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Author Topic: PDK Fokker DR1 build?  (Read 7454 times)

Offline Rich Perry

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PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« on: January 10, 2017, 06:14:59 PM »
Anyone like to see a build on this one?  

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2017, 07:02:45 PM »
Of course!!   Always interested in airplanes with lots of pieces and something unusual.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 08:08:30 PM »
Rich,

Wow! This is going to be interesting. I'll be glued to it!

From your other great thread on that aircraft to a build.   H^^ Plenty of interest.

If you do a build, you will get plenty of questions.

So here goes.

Wingspan?

Engine?

Where did that great prop come from?

Charles
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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 09:27:33 PM »
I will watch with the usual amount of amazement! H^^
Glenn Reach
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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 09:35:25 PM »
Anyone like to see a build on this one?  

 Darn right!  y1

 Man that's a LOT of ribs. What size Saito?
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 09:12:08 AM »
Ok!   I will do a thread.   

The engine is a .56.   The scale Axial prop is from Xoar. They have a bunch of sizes, but this one is too big.   I was checking to see if it would work as a static prop, but no dice. 

I forgot all of the other specs, but it looks small compared to what I am used to building!  Should be fun. It is well engineered and very nicely cut.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2017, 09:36:16 AM »
Ok!   I will do a thread.  

The engine is a .56.   The scale Axial prop is from Xoar. They have a bunch of sizes, but this one is too big.   I was checking to see if it would work as a static prop, but no dice.  

I forgot all of the other specs, but it looks small compared to what I am used to building!  Should be fun. It is well engineered and very nicely cut.

Perry,

Buckle up! This is going to be a great Build Thread.

OK, where do I get a prop like that? What vendor?

That 4S will come in handy for balance.

Did you plan that?

Charles

P.S.

I found one vendor. Smallest prop is 18", still a monster.

http://the-rc-resource.myshopify.com/collections/vintage-xoar-wwi-german-axial-gas
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2017, 10:42:24 AM »
Yes, I too want to see the construction of this plane.   He does some great work on his kits so this should be a snap.  With that lifting air foil I hope the throttle works well for you.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2017, 11:45:28 AM »
WW-I airplanes are tricky to fly, they tend to nose over easily. Hold the up elevator when you take off and don't apply the power to quickly. Get the model moving slowly then when the horizontal tail has control then apply more power to get airborne.

My Howard Pete was would tip over side to side and had other ground handling problems that had to be managed with elevator control.

Fred
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Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2017, 12:32:11 PM »
  So a bit of history on me.  I have been flying RC scale for the last 10 years, and I have a lot of documentation on the Fokkers.  This is the main reason I wanted to do the DR1.  In looking at the Nats schedule, I wanted to spend a good week there, so I thought I would build a scale model to compete with, the 2 days before the week of CL combat, which has become my primary interest in model aviation right now.

 With all of the experience I have building models through the years, I am sure everyone will get something new from this build,, and I am sure I will learn something new from you all as well.  My plan will be to add a good amount of detail.  I want to build up the tail surfaces, add rib tapes and stitching to the ribs, and hinge the ailerons.  I will also build a more scale axel wing as the way it is drawn on the plans is too thin.

 A few of the things I do that may be a bit different.  I build on glass. I prefer fiberglass cloth to silkspan. The open structures will be covered with very lightweight full scale Dacron (peel ply). And I will use Randolph dope for most everything.  Detail and weathering shading will be done with an airbrush.  This helps a lot executing the streaking effect. 

 And no, there will be no red on this model! 

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2017, 03:14:02 PM »
I fiberglass also, I haven't used dope in probably 20 years. My favorite paint is the Latex house paint with a clear

Fred
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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2017, 04:17:08 PM »
A Dr-I that isn't red!  How can that be....I thought ALL of them were red!  %^@ LL~  Its about time that someone remembered that not all of them were flown personally by the Baron!
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
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Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2017, 09:44:38 PM »
Fred,   what do you use as a clear coat?  I love latex as well, but I have not found it to be fuel proof enough for these smaller models.  On my big gasser  RC planes it is perfect though.

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2017, 06:50:26 AM »
I have been using the Nelson Hobby Specialties Polyurethane Standard clear with the cross linker added to make it fuel proof. I don't think this is available anymore.

