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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Scale Models => Topic started by: Avaiojet on November 17, 2015, 09:37:57 AM
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I have been thinking about converting my Gee Bee Z to CL. I've mentioned it.
I'm not sure I'm up to it?
This project, to do it right, won't be as easy as it may seem.
Knocked myself out just getting the wire landing gear all set up yesterday and this morning, and placing the wire for the flying wires. I never should have sold my Miller Mig welder. n~
Required taking this apart and assembling the gear many times. There's 24 pieces here and a few more are required. Pieces that have to be created to hold flying wires.
Now I know why I never finished my second 90" Gee Bee Z. You forget as time goes by and when you move onto other projects.
Fortunately the Gee Bee Z is already framed. Still, there's plenty to be done to complete this model nicely.
Decisions? Go figure.
Charles
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Go for it Charles. I'll be watching for sure. The R-1 and Z are my wifes favourite airplanes, so she may peek in as well! H^^
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Go for it Charles. I'll be watching for sure. The R-1 and Z are my wifes favourite airplanes, so she may peek in as well! H^^
I don't know Glenn. I just spent almost two hours tweeking the gear. Have to get the wire centered in the wheel pants, both sides.
Took that thing apart and back together again three times.
I do have other projects waiting in the wings I could be working on. Much easier projects.
However, maybe it's about time I made some progress with the GBZ.
Charles
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Well,
As I said, I got the cobwebs off the Gee Bee Z and put some time in today.
Yes, I have been neglecting the Mig-3 but that will happen shortly.
So you think scale modeling is easy? ! n~
Unfortunately all the Gee Bee's had SS flying wires. I have to allow for the install of them well before the model progresses beyond what it currently is.
The gear is centered, but I will add the wheels for the last test. Off and on again. If you look really really close, you can see the .125" arm I soldered in place. This arm will have attached to it, what is needed so I have a place to attach the flying wires.
This template is for the placement and making of the flying wire holes. Four sides, two holes to a side. Gotta get them on the money. Or, I'll be patching the misplaced holes.
Yes, the holes are smaller than needed. Just to be sure.
Charles
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So you think scale is easy!
I said there were to be flying wires. On a model like this, 1/5 scale, they are really obvious.
So, they have to be done right and set up for easy installation once the model is painted.
I have to invent a method, which I have.
Here's the start. Wing openings were cut and soft balsa blocks were installed.
Photos show where I'm trying to get them flush.
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If you have interest in scale model building and you're watching this thread,
could you please "sign in." You don't have to have built a scale model.
I'm not interested in comments or "nice job," I'd just like to get a handle as to the numbers of modelers who have interest in scale.
Charles
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I don't build anything if it doesn't at least resemble a real airplane. Now get to work!! That "Z" has been waiting how long? LL~ H^^
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I guess if you do not want comment, don't post? Makes sense to me.
Contact Greg Davis in Salmon Arm B.C. to find a
Real scale builder" and ask about his 1/3 scale Baby Bullet that he is building.
Good luck with the Gee Bee.
nice job by the way
Ken
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I guess if you do not want comment, don't post? Makes sense to me.
Contact Greg Davis in Salmon Arm B.C. to find a
Real scale builder" and ask about his 1/3 scale Baby Bullet that he is building.
Good luck with the Gee Bee.
nice job by the way
Ken
Ken,
You may have miss read my Post, or possibly I wasn't clear.
Threads get a greater percentage of hits than replies. So it seems many guys don't want to reply yet they look.
My interest is in how many hits are guys interested in scale.
You would hope there would be enough interest in your model that "everyone" would comment.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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yes, I misunderstood. My error Charles.
Scale in the ultimate challenge in modeling of any kind.....I think the skills are genetic. I for one do not have it. A buddy of mine (Barry Hobkirk) built a Nats winner Spirit of St Louis when he was 16. The gauges in it actually worked as he ran them from a pressure tap manifold he made. The rest of us would stand back in reverence. Then go fly combat.....:)
Greg Davis is building a beauty 1/3 scale B Bullet and is of the same mold as Barry....I can't even begin to describe the work so far. The landing gear alone is amazing g to construct. I'll try to get a picture posted here.
K
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Ken,
Photos would be great, but see if you can come up with "links."
You can Post photos and links right here.
Thanks,
Charles
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Couple of hours got me some progress on the Gee Bee Z.
Yes, that's tin soldered to the rudder wire. Had difficulty keeping a plywood one attached to the R/C Gee Bee Z I built eons ago.
This one won't ever come apart or crack.
Charles
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Good thing I know something about sheetmetal layout. #^
Holes do make this piece of .032 aluminum lighter.
Flying wires will be attached to the end of this piece.
I'm thinking I might put the Gee Bee Z aside and work on the Stuka Tank Byster.
The Stuka is almost ready for surface detail and paint.
Decisions?
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Continuing with the flying wire setup.
That aluminum strip is bent back so I have twice the thickness of the .032. Also, if you lean in and look really really close, you can see brass bushings that were pressed in place, two on each side.
I'll put a loop of thread around each bushing hole so's not to loose any of them during handling.
Brick by brick.
Charles
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A bunch of work for elastic flying wires. n~
Posibly a photo or two tonight.
BTW. I've removed some weight. I removed two .125" steel aileron torque tubes and a bunch of unneeded wood.
I'll try to get more weight off the Gee Bee Z.
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You've been talking about doing this for a long time now.....I'm real glad your at it finally! I love this airplane! H^^
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You've been talking about doing this for a long time now.....I'm real glad your at it finally! I love this airplane! H^^
Glenn,
I've had this thing framed since the 90's. But I strongly believe I should finish the Stuka Tank Buster first.
Thinking about it.
Charles
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"When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong."
A line from the movie Dirty Dancing.
Measure twice and cut once. Well, you get the idea.
In any event, I had to fix a mistake. I put the flying wire ends at the wrong place. Would anyone have known? Probably not, but I couldn't live with the error.
Yea, a bit of work, but worth every bit of it.
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No Holiday keeps me from my model building. That's not a line to any movie.
No guests till 5:00PM so this gave me a bit of time to work on the Gee Bee Z.
I mentioned attaching flying wires in a previous photo and the stuff needed would be attached to the wire gear and that stuff will have the flying wires attached to.
Here's that stuff, an aluminum strip I cut from .032 sign stock. .5" wide.
A bit of creativity and it gets the job done. You really have to give thought to scale modeling because you sometines need ideas and methods that have to become part of the model and not part of a problem.
The model does have to be disassmebled before paint and, if designed correctly, easy to assemble after paint, or for repairs.
I don't have to worry about repairs because I don't fly my models. LL~ LL~ LL~
Yes, I'm kidding. I can't wait to finish and fly this Gee Bee Z. I just need a non grass field.
BTW. These wheelpants have been removed and replaced a few dozen times to figure things out for fit or to complete tasks.
Scale modeling is certainly an interesting and challenging area of the hobby, I wish there were more modelers participating in scale modeling.
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I ended my Thamksgiving day with Hawthorn Flying Wires.
Not a bad rendition for the time invested, and the model is just sport scale.
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So how did you make those flying wires....store bought or fabricated?
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So how did you make those flying wires....store bought or fabricated?
