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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Scale Models => Topic started by: John Rist on October 19, 2010, 04:53:39 PM
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Well I have started the Lavochkin La-5 Brodak Kit.
The first step was to design and build a 1 channel electronic throttle controll. That part is finished and works very well. I am thinking of perhaps building a few for sale. My plan is to provide a complete package ready to drop into an airplane. The package will contain the controll head, handle, insulated lines, all the interconnect needed for the airplane. My thinking is that I could provide a Plug-N-play package that requires no soldering. This would make it possible to install withought being into electronics. They will be built one at a time, tailored to the needs of the buyer. Such thing as line length and diameter can be specified by the end user. Also the decal will have the pilots name on it. As custom built it will take a couple of weeks to get one. Not sure of cost yet but price will include a Tom More handle, a set of Brodak insulated lines, connectors etc.
As you can see in the picture I have the wing started. The brodak kit has been spot on so far. Wing is straight and light. More to come as it happens.
#^ #^ #^ #^ #^
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That's looking neat John. #^
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Did the rib tabs help you with the wing build? Did the dihedral come out correctly? I'm enjoying your comments and pics of the build. H^^
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Did the rib tabs help you with the wing build? Did the dihedral come out correctly? I'm enjoying your comments and pics of the build. H^^
The Instruction recommended that you purchase a piece of 1/4" glass and cover it with sheetrock. I had a double thick piece of glass left over from a door that I covered with sheetrock. Turned out to be very flat. I built the wing on this board per the instructions. I didn't even bother to cover the drawing with wax paper. The tab system worked very well. Dihedral is correct and wing is straight. Because of the tabs the wing doesn't really touch the drawing. When I got ready to remove the wing from the board it was only stuck in one or two places. I was able to cut the tab leaving part of the tab on the drawing - no damage to the wing. I wouldn't recommend this as a first kit for a beginner - instructions are OK but require a little understanding of model construction.
H^^
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Hi John, just wondering if you've made any progress on this build? Obviously, I've an interest in it.
Cheers
John Milller
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Well since the last post I have had back surgery. It all went well, cleaned out some bone spurs on L2, L3, L4, & L5. Pain is gone and I am back in business.
Wing is almost finished. Next step is build the wing tips. Looks like this may be the hardest part of the wing. Lots of parts for each tip.
I received the motor, speed controller and batteries. All cheep stuff from China. They say you get whats you pay for - but so far it looks like this set up should work for scale. The motor is a Turnigy C3548-900. Speed controller is a Mystery 60Amp, Batteries are UPO 4C 3000mah ( 3 each). Test stand run yielded 14 volts, 35 amps, 10,300 RPM on a 11 5.5 APCe. Should be more than enough power. Most of the flight is at less than full throttle so the battery should be over kill.
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Wing is finished. It weighs 9 oz. This includes all of the controls including control cable for the electronic throttle. It does not include the 1-1/2 oz wing tip weight. Not the easiest wing I ever built but I didn't have any major problems. Wind tips were the hardest part but between the Brodak instruction book and plans it was OK. It does look good.
Next I will start the tail feathers. Lots of carving of thick blocks of wood to get the corrects airfoil.
D>K
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That's looking good John.
Are your leadouts adjustable?
John Brodak built two of them, one to practise with, and one to fly in contests. He lost the practise plane flying combat with his brother. Keep it light, and it'll really fly well.
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That's looking good John.
Are your leadouts adjustable?
John Brodak built two of them, one to practise with, and one to fly in contests. He lost the practise plane flying combat with his brother. Keep it light, and it'll really fly well.
Right now I have the leadouts located per the print. However they are adjustable if need be - it would be a hassle but they are adjustable. I have the connector for the electronic throttle mounted between the leadouts - buried in the wing tip slot. If I move the leadouts much I would have to cut the connector loose and move it also. As a scale ship I am guessing the location on the plans should be good. I don't plan to do any over head maneuvers.
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Hi John.
Bring the wing to the meeting to night so all the club members can fondle it and get their finger prints on all that nice balsa. LL~ y1
I might - Except up close one can see all of defects! OK I bring it anyway.
LL~
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Figured out the motor mount. Got the how-to from electric section of Stunt Hanger. I may off set motor to out-board side so I can cover in-board side cheek per print. Battery fits between motor rails. I still need to add the plywood doubler on side shown. I will do a cutout for the battery.
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Another awesome project. H^^
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I noticed that you are mounting your motor at the rear. Are you also planning to use a front mount? It looks like the motor and battery should mount quite clean to the profile fuse. Oh, yeah, retracts? #^
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What Ty said. Also The motor came as a rear mount making that the easy way to do it. Becides it moved the mount back far enough to pick up the hard wood motor mount beams. The 1/2" sq hardwood stops about 1 1/2" back and the front is filled with balsa wood. Motor ran smooth on the test stand as a rear mount.
Oh, yeah, retracts? #^
No retracts. Profile scale does not require them. Looks like that is about the only thing that is easier with profile.
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Fuselage is ruffed in and the wing fits. Next I will build the tail feathers. Then comes the Job of putting it all together. Their is quite a bit if work to create the wing to fuselage fairing. The other mystery (right now) is how to handle the landing gears. 3 view shows complicated landing struts. Kit has straight wire. Also I have to work out how to mount the wheel door covers.
