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Author Topic: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.  (Read 34868 times)

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2015, 09:46:36 AM »
The Great Planes Gee Bee ARF had lousy landing gear mounting and strut engineering and the wheel traveled/gear strut flexed great distances both fore and aft as well as side to side because of it's long single unsupported wire strut. The wheels would move aft on landing roll out and contact the edge of the wheelpant, which was fixed to the underside of the wing, and stop the rotation of the wheel like a brake, thus nosing the model over.

I have a similarly sized (71") Gee Bee R1/R2 ARF design from China that had the same problem. I developed a scale like construction of the gear and it works fine. The model itself, just like the real airplane, flies fine. Mine has a Zenoah G38 and weighs 10 lbs. A friend in Colorado is developing the model into a foam winged/tailed, fibreglass fuselaged kit for production starting middle of next year with optimized shapes for Scale modeling. Built up gear struts and scale mounting positions for the flying wires are being worked on right now. I thought of making one C/L when the kit run starts. I'll build up that kit myself, using parts with light weight components and lay up my own light weight fiberglass stuff when the time comes, to get the weight down for the final C/L product.

The model or real airplane having short moments handles well as long as control inputs are made precisely and properly. Like all Scale model airplane pilots, one must be a pretty good pilot before doing well with a ship like this. Having a lot of control deflection in the elevator does not allow the model to loop, the proper amount of deflection allows the model to corner at as many degrees per fraction of time as necessary to get it around the circle and the models weight, since the wing is already built, determines whether it'll do that within the space constraints that the controline hemisphere allows.

I would suggest the Gee Bee Z builder spend a few days a week flying some of his completed stunt models to learn the ropes of actually flying C/L models before attempting to fly his Gee Bee Z.

Chris...

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2015, 11:43:26 AM »
Chris,

I've been flying R/C Gee Bee's since the 80's, including a 90" Gee Bee Z I scratch built from plans.

As you said, the gear on my 28 lb GBZ model was designed as that of the real aircraft. The flying wires were also functional.

Problem with CL is you cannot add in trim for the landing.

I really don't think landing the model will be an issue, too much is being made of it.

I've made graphics many times, and offer sets for the R-1 and R-2, and for the life of me, I cannot understand why that aircraft is more popular than the Z?

Could be because the replica was flown in many Air Shows around the Country?

Could be the colors?




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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2015, 12:39:56 PM »
you absolutly can add trim, use a 2.4 radio and you can apply trim just like an rc airplane,,
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2015, 02:22:51 PM »
you absolutly can add trim, use a 2.4 radio and you can apply trim just like an rc airplane,,

Mark,

I will have the 2.4 for throttle and engine shut off, but how would I control the trim with a fixed servo?

Thanks for the reply.

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2015, 09:53:18 PM »
imagination
its a radio, two channels right?
you could put a trim tab on the stab,, or any number of ways, that is the allure of being a builder designer,, you have to CREATE what you dont have
you have the skills and the imagination,, USE it,, make yoruself proud
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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2015, 10:51:40 AM »
Hi Charles.  I know practically nothing about radio control, but on the old three line bellcranks, we would set the throttle control to shut the motor off when it was fully retarded....would that work?  If it would, then you would have the other for your trim tab.  Just a thought and take it for what its worth....again, I know almost nothing about radio control stuff. H^^
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2015, 04:43:04 PM »
Finally read through this.  Been meaning to for a while.  I learned something about cowls and their mounting. 

I would recommend evaluating the engine based on the exhaust routing and contemplate adjusting the mountings after that.  I am sure there is a real reason you angled the motor mount.

Phil

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2015, 06:23:29 AM »
Glen,

Hey! Hey! I don't know anything about R/C either, only doing it for almost 30 years.  ;D

Finally read through this.  Been meaning to for a while.  I learned something about cowls and their mounting. 

I would recommend evaluating the engine based on the exhaust routing and contemplate adjusting the mountings after that.  I am sure there is a real reason you angled the motor mount.

Phil

Phil,

The angle of the engine was determined years ago when I designed and framed the model. It's actually in a good position for what has to be done with the strap on muffler that belongs with that engine. I'll get a photo of the muffler.

A short flex tube will allow for the exhaust to exit as per the actual aircraft.

