stunthanger.com

Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Scale Models => Topic started by: Paul Smith on February 28, 2021, 09:36:41 PM

Title: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: Paul Smith on February 28, 2021, 09:36:41 PM
I submitted a rules change to do away with the odd-ball 1/2A scoring system of 80 static points and 80 flight points for single engine and 84 points for multi-engine.
I propose to use the same 100 static and 100 flight points as ALL other event with the exception of fun scale.

For Static points the 80 point scale does not make it easier to build the models and it just adds confusion to the judging.
The arcane scheme of 40 flight points doubled has NEVER been done correctly in all my experience at The Brodak and The Nats.   Time and again they just use the 40 or 45 points once and fail to double it.  This results in downgrading the value of flying verses static.
Furthermore, the overly simple flight scoring boils to down to takeoff and landing and twins always win.

I am sure things will go much better with 1/2A using the same 100+100 system as the other events.

The 100 flight points will be scored on five 0-20 point items.  It's still 2-lines and no throttles.
Title: Re: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: bob whitney on March 01, 2021, 11:47:31 AM
in my opinion = this rule change will kill 1/2A Scale . one, it will eliminate most of the planes now flying in 1/2A scale. there is only one motor set up for throttle and i don't even think it is made any more. 1/2 A's are hard enough to keep running for 10 laps as it is without needing to throttle them down for stop and go or taxing. most fly this event as a second event to fly .not one to put a lot of extra time into .

three line control will mean more inboard drag meaning more tip weight. 2.4 control will mean more weight on a plane that is probably too heavy to begin with.high flight and such will be almost impossible

i say NO to this rule change, Bob Whitney AMA RAD

Keith, dust off the BEAR S?P
Title: Re: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: Paul Smith on March 01, 2021, 12:11:04 PM
in my opinion = this rule change will kill 1/2A Scale . one, it will eliminate most of the planes now flying in 1/2A scale. there is only one motor set up for throttle and i don't even think it is made any more. 1/2 A's are hard enough to keep running for 10 laps as it is without needing to throttle them down for stop and go or taxing. most fly this event as a second event to fly .not one to put a lot of extra time into .

three line control will mean more inboard drag meaning more tip weight. 2.4 control will mean more weight on a plane that is probably too heavy to begin with.high flight and such will be almost impossible

i say NO to this rule change, Bob Whitney AMA RAD

Keith, dust off the BEAR S?P

You missed my point.  I did not propose using throttles.  It's still 2-line no throttle.   I just changed the flight to five things that pay off 20 points each for a total of 100, making the scoring consistant with other scale events.

The current flight plan really only scores takeoff and landing.   Ten level laps is a gimmie that merely bulks up the score.  "Realism" is a joke.  No 1/2A scale plane flys anywhere near realistic.  So the flight boils down to a smooth landing.

My proposal will not disallow any existing models, but it will give single engines models a chance to score full marks and maybe win a contest.
Title: Re: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: bob whitney on March 01, 2021, 01:15:49 PM
how are u going to do an unassisted take off or taxi without a throttle
Title: Re: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: Paul Smith on March 01, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
how are u going to do an unassisted take off or taxi without a throttle

Like I said, the Takeoff and Landing will continue as with the current rules.  That's two maneuvers with no change.
Level flight ( a worthless gimme) will be replaced with Low Flight.  Not much of a challenge, but at least something to judge.
High Flight, as done in all other scale classes will be added.
Options will offer multi engine, aerobatics, and complexity as ways to earn up to 20 points.

So here's the flight program:

A.  Takeoff
B. Low Flight
C. High Flight
D. Options
E. Landing

20 points each for a total of 100.
Title: Re: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: Fred Cronenwett on May 02, 2021, 09:16:43 AM
How you add up the points for 1/2a scale for the total score is confusing.

There are two possible ways to do it depending up on how many rounds the contest has, 1 or 2 rounds or 3 or 4 rounds

1) flying two rounds at a local contest (one day event)

        get your static score
        fly one or two flights, but either way you double the best flight score and add that to the average static score between the two judges


2) flying four rounds like at the NASA Classic and the Nats

         get your static score
         fly four times, only the two best flight scores apply
         take the two best flight scores add them together then add the static score (avg between the two judges)



If you don't double the flight score the total score is dominated by the static score. Doubling the flight score at least gives the flight score an equal level of points within reason.

It's really important that the 1/2a scores get added correctly at the Nats

1) enter Avg Static Score = _______
2) enter best flight score = ________
3) enter 2nd best flight score = _________

Then add all three of the scores together, this could be a simple work sheet, if the best overall score does get close to 170 then the points were not added up correctly. Anything in the 100 to the 125 range for the best overall score indicates that the two best flight scores were not considered.


6.3.1 1/2a Scale:
1/2a scale maximum static scoring is eighty (80) points. Maximum flight
scoring is forty-five (45) points per flight. If one or two rounds are flown,
the single best flight score is doubled for a maximum flight score of 90
points. If three or four rounds are flown, flight scoring is the summation of
the two best flight scores for a maximum value of 90 points. Total scoring

6.5.2. A Scale.
The flight plan shall consist of three (3) required maneuvers and
(1) over all judgment (realism in flight) listed in sequence. A
maximum of ten (10) points is allocated to each of these four flight
plan elements. Airborne laps have one point is awarded for each
lap completed with all engine(s) running up to ten (10) laps. The
four (4) taken together have a maximum award of forty (40) flight
points. Two (2) bonus points are awarded for multi-engine models,
provided the additional engine(s) run during the majority of the
flight, but excluding landing. The maximum number of flight score
points is forty-five (45). The maximum flight scoring of two flights
is 90 points.
1. Takeoff.
2. Ten (10) Airborne Laps.
3. Landing.
4. Realism and Smoothness in Flight.


6.6.1. 6.6.2 1/2a Scale:

If three (3) or four (4) official flight rounds are scheduled and
flown, then the flight scoring is the summation of the two highest
flight scores. To break a tie, the average of the three (3) best flight Academy of Model Aeronautics
Competition Regulations | Control Line Scale 14
scores will be added to the static score. If this does not break the
tie, then the average of four (4) flight scores will be added to the
static score.

If only one (1) or two (2) official flight rounds are flown during
the event, then the flight scoring will double the single best flight
score. To break a tie, add the single best static score to the total
score.


I had to coach our CL Scale E.D. at the Lafayette Esquadrille Broken Arrow CL scale contest on this which is very different from profile and sport scale events (to be held Sept 18, 2021 at Buder Park)

Fred
Title: Re: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: Paul Smith on May 03, 2021, 06:33:32 AM
The issue might be addressed this way:

Is there any good reason for 1/2A to NOT use the same 100+ 100 = 200 as all other Scale events?

The answer is clearly NO.

Why change?  Answer:  Because judges ALWAYS screw up the scores and results under the current hare-brained system.
Title: Re: New 1/2A scoring proposal
Post by: John Carrodus on May 11, 2021, 12:25:37 PM
Your proposals make a lot of sense to me Paul. My limited observation and participation in this class in NZ is that the majority of points here are given for takeoffs, landing, aerobatics and some points for realism in flight and sound?? Third line or 2.4 throttle allowed for taxi/ touch and go earn extra points. Your proposal appears to level the playing field making it fair and distributing points evenly across the things that matter in this fun and fascinating class of event.