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The tail feathers on this model are 1/2" thick blocks of balsa. They have to be sanded to a taper. Per the instructions this can be done with three round rods - 1/2", 5/16, and 3/16. You start out with the 1/2" rod laying against the hinge line and the 5/16" rod laying on the trailing edge. You then block sand till the wood is removed down to the rods. You then flip the work piece and replace he 5/16" rod with the 3/16" rod. Now sand down to the rods again. In order to get it to work I mounted everything to a plywood board. This way things don't move around while sanding. It worked rather well. Pictures attached. Shown is a finished elevator and a unsanded elevator half.
y1
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Very nice looking work on the fuselage and wings. The rod method does make tapering a lot easier, doesn't it.
How much carving to shape do you plan for the top and bottom of the fuselage?
Also, what "type" of paint/finish are you going to use? I have looked around for "dope" in OD, brown, greens and grays, etc., for camouflage, but don't find too many offerings.
Happy New Year
Big Bear
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Brodak still list's OD,brown,gray and several greens etc. in there dope line.
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Brodak still list's OD,brown,gray and several greens etc. in there dope line.
Thanks, Lee. I have gone on Brodak's site and muddled through it a lot. There is just so much there, and it is kinda slow even on cable high speed. I would like to see some paints like the Perfect line that are actual camo colors that you don't have to mix formulas! LOL!! Aero Gloss used to have several, they were even flat, not gloss, and it was easy to do a good camo job then.
Lots of things in the CLPA world you have to spend money on, as you know, and getting larger purchases by the Missus ain't no easy thang! LOL!! (unfortunately, I never had any rich relatives so never had any money left to me, a real problem! LOL!!)
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
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Very nice looking work on the fuselage and wings. The rod method does make tapering a lot easier, doesn't it.
How much carving to shape do you plan for the top and bottom of the fuselage?
Also, what "type" of paint/finish are you going to use? I have looked around for "dope" in OD, brown, greens and grays, etc., for camouflage, but don't find too many offerings.
Happy New Year
Big Bear
Bill,
Carving on the the top and bottom of the fuse is up for discussion. This is my first profile scale other than a 1/2a twin. Dose it really matter? What would a scale judge look for? I mean it is is profile and the top and bottom fuselage view is not to scale.
Reguarding color of dope issue: It is sad. I bought the book Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours 1941-1945 by Erik Pilawskii. The color scheam I plan to use is out of this book (photo attached). The book lists the colors as AMT-4/-6/-7, or green, black, and blue. A search for these color numbers turned up very little. One site JPS Modell had some information and a color chart. But all of the paint I found was in very small jars more in the line of paint used for plastic models. In another post I asked the question how do you document color. As we all know true color is a tough item to achieve. It was suggested that if I have a book with color photo that this would suffice as proof of color. I was told to use the photo in my data pack and paint to match.
This leads to how I plan to paint this model. The first good news is that this is going to be an electric powered model. No nitro - so I can use any type of paint I want. It looks like there is rattle can paint form Lowe's that will match the three colors very well, especially when viewed at 15'.
D>K
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Hi John,
As far as fuselage top and bottom contours, I was asking because I have seen a few different treatments of Profile Scale planes and would like to know if there is an actual preferred method for contest use. It doesn't "seem" to be from my observations.
You bring to attention a very real "positive" for Electric power in Scale! ;D The type of paint used is not critical. I didn't think of that, when asking the question. All the years of fuel proofing jade the mind! LL~ Using the paints you point out could be a very good option for a gas powered model, too, just a good fuel proofing would have to be used. Thanks for the tip.
Since the early '60s, Scale has been about as popular in my mind as Stunt, but actually building a "contest scale model" has been put aside all those years, and semi scale or scale stunters, depending on the plane, has been the limit for me, although I do like those subjects the best for stunt.
We were having an unofficial stunt event at Huntersville for a time, but that has been dropped, AFAIK.
Looking forward to the completion pf the La-5!
Bill
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John,
I just bought some exterior latex paint from Home Depot for a DH-4 I am building. Color matched to the Solartex covering. They have "sample" sizes at 7.5 ounces for $2.94 plus tax. Can't beat the price. I may get to paint a couple pieces later this weekend and see how well the color match is after it dries, but it looks good in the can. Even has a screw on lid which is nice for our purposes. It looked to me like the color match machine only needed about a square inch of sample.
Chuck
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John,
I just bought some exterior latex paint from Home Depot for a DH-4 I am building. Color matched to the Solartex covering. They have "sample" sizes at 7.5 ounces for $2.94 plus tax. Can't beat the price. I may get to paint a couple pieces later this weekend and see how well the color match is after it dries, but it looks good in the can. Even has a screw on lid which is nice for our purposes. It looked to me like the color match machine only needed about a square inch of sample.
Chuck
Chuck
I had considered latex - how do you plan to apply it? Brush, Spray .......?
???
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John,
I just bought some exterior latex paint from Home Depot for a DH-4 I am building. Color matched to the Solartex covering. They have "sample" sizes at 7.5 ounces for $2.94 plus tax. Can't beat the price. I may get to paint a couple pieces later this weekend and see how well the color match is after it dries, but it looks good in the can. Even has a screw on lid which is nice for our purposes. It looked to me like the color match machine only needed about a square inch of sample.
Chuck
Hi Chuck,
Is this for electric or "gas"? If gas, what fuel proofing is needed?
BTW: A Thompson Trophy scale plane for one of those hot .40s is coming! y1 ;D
Thanks, guys!
Bill
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John, I have used latex one time before and sprayed it. Dilute with windshield washer fluid. A lot of the R/C scale guys also add a product called Flotrol to get it to flow out better. I won't bother for the small parts I'm doing. On the DH-4 I will be brushing some areas that are too small to bother masking off and spraying a section of cowl, radiator, and a whole bunch of struts.