Glenn,
Hey! Hey! My only Scale Poster. LL~ LL~ LL~
I actually made these flying wires myself.
What I did was, I machined an original flying wire from high grade steel bar stock. Then I cast 8 molds because none of them were the identical length. They were about .125" in difference.
I then pored pure silver into the casts. Costly though but pure silver won't tarnish with age and looks just like SS Hawthorn Flying wires.
I turned one end on a lathe with a specially designed chuck. Turned the ends for 4-40. These steel clevis are from Great Planes and are 4-40.
Now here's the truth.
I went to my local welder's supply and talked them out of a dozen aluminum welding rods. Free!
I purchased the Great Planes clevis, 8.95 I believe. 12 to a package.
I forced threaded the clevis into the rod end. I then hammered the other end flat so I could drill a hole to accept the 2-56 threaded rod.
Total cost was just for the clevis and two $0.60 12" threaded rods. Nuts washers and lock washers to follow on assembly.
The entire task took about two hours. Took longer to make the aluminum fixtures needed to hold the flying lines.
I've actually made flying wires before. On one model, they were actually working flying wires. This was for a 90" span Gee Bee Z.
Hey! I gotcha! ;D
This mornings effort was my weight box. Custom made. n~
Probably hold two ounces.
Glenn, thanks for the reply and interest.
Charles
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so for the weight box....is that 2 oz of pure silver? LL~ H^^
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All sanded down and all set to go.
Might just get one or two coats of clear dope on this wing tomorrow? Hopefully.
Finished adding filler where needed and leveled everything by scratching all surface areas.
I'm going to try to get covering on the wing Sunday. Try anyway.
Charles
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It's the early bird that catches the worm.
Never to early to start working on a model.
Four pieces of wing covering, cut, labeled, tagged n bagged, all ready and good to go.
Unfortunately the wing needs a few coats of clear dope before I can attach the silkspan covering.
I'll try to get a coat or two of clear on the wing today.
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Well, unfortunately I didn't get any dope on the Gee Bee Z's wing today like I thought I would.
The wife wanted to see the 007 film "Spectre," which I was glad to do seeing I have this thing about 007 films. She's 15 years younger than I am, so I do try to keep her happy. Yes, at times, it's exhausting.
I did have to remove the GB's gear again, this time to cut off the gear wire end at the wheel. I soldered the wheel collars and popped on the Robart smooth plastic caps. They will stay gray.
Wire gear, wheels, and the pants are permanently done. The gear, wheel and whatever else is going on in the pants stays there even during paint. I'll just separate the wheel pant from the upper faring and mask the wheel.
It's really difficult removing the gear and the wheel once assembled and tough putting it all back in place. Time consuming also.
Dope deffinately on the wing tomorrow.
Photos to follow.
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Here's the wheel pants attached to the upper farings.
These custom made fiberglass parts had no means of connecting the two of them. I added 1/4" thick plywood pieces inside both the wheel pants and the upper farings, 8 in all. The piece in the upper faring had a drilled hole and the other piece in the pant was threaded for 1/4- 20.
Nylon bolts hold them together.
The bolts will be loosened for paint just to separate the two parts.
I did the work on these over 20 years ago. How time flies.
Good feeling finally having something completed except for finish and paint. That's the easy part.
Photos as promised.
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As always....I'm amazed at your work. H^^
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As always....I'm amazed at your work. H^^
Glenn,
I'm amazed I don't stop using dope. God I hate brushing dope in prep for covering a wing.
Charles
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I use the following stuff from BalsaUSA, it irons on and can be painted. It is tough like Koverall but can iron down to wood. The Natural finish can then be primed and painted.
I stopped using Dope a long time again and have been fiberglassing models ever since. But the model structure is open I use this stuff. You use an Iron and heat gun just like you would with iron on film.
Some guys use Polyspan with Dope with great results
http://shop.balsausa.com/product_p/556.htm
Fred
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Fred,
Thanks for the reply.
Over the years I've used many iron on materials, that one doesn't sound farmiliar?
It's probably me, but I cannot maintain confidence with iron on edges, I always worry about them turning up or separating.
Do you dope the edges to prevent this?
Charles
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The edges won't peel up like iron on film and you drop a screw driver on this stuff and it won't puncture. Send me a PM with an address and I can send you a sample you can try. Grant Hiestand used this material on his 1/3 Scale Spacewalker that flew for many years without any problems. He painted his model with latex house paint and then put a clear coat over that.
Fred
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The edges won't peel up like iron on film and you drop a screw driver on this stuff and it won't puncture. Send me a PM with an address and I can send you a sample you can try. Grant Hiestand used this material on his 1/3 Scale Spacewalker that flew for many years without any problems. He painted his model with latex house paint and then put a clear coat over that.
Fred
Fred,
What a guy!
You're too kind. That could be a plan. I already have two coats of dope on the wood?
Look for an e-mail.
Thanks again!
Charles
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Getting the bellcrank and floor test fitted in place.
CF pushrod is 22" long, ball to ball.
Plenty of movement in the elevator, might even get a loop out of the model?
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Looks good be prepared to get the leadout guide in the right spot to keep line tension. I have also flown with handles with narrow line spacing if there was too much elevator throw.
that is one big fuselage! hopefully the sample of covering arrived
fred
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Looks good be prepared to get the leadout guide in the right spot to keep line tension. I have also flown with handles with narrow line spacing if there was too much elevator throw.
that is one big fuselage! hopefully the sample of covering arrived
fred
Fred,
Thanks for the reply and the sample, yes, I have it. How do you feather in the edge or an overlap? Gotta use something? Shrinks with heat?
Sand before paint? Doesn't look like this stuff needs primer? I don't like applying paint without sanding the surface first.
There's three coats of dope 50% 50% thinner, currently on the wing. I was going to have foax wing stiching and stich covering, so primer over fake vinyl stiching would be needed.
The Gee Bee's cowling is 8.75" in diameter. %^@ That OS 80 throws a 15" prop and was designed to fly 14 lb models. So I read in a Review.
The leadout guide will be adjustable as per your design.
Thanks again for the reply, and, I appreciate the help.
Charles
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The covering material does not fray when it's cut and will bond to the balsa with heat and pressure. You would have to try it on balsa with dope already applied but I apply the covering material directly to the wood without any thing on the wood. The material is like iron on film, use the iron to attach around the edges then take the heat gun or iron to the open part of the fabric shrink drum tight.
to get it around corners use the iron and pull it around the corners like wingtips
Fred
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Fred,
Thanks for the reply.
I'll play with that piece you sent.
Here's the 10 oz R/C tank. Brings back memories. ;D
Three holes, just enough for the fuel line to be snug.
feed, fill, overflow. Hope this is right? n~
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I really like how you did your cowl attachment points. Clever idea. Why did you put you motor at an angle like that? Whats the advantage? H^^
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I really like how you did your cowl attachment points. Clever idea. Why did you put you motor at an angle like that? Whats the advantage? H^^
Glenn,
Hey! Hey! Thanks for the reply.
You have to have something that attaches to the cowling, so I just made mine adjustable. Easier to center the cowling that way.
I put the "engine" at an angle for access to the twin plugs and for the exhaust exit. Probably should have placed it upright or inverted, but the cowling is large enough that it covers the engine no matter how it's placed.
