that.

I can see what Chuck is saying though. It gets away quickly with components, finish, etc. Good to know, thanks for the warning, Chuck! I can see way heavier going towards Authentic Scale.

I'm going with the 40's, going to need the weight anyway because of the short moments like Chuck says. I'm going to have to keep the tail way light. No cherry wood back there (the kit is cherry mostly). All balsa, 4 lbs, careful construction on those surfaces. Flaps and ailerons super light balsa too. Sheeting all balsa, overall. Fuse structure aft of the CG whittled way back.
 
But even after that the gear system, flap system will be a trick to keep light. I'll go real light with mechanical retracts with a retract servo on each. Homemade struts of wire. Maybe my Pattern buddies can make me titanium wire gear. Tailwheel mechanism might be a real problem weight wise, might lose all of the structure weight savings making the gear go up! That little Robart unit isn't too bad, though.

Smallest servo for the flaps with Stunt style horns built way light with smallest wire, etc.
 
Smallest LiPo I can get away with, receivers are tiny now anyway but I'll remove the plastic cover.

Tiniest throttle servos I figure will survive, micros probably are tough enough nowadays.

Wow, what a list! Then all of the details, gear doors, which on a Beech are pretty easy comparatively.

But the cabin, makes a Sport Scale entry a necessity pretty much. A full cabin in a model this size would be a killer weight wise, no doubt. Sheet at the bottom of the window line with clear windows is all I can see being done by me in this lifetime! Maybe vacuum-form and a little airbrush magic, still I'm getting a head ache. The whole cabin model thing is a real conundrum anyway.

Cans of bait all over, not just worms but crickets and lures banned in all 50 states... (please excuse me I'm home sick with the flu, a little loopy here...)

Oh well, fun to think of. Thanks again for the comments and while I have the Nobler finishing going on I'll be able to ponder the Beech between coats...

Chris...

P.S. Here is my Knight Twister wing closed up with 1/16th birch leading edges and 1/16th mahogany sheeting. Too many projects!

     

 

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 08:55:56 PM »

 I'll give you a dollar if it comes in any less than 100 ounces Chris.  :##

 Whatever you do, have fun with it!

 BTW, the Twister wing looks way cool!
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Online Skip Chernoff

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2017, 03:15:56 PM »
Hi everyone,I'm just catching up with this thread. Chris,  the real thank you goes to Steve Dinerman who gave up the Beechcraft when you indicated you would build it. Another kit ,an A26 Invader went to Mark Weiss about three weeks ago.He promised to build his as well.
I have in my possession a "Super Fortress" if I decide not to build it for one reason or another I'll be more than happy to give it to someone who would tackle it.

That's it....Everyone have a happy holiday and remember the words of the late Lew McFarland.....there is no substitute for sandpaper!

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2017, 08:51:58 PM »
Thanks Skip,
Steve Dinerman gets a sincere "Thank You" from me and hope all of these models are finished and flying next season.
Happy Holidays to everyone.
Chris...

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2017, 09:12:00 PM »
I have in my possession a "Super Fortress" if I decide not to build it for one reason or another I'll be more than happy to give it to someone who would tackle it.

 Hmmmmm.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 01:45:11 AM »
I got my two NIB engines, I went with 40 FP's. They look about perfect in physical size and should be plenty powerful for the Beech.
Chris...

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Philly Skip sends cool Scale kit...
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 09:42:40 PM »

 Looking forward to watching this one come together.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member


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