Bill, I hear that the exterior latex is resistant to gasoline fuels, but not glow fuel. The DH-4 will be gasoline powered and the exhaust should not get on much of the model. The standard practice is to clear coat the model for protection. On a glow powered model I would most likely use Klass Kote epoxy. No decision made yet on the Dh-4. I'm building it on contract for a friend in my R/C club and it is really his choice. It is covered with Solartex. I have used oil-based polyurethane to seal and protect Solartex before on a glow model. Not really necessary, but makes cleanup easier. Water based polyurethane is supposed to be good to protect from gasoline fuels.
It's a big 'un
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TOO BIG FOR ME!!!!!!!!!! (and I ain't never been "little" LOL!!)
Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the info.
(how about a scale Hall Racer enlarged to fit the "red head" HOT .40?? LOL!!)
Bill
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When you use latex, what kind of base do you apply it over - a traditional dope finish? Do you have any trouble with it bonding - can you use masking tape over it? Then it sounds like you finish it off with a flat water base urethane?
I am contemplating a warbird stunter (electric) that would benefit from such a finsih - provided it was also light and durable in normal handling.
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I have personally only used the latex over a glass and epoxy substrate. And with epoxy primer too. Lots of information on the R/C scale sites such as rcscalebuilder.com I don't recall any problem with masking.
Chuck
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I've used water based acrylics, specifically rustoleum brand, in the small cans, for a finish coat. I applied it with a spray gun over a dope finish base. It was a treat using water based pant, especially when it came to cleaning the gun.
After at least a 24 hour cure, I used masking tape to make the trim, and sprayed it on.
Since I was looking for a glossy finish, I sprayed several coats of clear dope over the top. As far as I know, rustoleum is fuel proof if dealing with colors.
I like the idea of having the paint department match the color chips, and custom mixing the paint. H^^
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The next step was to mount the elevator haves together with the Brodak offset control horn. This requires drilling a hole at right angle to the centerline of the elevator. The elevator is now tapered making it difficult to place it vertical on the drill press. I solved the problem by using the same round rod that was used to sand the elevator to a taper and a square. Worked well - see photo.
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Hi John,
Great solution to the problem. I like your approach to things, a great attention to the little details, and the plane is looking great because of it.
Big Bear
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Always a way to skin the cat. %^@
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John Rist,
The plastic model paints would be perfect for your electric model. I think Humbrol makes specific Russian colors. Check squadron.com.
Chris...
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John Rist,
The plastic model paints would be perfect for your electric model. I think Humbrol makes specific Russian colors. Check squadron.com.
Chris...
HI Chris,
Humbrol surely did make the Russian colors at one time, but have you checked out the prices on a tiny tin of Humbrol lately? LOL!!!!!!
I used Humbrol almost exclusively back in the early '70s for IPMS work, along with an excellent but short lived line of paints that I cannot remember the name of. Scale Colors or something similar.
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A little more progress. PS Snow in Alabama is a big deal. LL~
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Looking really good John. Sorry about the snow, we let some slip by I'm afraid. ~>
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We tried to keep it here in KANSAS, but I guess we can't stop all of it. Amazing in some areas they measure 7 inches and other not even 4 inches. By the way the plane is looking good. Now is this kit as bad as you say it is or is it a builders kit?? D>K
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By the way the plane is looking good. Now is this kit as bad as you say it is or is it a builders kit?? D>K
In general it is a really nice kit. Admittedly I have had to scratch my head a few times to get to the end results. Also I have found minor differences in the plans, book and parts. However nothing worth getting upset over. After all it is a scale ship and therefore somewhat harder to build than say a Ringmaster. As you put it, I would call it a builders kit. Half the fun in scale is putting your personal touch on a project.
#^ #^ #^ H^^ D>K
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I have been mulling over what paint scheme to use on my LA-5. The first good photo I come up with is known as the white 60. I went surfing on the web for LA-5 and found red 22. This is a winter camo (white) paint scheme. I like this one because it is two colors however it still has a very complicated decal over the star. I then located red 57. It is a strange mix of winter camo and regular camo. However the photo that inspired this rendition did not have writing over the star. Evidently The original photo was taken right after the plane left the factory. The red lettering was later added by the local air force. I am leaning toward the red 57. It dose have 4 colors but it does not have the lettering.
:!
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Interesting paint scheme John. It's certainly different, though I like the writing on the side personally, but I'm not trying to apply the finish.
I'm sure you already know this, but Russian WW2 fighters did not have the red stars on the upper surface of the wings, only on the bottom. I constantly see models of these planes sporting the big bright red stars on the upper surfaces.
I was told that they did this so the camo on the upper wings would not be interupted, and make the plane easier to spot from above. They wanted the star on the under surfaces to help their ground forces identify their own planes.
Keep up the great work. H^^
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Interesting paint scheme John. It's certainly different, though I like the writing on the side personally, but I'm not trying to apply the finish.
I'm sure you already know this, but Russian WW2 fighters did not have the red stars on the upper surface of the wings, only on the bottom. I constantly see models of these planes sporting the big bright red stars on the upper surfaces.
I was told that they did this so the camo on the upper wings would not be interupted, and make the plane easier to spot from above. They wanted the star on the under surfaces to help their ground forces identify their own planes.