Advantages? Only a engineer or someone that really knows engine placement can answer that. I can't even begin to try. Or, I can say, I have absolutely no idea. LL~
Now I have to put in a tank floor.
Thanks again for the reply.
Charles
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Fine work Charles, looking forward to the completed model.
Wish I had the perseverance.
Will you go with "City of Springfield" scheme?
Terry
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Fine work Charles, looking forward to the completed model.
Wish I had the perseverance.
Will you go with "City of Springfield" scheme?
Terry
Terry,
Thanks for the reply.
I know of no other color scheme for the Z except for the yellow and black "City of Springfield?"
Be nice if there were choices.
One of the issues with Robart hinges is the thickness of the control surface they are going in. 1/4" is cutting it close, so I added a length of 1/32" ply along the TE of the stab.
The flying wires are working flying wires, so they will add to the strength of both the wing and the stab.
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Looking great. I wonder if this is going to be easier to keep from flipping over on landing than an RC version? Can't count how many people I have known that gave up and finally sold their Great Planes Gee Bee arf's because they couldn't get the landings down. That one was an excellent flying plane, but unless you stuck it in a perfect three point....
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You're right Charles - yellow/black on the original.
While it's been a long time since I saw it, didn't I see a different scheme on the 1 (or 2?) built for "The Rocketeer"?
Terry
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Looking great. I wonder if this is going to be easier to keep from flipping over on landing than an RC version? Can't count how many people I have known that gave up and finally sold their Great Planes Gee Bee arf's because they couldn't get the landings down. That one was an excellent flying plane, but unless you stuck it in a perfect three point....
"The Good, the Ugly, and the Bad."
Bad,
I know of what you speak. I'll be looking for a non grass area to fly the thing off of.
Some are extreamly fortunate in that grass isn't an issue. Neither are unseen ruts.
No point in damaging the model.
Terry,
The Rocketeer, a really good movie. I do remember the second Gee Bee Z, probably better looking, but that's HOLLYWOOD! LL~
I'm forced to go "bumble bee."
Thanks for the replies.
This tank isn't going anyplace! Flying wires labled. Ya think making them was easy? n~
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Maybe a little pop-out drag chute would stop it from nosing over. %^@ H^^
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There's plenty of models that are never flown off of grass. Why take the chance.
I may behave with this one, and others. Just have to find a great parking lot.
Charles
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A lot of scale planes want to nose over.
It is often necessary to sneak the LG forward to get the plane to do touch & go and taxi lap without nosing over.
In reality, planes like the GeeBee were just aimed at the runway and released. They didn't do many T&G's and didn't taxi much.
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I was flying a smaller version of the Gee Bee that flying buddy owned and you had to slowly advance the throttle otherwise the model would nose over. Once the model had enough airspeed the elevator was effective then we let the tail come up on it's own....that was the R1 version
Fred
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A lot of scale planes want to nose over.
It is often necessary to sneak the LG forward to get the plane to do touch & go and taxi lap without nosing over.
In reality, planes like the GeeBee were just aimed at the runway and released. They didn't do many T&G's and didn't taxi much.
Paul,
Are you saying that, because of the design of the model, the rules are "bent" a bit? Or are points not given because the model won't do the required maneuvers?
I was flying a smaller version of the Gee Bee that flying buddy owned and you had to slowly advance the throttle otherwise the model would nose over. Once the model had enough airspeed the elevator was effective then we let the tail come up on it's own....that was the R1 version
Fred
Fred,
That sounds about right to me on hard surfaces, but on rough turf there could be issues?
What was the size of the model?
Another thing is the CG location. The CG on this model is about an inch behind the LE.
On takeoff it's easy.... landing is the issue
The Good, the Ugly and the "Bad."
Bad,
You can catch it! %^@
First flight, parking lot for sure. Figure out the rest after that.
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The Great Planes Gee Bee ARF had lousy landing gear mounting and strut engineering and the wheel traveled/gear strut flexed great distances both fore and aft as well as side to side because of it's long single unsupported wire strut. The wheels would move aft on landing roll out and contact the edge of the wheelpant, which was fixed to the underside of the wing, and stop the rotation of the wheel like a brake, thus nosing the model over.
I have a similarly sized (71") Gee Bee R1/R2 ARF design from China that had the same problem. I developed a scale like construction of the gear and it works fine. The model itself, just like the real airplane, flies fine. Mine has a Zenoah G38 and weighs 10 lbs. A friend in Colorado is developing the model into a foam winged/tailed, fibreglass fuselaged kit for production starting middle of next year with optimized shapes for Scale modeling. Built up gear struts and scale mounting positions for the flying wires are being worked on right now. I thought of making one C/L when the kit run starts. I'll build up that kit myself, using parts with light weight components and lay up my own light weight fiberglass stuff when the time comes, to get the weight down for the final C/L product.
The model or real airplane having short moments handles well as long as control inputs are made precisely and properly. Like all Scale model airplane pilots, one must be a pretty good pilot before doing well with a ship like this. Having a lot of control deflection in the elevator does not allow the model to loop, the proper amount of deflection allows the model to corner at as many degrees per fraction of time as necessary to get it around the circle and the models weight, since the wing is already built, determines whether it'll do that within the space constraints that the controline hemisphere allows.
I would suggest the Gee Bee Z builder spend a few days a week flying some of his completed stunt models to learn the ropes of actually flying C/L models before attempting to fly his Gee Bee Z.
Chris...
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Chris,
I've been flying R/C Gee Bee's since the 80's, including a 90" Gee Bee Z I scratch built from plans.
As you said, the gear on my 28 lb GBZ model was designed as that of the real aircraft. The flying wires were also functional.
Problem with CL is you cannot add in trim for the landing.
I really don't think landing the model will be an issue, too much is being made of it.
I've made graphics many times, and offer sets for the R-1 and R-2, and for the life of me, I cannot understand why that aircraft is more popular than the Z?
Could be because the replica was flown in many Air Shows around the Country?
Could be the colors?
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you absolutly can add trim, use a 2.4 radio and you can apply trim just like an rc airplane,,
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you absolutly can add trim, use a 2.4 radio and you can apply trim just like an rc airplane,,
Mark,
I will have the 2.4 for throttle and engine shut off, but how would I control the trim with a fixed servo?
Thanks for the reply.
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imagination
its a radio, two channels right?
you could put a trim tab on the stab,, or any number of ways, that is the allure of being a builder designer,, you have to CREATE what you dont have
you have the skills and the imagination,, USE it,, make yoruself proud
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Hi Charles. I know practically nothing about radio control, but on the old three line bellcranks, we would set the throttle control to shut the motor off when it was fully retarded....would that work? If it would, then you would have the other for your trim tab. Just a thought and take it for what its worth....again, I know almost nothing about radio control stuff. H^^
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Finally read through this. Been meaning to for a while. I learned something about cowls and their mounting.
I would recommend evaluating the engine based on the exhaust routing and contemplate adjusting the mountings after that. I am sure there is a real reason you angled the motor mount.
Phil
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Glen,
Hey! Hey! I don't know anything about R/C either, only doing it for almost 30 years. ;D
Finally read through this. Been meaning to for a while. I learned something about cowls and their mounting.
I would recommend evaluating the engine based on the exhaust routing and contemplate adjusting the mountings after that. I am sure there is a real reason you angled the motor mount.