When I did this model, I was really interested in scale, now that it's going CL and I'm lazy, it can be so so scale. I can live with that.  LL~

Thanks for the reply and interest and I appreciate you looking over the entire Thread.

Please keep looking and Posting.

Charles

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2015, 10:57:31 AM »
Finally read through this.  Been meaning to for a while.  I learned something about cowls and their mounting.  

I would recommend evaluating the engine based on the exhaust routing and contemplate adjusting the mountings after that.  I am sure there is a real reason you angled the motor mount.

Phil

Phil,

Took a while, but here's that photo I said I would take of the muffler.

Also, I forgot to mention, the "arms" that go to the cowling for attachment, were adjustable, I believe the photo shows that. I did it this way so I could center the scratch built fiberglass cowling easily.

Now that it's in place, the adjustments are no longer.

As far as the angle of the engine, I know of no model airplane engine that complains as to how it is mounted.  LL~

They should run well in any direction, but inverted was NOT a choice. I have absolutely no experience with this engine running. It's NIB as is the muffler. The weight of this engine will come in handy because of the short nose moment, as will the weight of the fiberglass cowling.

Be nice to have the exhaust exit as per the actual aircraft, on that right side. I'm actually not sure of that, the Wasp JR. might exit on both sides, but I don't think so. I would have to check my photos of the actual aircraft to be sure. That concern is down the road.

Phil,

Are you working on something scale or plan to?

Thanks for the reply.

Charles


« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:47:03 PM by Avaiojet »
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2015, 01:58:03 PM »
I am building a "Pageboy" for indoor RC.  Sorta like a cub.  Originally designed for escapement 1 channel and a Cox .010.  I'm going electric on it.  I have done some standoff scale, but it doesn't compare. 

http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=358

The adjustable cowl is what I really liked.  I think that is a good idea.  I have a "bootstraps" pay load freeflight converted to 3 channel RC, electric, that needs a new cowl after I had to extend the nose considerably to put in a steerable nose wheel.  I have built all my cowls in the past out of balsa and ply.  I make a "washer" out of wood to match the bulkhead then fasten another washer with a spacer to the prop shaft.  Then quick and dirty fill in the gaps!  Neatness counts, but sandpaper cures a lot of ugly.

http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=353

I have done some 1/2a standoff scale.  Nothing serious. 

My Cox speed plane is an Airtractor 502 dressed like Dusty from the movie Disney Planes.  I have been plagued by engine problems with this one, and have not even had a reliable bench run.  Then I had another kid and have not taken it apart to build a new engine for it.  I built it 2 years ago and haven't even tried to fly it...  (AAAAANd I can't find a picture of it quickly)

Phil


Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2015, 03:33:55 PM »
Phil,

I like both models.

My gosh, the "bootstraps"  is all stick! Reminds me of the Bamboo Bomber, which is on my list.

I'd like to see your Dusty. Is there a littly Dusty in all of us? Well, most of us.  ;D

Thanks for the reply.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:48:04 PM by Avaiojet »
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2015, 05:41:34 PM »
I have built all stick models, but the Bootstraps is not one I built.  My family bought out an estate sale when I was in grade school, and this Bootstraps was in the lot.

Phil

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2015, 06:32:26 PM »
I have built all stick models, but the Bootstraps is not one I built.  My family bought out an estate sale when I was in grade school, and this Bootstraps was in the lot.

Phil

Phil,

There has to be an interesting back story there someplace?

Be nice to know exactly what was purchased and where that "Treasure" is today?

I'm curious.

Charles
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2015, 09:04:19 PM »
http://www.coxengineforum.com/t3528p80-my-swap-meet-ringmaster-smack-down-the-resurrection-begins#50900

Out of the purchase there is a trainer with an enya .09 (Guillows maybe?  thick solid wing upright engine.  I have seen pictures here sometime ago)  and a baby ringmaster that are in my possession, along with the Bootstrap.  There are a number of incomplete or unfinished kits in that attic at my parents house.  Most of the CL planes in the purchase were flown, crashed, and rebuilt till they were used up.  I know there were relatively few engines compared to the models. 

Most of the stuff in these pictures are from my family growing up.  In the pile are my two brother's airplanes.  The stripped air frame with the wrong tail is a Stearling Mustang, Mom's.  The camo semi-scale profile is one of my dad's, I think it was one of his last profile combat models. 