Keep up the great work. H^^
I too perfer the look of the all white winter camo. However if you look at the lettering it is stenciled and changes color as it crosses the red star. I guess I could make a red version and a white version and splice the two together. By the way white is a real problem with decals. If you are using clear decal stock printers don't print white. You almost need a silkscreen process to get white on clear. Photo of other side attached. I guess I could do the lettering but it may be beyond my ability to do a good job. Besides I thought profile was supposed to be easy -- LL~
By the way thanks for the info about no red stars on the top of the wing. I was one of many that thought there were red stars on top.
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Looking at the lettering another approach may be to create the pink on clear decal lettering. Apply it and paint the white where it crosses the star by hand. This is an electric model so fuel proofing is not a problem. I am not sure what type of paint will work on a decal surface but plastic model paint should work. How to sugestions appriciated.
:!
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Hmmm John,
A good stencil cutter, like Jim Snelson's wife over at CLC, should be able to provide either a paint stencil, or a vinyl decal that would solve the masking problem for the side of the La-5. H^^
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Hmmm John,
A good stencil cutter, like Jim Snelson's wife over at CLC, should be able to provide either a paint stencil, or a vinyl decal that would solve the masking problem for the side of the La-5. H^^
Gareat ideal. I have emailed Emily at CLC and she is working with me to see if we can work a solution. It looks like a paint stencil will be best.
By the way I have found another minor discrepancy in the Brodak Kit. The USSR red star decals are outlined in white. The information I have is they should be outlined in black. I can fix but more work.
H^^
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I'm sure Emily will be able to set you up with what you need. I really like the looks of "Red 22" in winter camo.
In case you haven't seen it, here's a pic of John Brodaks Nats winning LA-5 from a few years back. H^^
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The white camo, red 22 it shall be. I am working on the artwork for the decales. I have one side finished. It only took 6 houres of computer time to extract the writing from the picture. LL~
Thanks for the photo of Brodak's La-5. It does bring up one of the last big problems I will have building this ship - the landing gear. How do you convert a stright peice of wire to look likes Brodak's gear? HB~>
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To convert straight wire into landing gear, place in vice and bend as many times as needed. If that doesn't work, try another peice. Repeat till it works. If it fails to the point that your hobby shop has no more wire, order the landing gear from John! :## H^^
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To convert straight wire into landing gear, place in vice and bend as many times as needed. If that doesn't work, try another piece. Repeat till it works. If it fails to the point that your hobby shop has no more wire, order the landing gear from John! :## H^^
I have John's Fancy piece of bent wire (came in the kit). What I need is the versions that has the the shocks, struts and attached wheel doors. It also looks like John put wheel wells in the bottom of the wing. This feature is not on the plans or in the kit.
I thought profile was supposed to be easy!
HB~> HB~> HB~> LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Hi John. Al Rabe did an amazing pictorial on Stuka Stunt on how to paint wheel well openings on and make them look REAL. Do a search there on him and look for painting and finishing. I believe it was one of his P-51's. And as far as the actual strut goes, you can always ask John! Love your project and have been watching it closely. H^^
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John,
The three-dimensional buildup on the struts it can be done with brass or aluminum tubing. Or Robart sells a plastic piece that fits over the music wire leg.
Chuck
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I have John's Fancy piece of bent wire (came in the kit). What I need is the versions that has the the shocks, struts and attached wheel doors. It also looks like John put wheel wells in the bottom of the wing. This feature is not on the plans or in the kit.
I thought profile was supposed to be easy!
HB~> HB~> HB~> LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
John B's plane had retracts originally, designed and built by Bob Zambelli. I understand they had an issue with them so they were removed, and the gear locked in place. With the new timers from Hubin, retracts are a cinch with electric power as you are planning.
The wells for retracts are not on the plans, as at the time it was not a feature that was considered.
Your graphics are coming along great. Your project is coming along really good. H^^
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I had not planned to install retracts. The rules state that they are not required for profile scale. I plan to omit retracts for several reasons - cost, weight, and effort. I decided to go profile/electric to keep the project down to a level I can handle (cost and skill). Right now I plan to use the stock kit landing gear with some detail added. I'm thinking the landing gear can be dressed up with dowel rods of various sizes and some paint. Right now I plan to fake the wheel wells with trim and paint - same as the panel lines, rivets, & etc. My experience with scale judging is that I will never get close to 100 - so 100 of hours of extra effort and 100 of $ probable won't improve my score. But who knows - a scale ship is never finished ---------------- :P and I am having fun!!!! #^
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Hi John,
You can split the various sizes of styrene plastic tube sold at the LHS to make the struts look more scale. Evergreen (styrene) and Plastruct (ABS) are two common sources.
Big Bear
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Hi John,
You can split the various sizes of styrene plastic tube sold at the LHS to make the struts look more scale. Evergreen (styrene) and Plastruct (ABS) are two common sources.
Big Bear
Sounds good. I will check it out Thanks! #^
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Sounds good. I will check it out Thanks! #^
Hi John,
I hope it helps. I was heavily involved in building plastic display models at one time. IPMS contests and such, and there are a LOT of things the plastic modeler uses that can be used in our "flying models". Especially for scale details. I know in the past I even used watch gears for trim tab wheels, and such, in the cock pit. Model Railroad details can be used too.