Phil
Phil,
The angle of the engine was determined years ago when I designed and framed the model. It's actually in a good position for what has to be done with the strap on muffler that belongs with that engine. I'll get a photo of the muffler.
A short flex tube will allow for the exhaust to exit as per the actual aircraft.
When I did this model, I was really interested in scale, now that it's going CL and I'm lazy, it can be so so scale. I can live with that. LL~
Thanks for the reply and interest and I appreciate you looking over the entire Thread.
Please keep looking and Posting.
Charles
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Finally read through this. Been meaning to for a while. I learned something about cowls and their mounting.
I would recommend evaluating the engine based on the exhaust routing and contemplate adjusting the mountings after that. I am sure there is a real reason you angled the motor mount.
Phil
Phil,
Took a while, but here's that photo I said I would take of the muffler.
Also, I forgot to mention, the "arms" that go to the cowling for attachment, were adjustable, I believe the photo shows that. I did it this way so I could center the scratch built fiberglass cowling easily.
Now that it's in place, the adjustments are no longer.
As far as the angle of the engine, I know of no model airplane engine that complains as to how it is mounted. LL~
They should run well in any direction, but inverted was NOT a choice. I have absolutely no experience with this engine running. It's NIB as is the muffler. The weight of this engine will come in handy because of the short nose moment, as will the weight of the fiberglass cowling.
Be nice to have the exhaust exit as per the actual aircraft, on that right side. I'm actually not sure of that, the Wasp JR. might exit on both sides, but I don't think so. I would have to check my photos of the actual aircraft to be sure. That concern is down the road.
Phil,
Are you working on something scale or plan to?
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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I am building a "Pageboy" for indoor RC. Sorta like a cub. Originally designed for escapement 1 channel and a Cox .010. I'm going electric on it. I have done some standoff scale, but it doesn't compare.
http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=358
The adjustable cowl is what I really liked. I think that is a good idea. I have a "bootstraps" pay load freeflight converted to 3 channel RC, electric, that needs a new cowl after I had to extend the nose considerably to put in a steerable nose wheel. I have built all my cowls in the past out of balsa and ply. I make a "washer" out of wood to match the bulkhead then fasten another washer with a spacer to the prop shaft. Then quick and dirty fill in the gaps! Neatness counts, but sandpaper cures a lot of ugly.
http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=353
I have done some 1/2a standoff scale. Nothing serious.
My Cox speed plane is an Airtractor 502 dressed like Dusty from the movie Disney Planes. I have been plagued by engine problems with this one, and have not even had a reliable bench run. Then I had another kid and have not taken it apart to build a new engine for it. I built it 2 years ago and haven't even tried to fly it... (AAAAANd I can't find a picture of it quickly)
Phil
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Phil,
I like both models.
My gosh, the "bootstraps" is all stick! Reminds me of the Bamboo Bomber, which is on my list.
I'd like to see your Dusty. Is there a littly Dusty in all of us? Well, most of us. ;D
Thanks for the reply.
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I have built all stick models, but the Bootstraps is not one I built. My family bought out an estate sale when I was in grade school, and this Bootstraps was in the lot.
Phil
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I have built all stick models, but the Bootstraps is not one I built. My family bought out an estate sale when I was in grade school, and this Bootstraps was in the lot.
Phil
Phil,
There has to be an interesting back story there someplace?
Be nice to know exactly what was purchased and where that "Treasure" is today?
I'm curious.
Charles
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http://www.coxengineforum.com/t3528p80-my-swap-meet-ringmaster-smack-down-the-resurrection-begins#50900
Out of the purchase there is a trainer with an enya .09 (Guillows maybe? thick solid wing upright engine. I have seen pictures here sometime ago) and a baby ringmaster that are in my possession, along with the Bootstrap. There are a number of incomplete or unfinished kits in that attic at my parents house. Most of the CL planes in the purchase were flown, crashed, and rebuilt till they were used up. I know there were relatively few engines compared to the models.
Most of the stuff in these pictures are from my family growing up. In the pile are my two brother's airplanes. The stripped air frame with the wrong tail is a Stearling Mustang, Mom's. The camo semi-scale profile is one of my dad's, I think it was one of his last profile combat models.
The Ringmaster Jr with the spider I know I covered and painted, but I don't remember building, it might have been in the purchase as well. I haven't done anything with it yet. I was considering going electric with it, but struggle with the whole system. Putting electric into a full fuse is a lot easier than sorting out a profile. Cutting the nose off to make space for the motor also bothers me a little.
Growing up we would fly as a family. It was pretty awesome.
Phil
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Phil,
You were fortunate to have a family interested in modeling. I wish I knew what that was like.
All those photos, are they recent or old?
Nice job with the Super. You should Post those photos and that model.
Charles
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The photos are from 2012. The attic is still a mess at my parents, they have had full plates and cleaning that attic is not high on the list. The insulation won't actually damage anything, and the insulation fell when they had the roof stripped and replaced a few months before I took the pictures.
If I lived closer... but 2 hour drive.
I have flown my Super ringmaster a couple times, but I can't get a good run off the Fox35 on it. It is a new engine, and has only had a couple quarts of fuel through it. The landing gear are too short too, and I haven't changed the wheels to something taller yet, taller wheels will help on the grass field I have to fly on too. It might be a second-hand plane but I still don't want to break it.
Phil
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I forgot about the rockets. This auction had a number of D powered rockets in it, and some multi-stage, and multi-engine jobs too. Really cool stuff too, not just streamlined tubes, but semi-scale models.
The problem is flying "large" engine rockets... We lost so many of them. The first time we flew a D size was in the Cleveland Metroparks, plenty of space for C sized stuff. It was one of the scale rocket planes... It leveled off under power and continued going out of sight at altitude over the valley rim never to be seen again.
We took a bunch of them to Wisconsin to the farmland that Grandma lived in, and again with several MILES of visibility still lost rockets. We did recover them better, but some of them just went too far. We drove through fields in the old Blazer trying to locate the rockets, but we ended up giving up on them. I haven't flown anything larger than a C since then. I like to get my toys back.
Phil
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I never had the guts to try the Gee Bee "R" or "Z". Next best thing was the "D", or Sportster version.
This color scheme isn't authentic. The D models all had very plain paint jobs, so I cheated a little.
No problem with T.O. or landing on asphalt with the wheel pants.
This one uses a Stalker 51
Floyd
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I never had the guts to try the Gee Bee "R" or "Z". Next best thing was the "D", or Sportster version.
This color scheme isn't authentic. The D models all had very plain paint jobs, so I cheated a little.
No problem with T.O. or landing on asphalt with the wheel pants.
This one uses a Stalker 51
Floyd
Floyd,
As usual you did a nice job with that model. H^^
You didn't say what the span was?
Model looks brand new!!
Thanks for the reply and the photo.
Outstanding
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Wingspan is 56". The Stalker has rear exhaust muffler. I added an extension to keep the goo off the plane. Therefore, it doesn't "age" as much. It's a stunter, but good enough to win a 1st in scale at the Northwest Regionals.
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Wingspan is 56". The Stalker has rear exhaust muffler. I added an extension to keep the goo off the plane. Therefore, it doesn't "age" as much. It's a stunter, but good enough to win a 1st in scale at the Northwest Regionals.