I have heard that Rustoleum clear is fuel proof but I haven't tested that yet.

What I like about the latex house paint is that it's easy to spray in the air gun and clean and can get it mixed locally to any paint chip. The cost is much lower than dope.

Fred
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 07:19:11 AM »
A Dr-I that isn't red!  How can that be....I thought ALL of them were red!  %^@ LL~  Its about time that someone remembered that not all of them were flown personally by the Baron!

I liked the recent Red Baron movie where he ordered the enlisted men to paint is plane red.  The next morning it was hand-painted with vertical brush strokes - sloppy work with the camo showing through.  Not like the majority of models we see.
Paul Smith

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 10:19:46 AM »
Hi Paul....what movie is that?  I would love to see another WW1 movie. H^^  The last one I saw was the one where ALL the German planes were red.  Supposedly some sort of artsy thing that the director thought would set his movie above all the others.  Got to love artists!
Glenn Reach
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2017, 11:29:14 AM »
I believe it was Der Rote Baron (the Red Baron) 2008.  The Baron's romantic interest was played by Lena Headey (Cerci Lannister).

As usual, it was blasted by drama critics, but as an aviation fan I liked it.   It seemed to jive with history I've read. 

One theme was The Baron's reluctance to be used for The Kaiser's propaganda program. 
Paul Smith

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2017, 12:02:06 PM »
I believe it was Der Rote Baron (the Red Baron) 2008.  The Baron's romantic interest was played by Lena Headey (Cerci Lannister).

As usual, it was blasted by drama critics, but as an aviation fan I liked it.   It seemed to jive with history I've read. 

One theme was The Baron's reluctance to be used for The Kaiser's propaganda program. 
More important the aircraft were realistic, the flight and fight scenes appeared more realistic, I enjoyed that ^^ movie MUCH more than FLy Boys,,
the standard for me is still "The BLue Max,, "
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Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2017, 12:25:14 PM »
 I had a hard time with Der Rotte Baron.  Mainly because Anthony Fokker was poorly represented, along with his huge, pristine factory.  Also the anti war direction of Richtofen's attitude later in the movie.  Maybe the fact that it is a German movie, they still feel guilty about WW2, and have to go in that direction with their war heroes.

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2017, 12:26:40 PM »
 Whats really a shame, if the directors would just tell the truth, the factual history is far more interesting than anything they can make up. 

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2017, 06:07:14 PM »

 NICE MODELS RICH! y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 05:21:24 AM »
Thanks wwarbirds.   I plan to get started this weekend, once I get past the honey-do's and work today.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2017, 07:34:34 AM »
If the scale judges watched some of movies of Great War (now renamed WWI) airplanes in action they would give the real airplanes a score of 60 out of a possible 100.



Paul Smith

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2017, 05:00:08 PM »
When are you going to start, Rich? Looking forward to it.
Chris...

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2017, 05:38:33 PM »
I need to update a post.  I have started the bottom wing. Will get some pics up tonight.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2017, 06:03:44 PM »
What!  It's not done yet.  I should talk. LL~ LL~  Waiting for pictures. H^^
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Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2017, 09:38:25 AM »
So I began assembly with the bottom wing. It is the most straight forward, so I figured it would be a good place to start. 

The wood and the laser cutting are top notch, and I have not seen an issue with anything so far.  THe ribs half lap notch over the main spars, which really helps line things up.

I started by putting my plans under my glass top, and paste waxing lightly to keep things from sticking.

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2017, 09:46:07 AM »
  When I build on glass, I use tape to hold things down like spars and such instead of pins.  Pins are still used to hold sheeting down and ribs in place.  A little different approach, but the glass is a godsend of a building surface.

  I started by taping the T.E. stock down, and then placing the ribs in position on the spar.  I then glued the ribs to the T.E.  in the positions on the  plans.  This wing builds flat on the board, but it is important to note the main wing spar will be elevated up off the building board as it is located in the undercambered section of the airfoil.  This could be shimmed up with small pieces of balsa, but I did not find it necessary. 

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2017, 09:48:53 AM »
  I use a combination of glues, from thin, medium CA to regular Titebond depending on application.   