Bill
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Shoulder replacement went well. I am slowly regaining the use of the arm. I already have the full use of my hand at key board level. I am back working on the LA-5 decals (all done on the computer). Control Line Centrial has agreed to cut the stencils for the lettering on the sides. I will get this done done as soon as I finish the art work. I start by sucking the color photo of the aircraft (downloaded off of the net) into a program called paint. With paint I cut and paste the lettering into a new file. I then dump this new file into a graphics program called Visio. I enlarge it to a file 150" long. I then trace each letter segment with a filled polygon. By using many points I can simulate smooth curves and straight lines. When the tracing is finished I can delete the original picture (it is a single object) and have nothing but the black lettering left. I then do some careful measuring on the picture and my model and determine the actual size needeed for the final stencils. I shrink the 150" decal down to size needed (10" to 15") and walla I have the master needed for Control Line Central to produce a decal. Attached is the cut and paist photo I started with and the resulting art work for the stencile. I am working on the other side. PS the below is low res for posting. The actual artwork is much smoother.
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Hi John,
Excellent work on the decals/stencils artwork!
I use coreldraw (an older edition) for my artwork, which is about the same according to your description.
Pictures! LOL!!
Bill
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Hi John,
Any more progress since the shoulder surgery? Keep updating as it nears completion, OK?
It's been very interesting to follow your progress.
Bill
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Hi John,
Any more progress since the shoulder surgery? Keep updating as it nears completion, OK?
It's been very interesting to follow your progress.
Bill
It's cutting into my nap time but I am getting back to building. Started tail wheel assembly. I will post more when I get in full swing.
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Well I have finished the tail wheel. It is pretty much per the Brodak Print. However it is longer than the tail wheel on the picture. The 3 view I have does not show the tail wheel. Of course at 15' it my not matter.
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Looks good to me. As they don't have precision scale any more, do they still measure or just eye ball every thing? H^^
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Real nice job on the scale strut. It looks like it is going to be very nice when finished, John!
Big Bear
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Looks good to me. As they don't have precision scale any more, do they still measure or just eye ball every thing? H^^
I am not sure about Precision scale being completely gone but my LA-5 is a profile scale ship. Everything is judged at 15'
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Well the wing is squared up to the fuselage and tacked in place with CA. A good double check on strightness and I will epoxy it in. Next step it to flare the leading edge into the fuselage.
D>K H^^
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The leading edge has been flared into the fuselage. The plans and the book are different. The instruction book was the best source for this step.
y1 H^^
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Back to the subject of wheel struts: It looks like Robart has a strut that is close. A little work and it will be OK.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXET59&P=7
The one I would love to have is: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXES65&P=ML But at $80 a pair I can't see it. It is a real shock - I wounder if it would help or hurt the landing.
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Al Rabe uses a soft sprung landing gear. He says it helps prevent bounce, but you have to get the right tension or it enhances the bounce!
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John, I have that type strut on my Hornet, Typhoon, and HS-129(two Robart, one some unknown brand). They help landings a big bunch!
Chuck
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John, I have that type strut on my Hornet, Typhoon, and HS-129(two Robart, one some unknown brand). They help landings a big bunch!
Chuck
Very intersting! They may be worth the price. A previous post states that the spring tension needs to be correct. Is there a way to vary the spring tension on the Robart?
:! D>K
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John, you can take them apart and replace the springs or add a spacer to increase the pre-load.
Chuck
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Well it's time to start dopeing the airframe getting it ready to cover. I plan to cover the whole airplane with silk span. I have on hand Brodak Butyrate Dope, Butyrate Sanding sealer, and Brodak Butyrate thinner. From what I read in the finishing section I am guessing the following is a way to go.
1. Dope intire wood structure with 50-50 thinner/dope.
2. Sand between coats - repeat three times for three coats.
3. Apply silk span wet. Dope in place with 60 - 40 thinner/dope
4. Several coats of Sanding Sealer 50 -50 thinner/dope.
5. Prime with ?
6. Paint with Rustoleam.
This will be my first Silkspan covered airplane since 1960. All of what I have done lately has been Monacoat. SO all comments welcome.
By the way I needed to build a paint stick. Beings this is an electric I came up with the idea of using the mounting plate off of the motor to make a paint stick. Photos attached.
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When I put my silkspan or poly-span on I usually but enough clear dope on the surface wood, thinned to 50-50, til it gets a little sheen to it. Sanding every other coat. Two coats a day max and let sit for a day. Use the thinned dope to put the silkspan/poly spand down. One thing I like about dope and I forgot it from my combat days with silk, is if I see a wrinkle, I dope and pull again. H^^
Now are you ssure the rod for your paint stand is big enough? H^^ H^^I should talk as my paint stand has a steel/iron rod.
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quote "Now are you ssure the rod for your paint stand is big enough? H^^ H^^I should talk as my paint stand has a steel/iron rod."
When you are pore you use what you have - In this case an old closet rod. LL~ LL~
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CLS sent the spray masks for the lettering. They look great!! H^^
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Well I am making progress on the landing gear. They will be fixed (retracts not a requirement for profile scale). The Brodak LA-5 kit pretty much leaves the landing gear up to the builder. The kit does have the bent wire for the gear and some wood for the wheel doors. The plans do show the gear installed however the book has no instructions for building a scale looking gear. I will be using Robart scale struts, wood dial rod, and a pair of RC car shocks along with the stuff that came in the kit. The only info I have is from the 3 View.
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Hi John. Al Rabe did an amazing pictorial on Stuka Stunt on how to paint wheel well openings on and make them look REAL. Do a search there on him and look for painting and finishing. I believe it was one of his P-51's. And as far as the actual strut goes, you can always ask John! Love your project and have been watching it closely. H^^
I went and looked at Al Rabe's P-51 painted wheel wells. They were done in Zinc Chromate because we are talking raw aluminum inside the aircraft. Did the USSR prime the LA-5 aluminum parts with Zinc Chromate? If this be true the inside of the gear doors and wheel wells would be Zinc Chromate and the outside of the gear doors would be blue.