Floyd,
What "Class?" And how did you manage to place 1st, when the color scheme isn't documented?
I thought that stuff was important?
Charles
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The documentation has the color scheme and the NW Regionals had Sport, Profile and Authentic scale events in 2015. All three of the events requires the documentation which includes the 3-view, color information and photographs. I put in a page about the full size aircraft and the model but the judges end up using the 3-view and the photographs the most. color photographs are the best but often you only can get black and white, then you have to use written documentation to prove the colors.
Color documentation can be tough, the best method is FS color chips but finding the information about what color the airplane was by FS number is hard to find for civilian aircraft and racing aircraft. For my next project was I was able to photograph the full size aircraft myself and used my FS color fan deck to determine the color for all of the paint colors on the full size. I will then match my paint to match those FS color chips. For the military aircraft there is lots of FS color information. Plastic models will sometimes have color information, I buy the plastic models to see the shape of the wing fillets and other features, and for the color information.
4 pages max for the documentation package for fun scale, 8 pages max for sport and profile and 12 pages max for authentic scale.
Fred
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Fred,
My interest is how Floyd could win a 1st in scale at the Northwest Regionals with a model that had no correct documentation at all?
The "D's" weren't even red that I know of?
Don't get me wrong, I think his win is great, kudos to Floyd for that. H^^
However, he did say he, "cheated a little." Kudos for that also. LL~ I think? ;D
So, how did Floyd pull off a 1st?
How bad were his compitition?
Only one model in his class, his? LL~
Floyd, what's the back story?
I may compete with my accurate "Z" and could use advice.
Charles
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Well, I'm crossing my "T's" and dotting my "I's" on the Gee Bee Z.
Took a good look at it this morning while some Epoxy was curing on the ARGO II.
I'm really happy with the overall look of the Z. That I have that covered and besides it's too late to really make changes to the construction.
The Gee Bee Z has only one scheme that I know of, but I see photos of replica ones in Museums, done up differently, some fonts, but mostly inconsistancy with color. The word Wasp Jr. on the cowling, I've seen red and blue?
I will re-examine the finishing details like the graphics needed for the scheme because of this.
I would like to get it correct or as close as possible.
Charles
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Enjoying the build Charles, great to see scale modelling is alive and kicking :)
Cheers
Danny
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Enjoying the build Charles, great to see scale modelling is alive and kicking :)
Cheers
Danny
Danny,
Yes, it's scale modeling is alive and I've been kicked. LL~
I do better when other modelers give me a "push" to complete my work and it's a good feeling knowing others have interest.
I gotta get the wings covered, but I'm currently framing the ARGO II.
Couple of things I have to talk with you about. Modeling things.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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Worked on the Gee Bee Z today.
Managed to get the wing bottoms covered. Wing tops tomorrow.
Snout of the ARGO II can be seen in the photo. ;D
I was surprised that the wingspan is 58" I always thought it was 55" for some reason?
Charles
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Good to see your still tinkering with it Charles. I love watching your builds. H^^
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Good to see your still tinkering with it Charles. I love watching your builds. H^^
Glenn, that's nice of you to say that, thank you.
It's damp today and windy in sunny Florida. I'm not sure I'll be able to do the wing bottom covering because I have to work outside.
See what happens as the day moves on.
I really want to get the wings done so I can do the fuselage covering. There's a bunch on that. The whole thing actually.
Glenn, thanks for the kind reply, it's appreciated.
Charles
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So far, I do my modeling work that involves dope on Park picnic tables. However, there was a birthday party at my usual spot, five tables. They get a permit.
Sooooooo, the only place I could cover the wing was at the baseball diamond. I used the bleachers. The last seat was a perfect bench height.
To windy to cover the wing tops outside in the open, so I just put the first coat of dope on the wing bottom.
I used the space in the rear of my Tucson to avoid the wind.
Works for me.
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Good idea to use the park benches for doping.....as long as your not confused with the other types that use park benches for doping! %^@
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Good idea to use the park benches for doping.....as long as your not confused with the other types that use park benches for doping! %^@
Glenn,
My only Poster, thanks for the reply.
Picnic tables should be free today. Might get the wing tops covered.
I'll know soon.
Thanks for the reply.
Story and photos at 11:00.
Charles
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Did I miss it some where, is that poly-span? This is poly-span on the Vagabond and the stuff from the fabric store.
By the way when I built Pat's P-47 I had to go out in the yard to paint and sand. Sure glad I have a paint stand. But I have no more shade trees as they were taken down last year.
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Did I miss it some where, is that poly-span? This is poly-span on the Vagabond and the stuff from the fabric store.
By the way when I built Pat's P-47 I had to go out in the yard to paint and sand. Sure glad I have a paint stand. But I have no more shade trees as they were taken down last year.
John,
Thanks for the reply.
WOW! Nice bi-plane and nice covering jpb. H^^ Any more photos?
Poly-span and "stuff?" Does the "stuff" shrink with heat like Poly-span?
I don't use poly-span, I like making things difficult for myself. n~
I should give poly-span another go at it. Not sure if it's any lighter than silkspan? Or stronger?
Did the right side of the wing today, outside in the wind. Yes, I killed myself. That's why I only got one side done. Once I got some pins in it, it wasn't all that bad. This is real old silkspan.
I'll kill myself again tomorrow with the other half.
John, thanks again for the reply.
Charles
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You're right Charles - yellow/black on the original.
While it's been a long time since I saw it, didn't I see a different scheme on the 1 (or 2?) built for "The Rocketeer"?
Terry
Terry,
Sorry I'm late in responding to your Post.
What a great movie! There's a bit where the Gee Bee Z bellies in after the engine quits from a gun shot.
The Z is sliding along a dirt strip and you can see the attached cable pulling it. LL~
The second Z in the movie was blue and cream I believe. I have no documentation for that one.
My other R/C Z was black and yellow so I can live with it.
There are some red numbers and red pinstripes to brake the two colors up.
Tomorrow I cover the left wing top AND possibly apply some dope.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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The Gee Bee Z wing is completely covered. I'll be moving on to the other surfaces.
Yes, I'll have my hands full.
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Charles...
Glad to see you moving at this rate on your 'Z'. Flying wires are sharp, do you have different threads on each end? (right hand at one, left hand on other) Can't imagine how you'd get tautness by any other method
My Gee Bee R1 had flying wires, but was half the scale of your 'Z'. Method was eyelets in wing, pants, fuse...a single solid stainless wire was strung thru, twisted loop ends soldered after passing thru 1/32" holes bored in a square nut, which were drawn into tension with a 2" long machine screw, counter bored in the center of the fuse bottom. (screw turned thru bored center of 3/8" dowel gusseted in lower belly)
R1 was full fused, bulkheads & stringers, scale placed planking, silk covered. Unique in 1974, only C/L Gee Bee to be seen. Whole rash of 'em seemed to follow, mainly R/C...but when we flew in Santa Cruz, it was the only dog in the yard.
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Charles...