Once all of the ribs were glued in place I added the top T.E. sheet and top spar cap.  Titebond and pins here.

Offline James Holford

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Re:
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2017, 10:17:59 AM »
That's what I'm talking about!!!!

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Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2017, 02:59:12 PM »
 I placed tape along the seam of the T.E. and the T.E. sheeting to protect it while block sanding it flat.  Progress and completed bottom wing.

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2017, 03:05:16 PM »
Middle wing mostly framed.  It has the cutout for improved pilot view in the center section. This well engineered model makes this a breeze. 

Looking a bit ahead to the top wing,  the first modification is being made.  I plan to hinge the ailerons to make it more scale, and also allow me to trim for roll if necessary.  I have marked the plans where the ailerons will be cut from the wing at the scale locations.  First is to glue the wing tip to the T.E., and then cut the aileron from the tip in the balance area.  Also, the T.E. will get cut where the aileron begins.

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2017, 03:13:48 PM »
 One note on the Fokker's scalloped trailing edge.  The full scale aircraft had a wire strung at the very tips of the ribs T.E.  After covered with the fabric, and shrunk with the dope, the wire being pulled by the shrunken fabric is what caused the scalloped T.E.   Certainly this would not be an accurate or consistent shape or size.   Naturally for our models simplicity, actually using a wire T.E. would not be practical, especially in a smaller scale.   This area can already be tricky enough to deal with, especially if someone chose to use a film covering.  The use of Dacron and dope for covering renders fabulous results though, as will be seen when this build is being completed.

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2017, 09:00:57 PM »

 Maybe I missed it, what kit are you using here Rich?
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2017, 09:12:55 PM »
  It is a Pat King profile DR1 with a scale cambered airfoil for competition.

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2017, 09:25:53 PM »
  It is a Pat King profile DR1 with a scale cambered airfoil for competition.


 That explains the quality, very nice.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2017, 02:31:57 PM »
I have been getting a lot done, but sorry for the lack of updates.  I will do a photo dump soon.  Everything is framed up.  I just need to sand now.  Especially the fuselage!  The wings are close to covering.  Very easy plane to build. 

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2017, 05:34:11 PM »
Rich,

Looks really good so far. Interesting about that TE on the actual airplane. I didn't know that.

What model/kit is this?

See photo.

Charles
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Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2017, 09:11:01 PM »
Avo,  That is the 1/4 scale Balsa USA Fokker DR1 kit.  That build was a lot of fun as it was the 2nd one that I buil.  My favorite DR1 scheme is  the 404/17 Ritter von Tutschek.   Which will be the same for my PDK kit.   Here she is after completion. DLE 35 cc engine for power.

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2017, 06:08:17 AM »
Rich,

You are the new paint Guru that's for sure.  H^^

Why haven't I noticed your excellent paint work before?

Outstanding!

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2017, 09:17:58 AM »
Thanks Avo.   I would not consider myself a Guru though.  I generally struggle with finish, but the Latex does come out nicely.

Notice on Lothar's face he has oil spattering.  That is actually oil coming from the exhaust of the engine.  Those louvers in front of him are just above the exhaust of the DLE 35.  The engine is buried in the fuselage so that it cannot be seen. The louvers are the best way to evacuate the hot engine air out of the plane.   The scale oily face effect seems to have been a positive and realistic out come of that issue I had to solve.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: PDK Fokker DR1 build?
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2017, 09:32:40 AM »
Thanks Avo.   I would not consider myself a Guru though.  I generally struggle with finish, but the Latex does come out nicely.

Notice on Lothar's face he has oil spattering.  That is actually oil coming from the exhaust of the engine.  Those louvers in front of him are just above the exhaust of the DLE 35.  The engine is buried in the fuselage so that it cannot be seen. The louvers are the best way to evacuate the hot engine air out of the plane.   The scale oily face effect seems to have been a positive and realistic out come of that issue I had to solve.

Rich,

You're too humble.  LL~

I know quality work when I see it. You Post good photos sharing your efforts. A really good thing.

Louvers. I found them on line about a month ago. Inexpensive, but takes a bit of time coming from China. I bought more than needed.

Rich, keep teaching us stuff, it's appreciated.

One day I will build a DR-1, I have a long list.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.


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