What is the most likely color of the wheel struts? The sliding shock members are shiny steel - what color would the struts themselves be?
??? ??? ???
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John, most of the reading I've done on the La's and LaGGs point out that the Russians were realists, with a shortage of aluminum to use to build fighters with, at least until the Lend-Lease program got running up to steam, but they had lots of wood. Much of their fighter aircraft only lasted a month or so in the field, so even using any kind of preservative was not usually done.
I'm not certain how much wood was used in wing construction beyond the spar and ribs. Most likely they were skinned with some type of plywood. If you can get a picture of the inside of the gear wells, I'd almost bet that the colors used are basically the same as the outside.
This lack of preservatives has been the reason few WWll Russian fighters have survived. H^^
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John, most of the reading I've done on the La's and LaGGs point out that the Russians were realists, with a shortage of aluminum to use to build fighters with, at least until the Lend-Lease program got running up to steam, but they had lots of wood. Much of their fighter aircraft only lasted a month or so in the field, so even using any kind of preservative was not usually done.
I'm not certain how much wood was used in wing construction beyond the spar and ribs. Most likely they were skinned with some type of plywood. If you can get a picture of the inside of the gear wells, I'd almost bet that the colors used are basically the same as the outside.
This lack of preservatives has been the reason few WWll Russian fighters have survived. H^^
It looks like you are correct. The LA-5 was wood construction.
The Lavochkin La-5 was based on the Lavochkin LaGG-3.1,4,5 The La-5 also had an all wood construction.1 The La-5FN used metal and wood construction.5
Above was found at: http://www.wwiivehicles.com/ussr/aircraft/fighter/lavochkin-la-5.asp
So it is highly likely that the inside of the wheel wells were the same color as the outside. I suspect the wheel doors were also plywood.
Thanks John all good stuff
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Well I have one gear strut finished - now to make the other one look the same! I should start covering this bird this week.
#^
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What type of wheel do you have there, looks less fat than the avg. 'r.c. wheel !
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What type of wheel do you have there, looks less fat than the avg. 'r.c. wheel !
Low Bounce Model Aircraft Wheel by Robart. P/N 116- 3-1/2" Scale Straight Tread. Paid about $15 for the pair. Comes with axle bushings for 1/8', 5/32", 3/16", & 1/4". Also comes with spoked or smooth center hub cover.
D>K H^^
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John,
I just bought some exterior latex paint from Home Depot for a DH-4 I am building. Color matched to the Solartex covering. They have "sample" sizes at 7.5 ounces for $2.94 plus tax. Can't beat the price. I may get to paint a couple pieces later this weekend and see how well the color match is after it dries, but it looks good in the can. Even has a screw on lid which is nice for our purposes. It looked to me like the color match machine only needed about a square inch of sample.
Chuck
Just bought a 7.5 ounce sample jar of white latex from Home Depot. Also bought some Floetrol additive. Elsewhere it is recommend that I use windshield washer fluid to thin the latex. Any suggestions as to how much Floetrol to use and how much to thinner to add. And what is the advantage of using windshield washer fluid as a thinner?
??? ??? ??? :! :)
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John, what little bit I have used latex, I did not use Floetrol. I have used both WW fluid and plain water to thin. I doubt I measured; just enough to get it through the gun. Don't worry about it looking rough or orange peeled when first sprayed--it will flow out nicely. Biggest worry I had was runs, hence minimizing thinner.
Chuck
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OK - Today I finished covering the wood frame with polyspan and silkspan. This was my first stab at this procedure. All in all it looks OK. I did apply the silkspan wet. That worked very well. I did find out wet silk span is almost impossible to cut with an exato knife (even with a new blade). I found it best to mark with a pencil and precut with sharp scissors to fit around the wing etc. On the edge just let it extend past and trim after the dope dries some. The fuzzy edges and any minor wrinkles Can be removed by rubbing with a folded paper towel soaked in thinner. In fact your finger and the folded paper towel are the main tools needed to get rid of wrinkles and bubbles.
I have a few spots that are not perfect. Hopefully 3-4 coats of sanding sealer and some light sanding will eliminate most of the ugly spots. However I have been told that an aircraft needs some ugly drag to fly well! LL~ Should be able to post pictures next week of an airplane ready for its first color coat. In this case USSR winter white.
H^^
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Ready for a paint job. 3 coats of sanding sealer a light sanding and then a latex finish.
#^ H^^
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Ready for paint! I am doing all the Little thing such as mount the landing gear while the dope cures. I figure a couple to 3 days should be enough cure time.
#^ D>K
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Didn't like the original esc I bought. It was too hard to setup (no program card). So I bought a Trunigy Plash-60A (60 amp x 6S unit) and the programing card. I finally got around to testing it today. Setup was Trunigy Plash-60A ESC, Trunigy C3548-900 motor, Win Force 3000 4S - 35C battery, APC 11x5.5E prop. Mounted in the the test stand at full throttle the motor ran for 4 minutes 10 seconds at which time ESC shut off the motor. Current draw was around 37 amps. RPMs were 10,300. Recharge took 2391 mah. For a 3000 mah pack this is about 79% capacity. At end of the run battery and motor were warm but comfortable to touch. ESC was close to room temperature. SO all-in-all I feel that I have a good working setup.