Glad to see you moving at this rate on your 'Z'. Flying wires are sharp, do you have different threads on each end? (right hand at one, left hand on other) Can't imagine how you'd get tautness by any other method
My Gee Bee R1 had flying wires, but was half the scale of your 'Z'. Method was eyelets in wing, pants, fuse...a single solid stainless wire was strung thru, twisted loop ends soldered after passing thru 1/32" holes bored in a square nut, which were drawn into tension with a 2" long machine screw, counter bored in the center of the fuse bottom. (screw turned thru bored center of 3/8" dowel gusseted in lower belly)
R1 was full fused, bulkheads & stringers, scale placed planking, silk covered. Unique in 1974, only C/L Gee Bee to be seen. Whole rash of 'em seemed to follow, mainly R/C...but when we flew in Santa Cruz, it was the only dog in the yard.
Mike,
I just saw your Post. I've been busy typing all day. LL~
First page Post #21, I explain in detail how I made these. The ends are so tight I believe they will not loosen. If I snug them up they will cary the load of the model.
Largest model I made working flying wires for was my 90" Gee Bee Z. That set-up required plenty of work.
Here's Post #21.
I actually made these flying wires myself.
What I did was, I machined an original flying wire from high grade steel bar stock. Then I cast 8 molds because none of them were the identical length. They were about .125" in difference.
I then pored pure silver into the casts. Costly though but pure silver won't tarnish with age and looks just like SS Hawthorn Flying wires.
I turned one end on a lathe with a specially designed chuck. Turned the ends for 4-40. These steel clevis are from Great Planes and are 4-40.
Now here's the truth.
I went to my local welder's supply and talked them out of a dozen aluminum welding rods. Free!
I purchased the Great Planes clevis, 8.95 I believe. 12 to a package.
I forced threaded the clevis into the rod end. I then hammered the other end flat so I could drill a hole to accept the 2-56 threaded rod.
Total cost was just for the clevis and two $0.60 12" threaded rods. Nuts washers and lock washers to follow on assembly.
The entire task took about two hours. Took longer to make the aluminum fixtures needed to hold the flying lines.
I've actually made flying wires before. On one model, they were actually working flying wires. This was for a 90" span Gee Bee Z.
Mike, thanks for the reply and interest.
Charles
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Looking good, it's always fun when it gets the covering. Makes you feel like you are getting closer to getting the model done
Fred
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Looking good, it's always fun when it gets the covering. Makes you feel like you are getting closer to getting the model done
Fred
Fred,
I always felt that the covering was the top of the hill. Downhill from there. Seems like you look at it that way also.
I might try to get some silk on a few of those other parts today. It's been humid but I'll know later in the day.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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Charles, I too always feel that the covering is the 'crest', or top of the hill. Invariably, however, each time I'm rudely reminded of the ruts and pitfalls I'm about to encounter in sanding, sealing, and...Final paint! Then, there's the masking tape pulling just one flake at the edge... Grrr... LOL
Still, I persevere. I liked reading Walter Hicks' take on paint for a contest ship he did, a Sterling Mr. Mulligan: "Paint was to be simple, one color..."
This 'Z' will be an example of your expertise, Charles. The 'showroom' of your specialty, if you will.
Your building skills amazed me, some 'out of the box' thinking here. Very complimentary to the Scale column.
Anxious to steal some finish ideas here...
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Mike,
Thanks for the reply.
Painting a scale model is different than painting a stunt ship. I'll have to keep this in mind when I paint the Z.
Graphics also, you can ruin a nice scale model if it doesn't have proper graphics that mirror the actual aircraft. With me, it has to look right.
I'll bet "some" judges really can't see these subtle but important differences? But still, I'll be "correct" with the Z.
Remember, I, that is, CFC Graphics, specialize in correct scale graphics and masks. A plug. ;D
My Mulligan set is a good example. I did plenty of research to get this set correct.
Well, I have three pieces covered on one side. there's no surface on the TE of the elevator, it was a wrap, and stuck to 1/16". This was taxing. Rudder will be taxing also.
Covered with silk using dope and a tad of CA. n~
Thanks for the reply and interest.
Charles
Edited: photo trouble
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A lot of scale planes want to nose over.
It is often necessary to sneak the LG forward to get the plane to do touch & go and taxi lap without nosing over.
In reality, planes like the GeeBee were just aimed at the runway and released. They didn't do many T&G's and didn't taxi much.
Paul.
I was reviewing my Thread so's not to double post a photo and I saw your reply.
I apologize, sorry I missed it.
That's a good idea about the landing gear. Too late for the Gee Bee Z, but I'll keep it in mind for my TEXACO 13.
If I Contest, I'll tell the Judge you told me to do it.
Will that help me?
Thanks for the reply, it's appreciated.
Charles
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You're right Charles - yellow/black on the original.
While it's been a long time since I saw it, didn't I see a different scheme on the 1 (or 2?) built for "The Rocketeer"?
Terry
Terry,
Like I told Paul, sorry I missed your Post.
The Rocketeer was a good movie. Wish I had it in DVD, just VCR. I got a bunch in VCR. n~
That blue and cream would be nice, but no documentation, unless someone knew where that mock-up is?
I don't believe it's a flying aircraft.
Sorry it took a bit for me to get to you.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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Ailerons, both sides, DONE!
Well, covered with silk anyway. I still have to fill the weave. Might get a coat or two on them tomorrow.
The model won't have working ailerons now that it's going CL. They will be glued or something to keep them in place.
Also got the first coat of reduced dope on the ARGO II's framework.
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Whoa! Am I a Doper or what?
Spent a good part of the morning getting dope on all these parts, both sides. Well a few I had to apply silk to first.
The elevators and rudder, I used CA to apply the silk.
ARGO II, Gee Bee Z, and the TEXACO 13 wing.
I'll work on getting the Gee Bee Z fuselage ready for some dope also. That's next.
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Crossing T's and dotting i's.
Bellcrank is in place and rod length has been determined, + or-. Fine tune on assembly.
Plenty of throws. All silk was applied with CA. Covering the fuselage is next. I'll use CA there also.
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Hi Charles. Just a question....How on earth do you cover with CA? That's one I have never heard of before. H^^
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So you think scale is easy!
Covered the fuselage yesterday. Yes it killed me. HB~>
I'll try to get to the other side of the fuselage covered today.
Doesn't look good right now, but a few layers of dope then primer and fake stitching should bring some life into it. I hope.
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You are typing so obviously rumors of this killing you are overstated LL~
CA... Wow. Stretched hand tight that looks pretty darn good.
I've never used silk, just silkspan, and that has been years now. Everything was wet, and put down with dope, and just brushed into place. As it dried the slack would go away.
I am almost inspired to try it... Maybe eventually.
I look forward to seeing what you do.
Phil
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You are typing so obviously rumors of this killing you are overstated LL~
CA... Wow. Stretched hand tight that looks pretty darn good.
I've never used silk, just silkspan, and that has been years now. Everything was wet, and put down with dope, and just brushed into place. As it dried the slack would go away.
I am almost inspired to try it... Maybe eventually.
I look forward to seeing what you do.
Phil
Phil,
I'm inspired by myself also. I'm kidding! I'm also looking forward to seeing what I do.
Kidding again. LL~
I'm done with the other side! Took just about an hour. Experience from the first side? I think so.
The first side took much longer. The learning experience.
I didn't precut the pieces, cut them just as I went along.
First side I wet the silk. Not saying that created issues, but it stuck and was harder to move around and put in place.
The side I did this morning I applied dry. BAM! What a difference. I went through the first piece with ease. The largest piece.
The two others followed and I applied them dry also.
Now, here's the thing, around the rudder area, there were some miner wrinkles, I had to spray the area with a dusting of water to pull them out.
Sure, here and there I have a few ripples, but I'm guessing the dope will take them out.
It should wind up wrinkle free.
Photos when my camera battery is charge.
Phil,
Thanks for the reply.
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that kind of fuselage is difficult to cover, looking good
Fred
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that kind of fuselage is difficult to cover, looking good
Fred
Fred,
Thanks for the compliment.
I was just going to Post a few more photos and read your reply. It wasn't all that difficult using CA.
I did decided I'm going "Extreme" scale with the model. Whatever that means?
Thanks for the reply.
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Talk about a mix in covering material.
Wing is old silkspan,
Control surfaces are Haboti 5mm from, Dharma
Fuselage is AERO brand silk.
I like the Dharma silk the best.
Shaping up!
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That is going to be good looking model, love the Gee Bee. I saw Delmar fly his replica at Reno...awesome
Fred
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That is going to be good looking model, love the Gee Bee. I saw Delmar fly his replica at Reno...awesome
Fred
Fred,
That was the GB R-1. Which is much more popular. Probably because of Ben Delmar's aerobatics.
Tell you one thing, I'll never get used to using clear dope. I really don't like working with it.
I have so few pin holes on each open bay, I may just hit each one by themselves. I have a ton of dope on and still have some pin holes.
I always get through this issue.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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I last used Dope in the late 80's and moved on to different paint systems. There are so many different systems we can use to paint the models. Sparky has some great videos on his stunthanger youtube channel that might help.
Fred
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I last used Dope in the late 80's and moved on to different paint systems. There are so many different systems we can use to paint the models. Sparky has some great videos on his stunthanger youtube channel that might help.
Fred
Fred,
For sheeted areas it's a no brainer. That's all I built in R/C. We used glass cloth and it's catching on in CL. There's also Polycrylic, which I have used.
For applying silk to open bays, if you elect to apply the silk wet, I believe dope is the only answer?
For filling weave, I imagine there are other clear products, but except for dope, I don't believe any will shrink and tighten the silk?
I'm still not convinced that iron products are the way to go? I may try it on my next model.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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Still dopeing out of the back of my Tucsun. Total dedication. ;D
The second generation ARGO II, Casino Royale 007, just about ready for covering.
Couple more coats of dope on the Gee Bee Z and it will be just about ready for primer.
Yes, I'm excited! #^
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Looking good Charles.....not you, the airplanes! n~ H^^
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Fred,
That was the GB R-1. Which is much more popular. Probably because of Ben Delmar's aerobatics.
Not to sound like I'm bullying you, but that would be the R-2, smaller engine Bendix racer.
Dan McEntee
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Dan,
I don't mind the correction, I get them mixed up all the time.
I have a book about the Gee Bee's someplace, I should dig it up. Interesting bunch of guys and really remarkable aircraft.
Thanks for the reply.
Charles
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I did a preliminary assembly this morning. Certainly more will follow when primer is applied.
The Z only has a 59" wingspan, but I find it bulky to handle because of the chubby fuselage and the wheel covers. And a cowling you cannot hold on to.
No paint yet, but I think it still looks nice assembled.
There's still plenty that remains to be done on this model, but it has come a long ways.
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Here's another Thread I didn't want to go to the wayside without the photos.
Just replaced all the lost photos.
In fact, I'm hoping to get back on this model soon.
Charles
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Watching with interest, Chaz! I am still 'taken' by your wing fillets, add those to your using silk!
I built a Half-Fast lll in the '50s, (combat flying wing, by Midwest)
I used silk, and 3 or 4 coats of brushed clear dope, then 2 coats of Corsair blue. Loved the final finish...sanding lightly between coats, just like the real stuff!
Hoping for more installments...
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I'm with Mike. This has always been a plane that has grabbed my attention. From the first time I saw it on one of those old Jello airplane discs (hows that for ageing me!) till today. Every time I see one I am in awe of the Granvilles and their creation. Can't waite to see some in the air shots of this beauty!
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Watching with interest, Chaz! I am still 'taken' by your wing fillets, add those to your using silk!
I built a Half-Fast lll in the '50s, (combat flying wing, by Midwest)
I used silk, and 3 or 4 coats of brushed clear dope, then 2 coats of Corsair blue. Loved the final finish...sanding lightly between coats, just like the real stuff!
Hoping for more installments...
Mike,
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for Posting. I'm sure you know the thread isn't recent.
I lose interest quickly, so I bounce around from model to model. I actually like working this way.
I will be back on the Gee Bee Z soon. As soon as I get a bit more done on my AG Cat 164A. There's no build on this model.
I'm currently designing the wings and will get the file off for laser cutting, along with a few other parts.
I am working on the ARGO II also, getting the ARGO II ready for paint.
Thanks for the reply. BTW. Are you still doing combat?
Glenn,
Hey! Hey!
What is a Jello airplane discs? I'm old also but I don't know it.
The Gee Bee Z is my all time second favorite airplane to model. I've built a few of the Gee Bee Z's in R/C, Flew some, sold some and I still have one left, besides the Z, that I expect to convert to CL.
I'll get back on the Gee Bee Z soon.
Charles
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Floyd,
What "Class?" And how did you manage to place 1st, when the color scheme isn't documented?
I thought that stuff was important?
Charles
My document package explained that the surviving "D" models underwent several modifications, including engine changes and color schemes. So my colors were in the "possible" category. I got dinged on color authenticity, but I guess I made up for it in the flying, or something.
But, hey! I just put up flights, and the judges did the rest.
Floyd
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My document package explained that the surviving "D" models underwent several modifications, including engine changes and color schemes. So my colors were in the "possible" category. I got dinged on color authenticity, but I guess I made up for it in the flying, or something.
But, hey! I just put up flights, and the judges did the rest.
Floyd
Floyd,
Thanks for the reply and kudos on that model and the win.
Speaking of models and winning.
There's much to be learned when choosing a model for scale compitition and what it takes as far as the flight plus documentation.
I might start looking into this.
Thanks again for the reply.
Charles
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Rarely do I receive great photos, let alone photos at all, from modelers who use my graphics.
These two models are 90" or so in span. Took him a bit of time but as he said he would, he did send them.
Makes me want to drop everything and finish my Gee Bee Z. Nah!
Charles
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Did you ever get this one buttoned up?
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Did you ever get this one buttoned up?
TJ,
Thanks for the reply.
The GBZ is temporarily on hold. I'm looking into surface detail and how I'm going to represent this?
I'm also out of room or space. I have to get rid of a few models if I wish to continue on the others I have in various build stages.
I miss my two car garage.
Thanks again for the reply.
Charles
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Wow!
I haven't added anything to this thread in a year and a half. Yes, I'm still alive.
I'm not in limbo but a model or two may be. n~
"I'M GOING ELECTRIC!!"
I'm doing the GBR-3 first then I'll do the Gee Bee Z.
I'm currently educating myself on electric systems. And there are as many of these as there are people in India. I believe a billion and change. ;D
I'll get it done.