About 1/2 of a scale flight is at less than full throttle. Air time for a flight is no more than 3 minutes. SO it looks like I have plenty of battery and 10K on a 11x5.5 prop is plenty of power. I am HAPPY!
#^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^
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In the category of you gets what you pay for I bought a Haber Freight detail gun. I was having trouble getting it to work properply. It kept quitting after a little spray time. I would open the lid look to see if it had paint left - and it would work again. Well to make the long story short the air vent hole in the lid was molded shut. I fixed it! works great now.
HB~> b1 b1 b1 b1 :! :! #^ #^
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Isn't it always something simple. Glad you got it fixed. H^^
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Well just spent most of the afternoon redrawing the ussr stars that go on my LA-5. The ones in the Brodak kit had two problems for me. The ship I am copying has red stars with black borders. The Brodak stars have white borders. Also I found them to be about 20% to big when compaired to the photo I am using. No big deal mine look good now. Attached is the photo I am trying to match.
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That is going to be something when finished. H^^
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That is going to be something when finished. H^^
WOW John, I didn't know you were coming over and going to help me paint this bird. My finishing ability is suspect. But hay, this is profile scale so all I need is a 15' finish.
LL~
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Read your rules again. BOM remember. I can't do any of the finish for ya. VD~ VD~ VD~
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Well the bottom of the wing is finished!!!
#^ #^ #^ #^ #^
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It is people like you that caused me to give up modeling.
Great looking work. I could only wish to be that good.
Tom Wilk
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SWEET!!! rd
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Tail almost finished.
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John, you are doing an EXCELLENT job! The tail wheel assembly looks sweet.
Big Bear
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Well all I need now is a finished airplane to put in my new toy box! LL~
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Now that is PRO quality!--LOUIE H^^ H^^ D>K
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Well every body is at the Nats and I am home getting ready for the FMA. Finally got the side lettering on the beast. Now for the part I hate the most - install the canopy. Earlier in this post is a picture of the airplane I am copying
n~
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Starting to look too good to fly . S?P ;D
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Well it's almost finished. The dreaded canopy is finished. As it turns out a profile canopy is easier than a full body canopy. It is pretty simple to glue it to a flat side. #^
PS that's a real WW II USSR pilot. Scanned out of a book - Souiet Air Force Fighter Colours 1941-1945
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I like it. H^^
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Pavel Likholetov (LA-5 pilot I scanned for my cockpit) can now talk to tower. He has an antenna for his radio.
#^
PS. What makes good antenna wire for a model?
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Try some nylon fishing line. It's somewhat stretchy and can survive the inevitable handling mishaps. Another trick is that it will shrink some if heated.
John Witt
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John,
I have some 50# nylon fishing line however it is clear. It probbly should be black? Any thoughts?
??? #^
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Wipe the line with 400 grit sand paper a couple of times and then use a Sharpie on it. Paint will stay for awhile, but gradually rubs off. Antennas are usually bare wire and oxidize to black fairly quickly.
Just my thoughts...
John
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Wipe the line with 400 grit sand paper a couple of times and then use a Sharpie on it. Paint will stay for awhile, but gradually rubs off. Antennas are usually bare wire and oxidize to black fairly quickly.
Just my thoughts...
John
Have Sharpie will give it a try! Thanks!
H^^
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Wipe the line with 400 grit sand paper a couple of times and then use a Sharpie on it. Paint will stay for awhile, but gradually rubs off. Antennas are usually bare wire and oxidize to black fairly quickly.
Just my thoughts...
John
John,
You are the antenna expert. As I said I had the 50 # test line. Was bought years ago to fix a wind chime. did the 400 grit sanding as you recommended. However I was having trouble getting the Sharpie to cover 360. SO I drilled a 1/16" hole through the Sharpie tip and fed the line through the hole. Multiple passes back and forth through the hole and I had black fishing line! Knots didn't look right so I secured the ends by wrapping them with copper wire. A little white paint and the wrap looks like a insulator (at 15'). Photo attached is at 6" to show detail - however at 15' looks spot-on! Thanks John! This BB is the best!
#^ #^ #^ #^ H^^
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Looks good, John. Solving problems like this is one of the things I like about scale modeling: How to create the illusion!!
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Well it's almost ready for the first flight. Built and installed the Pitot Tube today. Also have mounted motor, speed controller, and battery. Appears the CG will be spot on withought adding weight. Things to do: Install wheels, Air brush some exhaust and mud streaks, Build a set of lines, and test fly (not necessarily in that order).
#^ #^ #^
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Far enough along to get an accurate weight. It came in under the 150 oz my last airplane weighed LL~
This one ONLY weighs 69 oz. Not light by stunt standers but all that looking good cost weight. Besides all it has to do is fly smooth and level and be able to grease landings.
LL~ LL~
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Well it looks like I will make the FCM at AMA August 26, 2011. Flew the LA-5 this morning. WOW! what a sweet flying airplane. Also Electric power is wounderfull. It was a short flight - about 20 laps. Take off was: Bring up the throttle slowly and she went airborne at 1/2 throttle. Flew several laps and landed. Did this 3 times. Never did get past 1/2 throttle. Started to rain so I packed and ran.
What I learned:
1) The Brodak LA-5 flies great even at 4-1/2 lb. Build it as a sport model at around 3 lb and this would be a fun to stunt scale ship.
2) Electric power is the only way to. Absolutely no hassle to set up. Bad motor runs will be a rare thing of the past. Don't get me wrong, eclectics can smoke causing a DNF but I have had 3 DNF's with wet engines and they were working well.