I'm looking forward to finishing the Gee Bee Z also.
CB
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I put the CG at 25% of the average wing chord. My Spitfire does not like fast throttle up on takeoff. I generally hold full up elevator when starting the take off run (tail draggers) and then go to neutral once the model has sufficient airspeed. The model is released with the engine at idle and then throttle up slowly.
The Nats this year will have a zero entry fee for first time pilots coming to the Nats. Consider coming to the Nats this year with the Gee Bee!
If you in the St Louis area on June 27-28 come and fly at Buder Park at our CL Fun Fly!
Fred
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Here is one of my electric videos, I have others on my youtube channel
Fred
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAtDJKU2BqY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCfmLjRXGmA&t=199s
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Received an email this morning from a fellow modeler asking if I was going to continue working on the Gee Bee Z? That doesn't happen every day. LL~
29K hits and change on this Build so I'm guessing there's interest.
The model is on hold. It will be converted to Electric.
I haven't learned enough about Electric set-ups to make a decision.
I'm still working on a set-up for the GBR-3, which is ready for flight. I just need a great
"overpowered" set-up. ;D
CB
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I haven't learned enough about Electric set-ups to make a decision.
I'm still working on a set-up for the GBR-3, which is ready for flight. I just need a great
"overpowered" set-up. ;D
CB
Oh, Really? Ready for flight? Sure doesn't look like it in the photo posted today??
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Oh, Really? Ready for flight? Sure doesn't look like it in the photo posted today??
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
"Never let your emotions get in the way of your vision."
I was taught this in the mid 60's when I started training to become a pilot. I looked it up in my old log book, 11/11/66. My very first introductory flight in an all aluminum Luscombe 8E, N1885B. I've never forgotten this passage because it was my absolute very first flying lesson, and I was tested.
My instructor, Mary Lippitt and I were over trees, lots of them, and she pulled the throttle back. "OK," Mary said, "Now where are you going to go?"
We did an hour or so of introduction on the ground, stuff about the aircraft and emergency procedures while at altitude and dead stick landings. Mary spent some time on this. I was wondering if we were going to actually fly? My first hour, I wasn't sure.
We did fly!
As I said, we were over trees when Mary surprised me and pulled the throttle back.
"Now where are you going to go?"
I'll never forget what I said because she kept reminding me from time to time,
"Looks like I have no choice, I'll have to find some friendly trees."
The test was to see if I could keep it together mentally. "Fly the plane and don't bring emotions into the cockpit," Mary would always say.
Well I received a 3+ for that day and 1.45 hr. of instruction time. I could photograph the page if you like? Prove it happened. LL~ LL~
That Post? I said the Gee Bee Z is on hold and will be converted to Electric. That model has a long way to go.
The GBR-3 is ready for flight. I just need a set-up for it.
The photo I Posted was of the Gee Bee Z because this is the Gee Bee Z thread. The models do look alike.
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Oh no, you must have forgotten the photo you posted in your playpen of the "GBR-3" with the nose still basically cut off. it says it was posted today. With all the photos you have posted today, why not post a photo of it all assembled, and ready to fly, paint or no paint? You always have some excuse for not flying a model. Ready for flight means "READY FOR FLIGHT." That means put fuel in it, (or battery) hook up the lines and FLY IT. Getting a "set up" whatever that is, should not be an issue, plenty of stuff out there, or maybe you have figured out that you can't fit what you need in the fuselage, and that you maybe should not have cut the nose off? Come on, get it really ready to fly and let's see it fly!! Why get this close to the finish line and then park the car?
As to the story, that is a lot to cover on an introductory flight. They usually spent an hour on the basic stuff like "These are the wings, that is the nose and that is the tail." type stuff. You know "That is the ground, and that is the sky. All aviation operations will take place within those boundaries." When Mary pulled the throttle back, she was probably just seeing if you would pee in your pants. What you should have done was put the power back up and said "I'm going back to the airport to get me another instructor." If she was really going to test you, she would have cut the switches. Again, an awful lot of advanced stuff for the first lesson, when you should be learning to trim the airplane, proper operating parameters for the engine, proper air speeds, coordinated turns, top rudder and bottom rudder control, just making the airplane go where you wanted it to go, especially in a Luscombe. And then there is the really important thing you need to learn first, and that is how to land and get your wallet out to pay for the lesson as fast as you can. That is where you can quote Bob Hoover and say "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. Any landing where you can use the airplane again is a great landing!" After that you get into stall initiation and recovery, and spin recovery. Things that you need to know in an emergency. Then you can quote Bob Hoover again and tell her "Always fly the airplane as far into the crash as you can." Again, this is especially true in a Luscombe.
The only thing that the GeeBee-Z has in common with the GBR-3 is that they are both airplanes with wings and propellers. The resemblance stops there. The Granville brothers designed the GeeBee-Z. They designed better than you just using just chalk on a concrete floor. I don't know who claims responsibility for the other. Don't really care either.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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The taller the prop is off the ground will create a larger pitch moment if you throttle up too quickly, the hard surfaces is better, the rough surfaces where it can catch the wheels is a big problem. fly from a fully paved circle for the test flight!
This is how I do test / maiden flights
1) reduce the engine to full idle, throttle up slowly and do a taxi lap. You are looking to see if the nose has a tendency to turn inwards or not. Adjust the tailwheel as required
2) throttle up until you have enough airspeed for the tail to become effective, if everything is good, throttle up some more to hop the model off the ground but not too far. The point is to see if the CG is not too far aft before you get too high.
3) If step #2 feels good throttle up some more and climb out, the only goal is to see if the handle is set right and the CG is in the right spot. Come in for a landing and see how that works.
I saw a friend years ago launch a model, throttled up too quickly, the model got airborne, stalled and crashed 1/2 lap later. The bigger and heavier the model the longer the takeoff run. that model came in at 11 or lbs and it needed more airspeed before climbing out.
I test flew a brodak bearcat one time, the CG was back too far so on step #2 when I was about 4 feet off the ground I knew I was in trouble, so I locked my hand and throttled back to land. There was only minimal damage to the landing gear doors. We were able to add nose weight and get a good first flight in. Had I gone to full power on the first run I probably would have crashed the model due to the CG location.
Fred
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Fred,
Thanks for that. H^^
I'm working with two different models.
GBR-3
Gee Bee Z
Both close to getting in the air.
The GBR-3, I was considering Electrical equipment strictly for stunt. I do expect the model to stunt. I'm considering Rogerio's stuff with a Plettenberg 25-16. No R/C TX.
The Gee Bee Z. I believe I'll follow in your footsteps for this full scale model. It is IC right now but the conversion will be simple seeing the model is only framed and covered.
I was going to send you the specs, weight of the model actually, to see what you would recommend for a great, "over powered," electrical set-up. Short nose moment so it'll need a bit of weight. R/C TX on the hip like you do.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-9x-9ch-transmitter-w-module-ia8-receiver-mode-2-afdhs-2a-system.html?countrycode=US&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIveb8lavj6AIVUfDACh0H7gIHEAQYAiABEgJKYfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
I'm just about ready to purchase this stuff now, for both models.
Did you see the progress I'm making on the TEXACO 13? This will be another Electric model.
We could go to emails.
Fred, thank you for your interest and help, it's appreciated.
Charles