3) Ship was a little up-down sensitive. Need to reduce elevator throw and add a little noise weight.
4) Ship was clean when I landed - No SLIME!
5) I flew at 7 AM next to a bunch of houses - No NOISE - every body was happy.
Am going out of town for a couple of day. Will finish her up and post final pictures, setup, and lap times etc when I get back.
Ty I will give you a call when I return and yes I do want pictures! - It's great have a good flying scale ship!!
#^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^
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Thans for the great news, now go get em. H^^
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John
Glad to hear that it flies well, I agree electrics are the way to go. I flew my first contests this year with electrics and I love them.
one word of caution on the motor. Those Gold Turnigy's have a pretty soft prop adapter. it doesn't take much of a prop strike to bend them. I prefer the 5mm shaft motors like the blue and red 3648. The prop mounts directly on the shaft. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8486 , they are harder to mount but very strong. I use the 3648 on my profile carrier plane, I broke the prop on both flight , (carrier planes can hit hard). The softer type prop adapter would not have survived.
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John,
I'm really excited to know you plan on the FCM! I can't wait to meet you there! (Might even treat you to a hot dog.)
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John, great news regarding the first flight. I knew it would be a good flying plane for you, a a great airobatic sport flyer as well. I'm looking forward to more flight reports in the future. H^^
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Congrats on the nice first flight. That's always a wonderful moment when you see daylight under the wheels. Good luck at the FCM. Wish I could be there to see it in person, but I can't afford to make that trip twice in a year.
Best to you,
John
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Sounds great, John! If it is at all possible I would love to make it to FCM this year. Who knows, if I get medical clearance I might can! ;D I have not been to the Muncie site since 2004........... :'( Actually flying in a contest will be icing on the cake!
Big Bear
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I'm curious John, I need more flight reprts on your progress. y1
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I'm curious John, I need more flight reprts on your progress. y1
It is going well. The biggest problem is the pilot (me). I have flown very little the last 12 months and I am rusty. My major problem is over correcting generating a ragged looking flight path. I put in a fairly long flight session yesterday and by the end of it things were looking much better. The LA5 and it electric motor system seem to be working well. I dumped all 3 battery packs yesterday and at the end of each flight the motor, battery and speed controller were just warm –prop and motor setup are happy. Line pull was good throughout the throttle range. Take off was just about a 10 every time. She rolls out smooth picks up the tail – more smooth roll and a gentle lift off. Landings were another matter. At first I was trying to do a little flare at touch down. But this doesn’t work because she wants to fly – any up and the LA5 is airborne again. What seem to work best with this aircraft is slightly elevated power and establish a smooth sink rate. Let aircraft touch down. Apply a small amount of down elevator to keep airplane on ground. Cut power let tail settle down - full up as LA5 rolls to a stop. So far it looks like this is going to be fun flying ship. I love the electric!
#^
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Sounds like you are getting the hang of it. Team race landing style helps on a lot of planes. It is hard to teach or learn as everyone including myself think up on touch down. When gear is set right and just enough down to keep plane on the ground, the tail will drop as speed bleeds off. Now don't go bruising the pavement with it. H^^
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Went flying this morning. Put in some really impressive flights. The LA5 is a really good flyer. On each of the three battery packs I first flew the scale pattern that I plan to use. With the remainder of the pack I practice the maneavers that I executed poorly. Several more flights and I should be good to go. The only concern I have now is windy conditions. Right now north Alabama in under a stationary front. No wind for the last several days. All pratice has been hot no wind conditions.
y1
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Good flight report. The plane is designed for main wheel landings, so they should be very realistic. I'd wager that minor aerobatics, and inverted flight should be possible. #^ #^ H^^
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Good flight report. The plane is designed for main wheel landings, so they should be very realistic. I'd wager that minor aerobatics, and inverted flight should be possible. #^ #^ H^^
True - but the pilot is chicken! LL~
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Clairfication: When bending wire for landing gear
Clamp wire in vice
Bend as needed
If wire will not bend get a bigger Hammer!
Clancy
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Well it's all did and done! #^ I have about 10 test flights and it flies great. Did the paint touch up and took photos. I should make the FCM at AMA Saturday the 27, 2011 ( barring a disaster or bad weather). This has been a fun project! Thanks for all the help and advice. This BB is the best. H^^
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Still looks great. Now go have fun. H^^
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Well it do fly good! #^ Photo by Grant Hiestand at the FCM @ AMA contest August 27, 2011
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Well THATS Good . We had been Wondering . Reecently even .Thanks for the update .
Looks very representitive of the 5 in the air too . H^^
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I had the privilege of judging John at the FCM on Saturday. Wow, incredible, accurate, and extensive detail!! This is one super quality airplane obviously built by a very particular modeler. Very nice, John, very nice. His flights were really good, he didn't look out of practice to me.
We had only three fewer airplanes at the FCM than what the nats had! Wonderful turnout, and all the fliers were good pilots. We didn't get done until nearly 6:00! I was whipped but happy. Thanks for coming, John, and to all the rest as well.
Blessings,
Will
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John:
Nice job, John. A very complete model, well done. Of particular interest to me was your entire posting and how it took off. The interest that it generated was phenomenal. All the way from "I just opened the kit" through to "a picture at FCM", the posting really generated interest. Most of us think of posting something usually once the model is complete or near completion. You took it all the way through. You should write for the magazines. Congratulations.
Jim Fruit
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What Jim just said.