The Ringmaster Jr with the spider I know I covered and painted, but I don't remember building, it might have been in the purchase as well.  I haven't done anything with it yet.  I was considering going electric with it, but struggle with the whole system.  Putting electric into a full fuse is a lot easier than sorting out a profile.  Cutting the nose off to make space for the motor also bothers me a little.

Growing up we would fly as a family.  It was pretty awesome. 

Phil

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2015, 07:01:00 AM »
Phil,

You were fortunate to have a family interested in modeling. I wish I knew what that was like.

All those photos, are they recent or old?

Nice job with the Super. You should Post those photos and that model.

Charles
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2015, 07:58:33 AM »
The photos are from 2012.  The attic is still a mess at my parents, they have had full plates and cleaning that attic is not high on the list.  The insulation won't actually damage anything, and the insulation fell when they had the roof stripped and replaced a few months before I took the pictures. 

If I lived closer...  but 2 hour drive.

I have flown my Super ringmaster a couple times, but I can't get a good run off the Fox35 on it.  It is a new engine, and has only had a couple quarts of fuel through it.   The landing gear are too short too, and I haven't changed the wheels to something taller yet, taller wheels will help on the grass field I have to fly on too.  It might be a second-hand plane but I still don't want to break it.

Phil




Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2015, 08:09:31 AM »
I forgot about the rockets.  This auction had a number of D powered rockets in it, and some multi-stage, and multi-engine jobs too.  Really cool stuff too, not just streamlined tubes, but semi-scale models. 

The problem is flying "large" engine rockets...  We lost so many of them.  The first time we flew a D size was in the Cleveland Metroparks, plenty of space for C sized stuff.  It was one of the scale rocket planes...  It leveled off under power and continued going out of sight at altitude over the valley rim never to be seen again.

We took a bunch of them to Wisconsin to the farmland that Grandma lived in, and again with several MILES of visibility still lost rockets.  We did recover them better, but some of them just went too far.  We drove through fields in the old Blazer trying to locate the rockets, but we ended up giving up on them.  I haven't flown anything larger than a C since then.  I like to get my toys back.

Phil

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2015, 02:17:42 PM »
I never had the guts to try the Gee Bee "R" or "Z".  Next best thing was the "D", or Sportster version.

This color scheme isn't authentic.  The D models all had very plain paint jobs, so I cheated a little.

No problem with T.O. or landing on asphalt with the wheel pants.

This one uses a Stalker 51

Floyd
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2015, 03:56:06 PM »
I never had the guts to try the Gee Bee "R" or "Z".  Next best thing was the "D", or Sportster version.

This color scheme isn't authentic.  The D models all had very plain paint jobs, so I cheated a little.

No problem with T.O. or landing on asphalt with the wheel pants.

This one uses a Stalker 51

Floyd

Floyd,

As usual you did a nice job with that model.  H^^

You didn't say what the span was?

Model looks brand new!!

Thanks for the reply and the photo.

Outstanding
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #69 on: December 25, 2015, 12:05:09 PM »
Wingspan is 56".  The Stalker has rear exhaust muffler.  I added an extension to keep the goo off the plane.  Therefore, it doesn't "age" as much.  It's a stunter, but good enough to win a 1st in scale at the Northwest Regionals.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #70 on: December 25, 2015, 07:17:42 PM »
Wingspan is 56".  The Stalker has rear exhaust muffler.  I added an extension to keep the goo off the plane.  Therefore, it doesn't "age" as much.  It's a stunter, but good enough to win a 1st in scale at the Northwest Regionals.

Floyd,

What "Class?" And how did you manage to place 1st, when the color scheme isn't documented?

I thought that stuff was important?

Charles

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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2015, 08:43:41 AM »
The documentation has the color scheme and the NW Regionals had Sport, Profile and Authentic scale events in 2015. All three of the events requires the documentation which includes the 3-view, color information and photographs. I put in a page about the full size aircraft and the model but the judges end up using the 3-view and the photographs the most. color photographs are the best but often you only can get black and white, then you have to use written documentation to prove the colors.

Color documentation can be tough, the best method is FS color chips but finding the information about what color the airplane was by FS number is hard to find for civilian aircraft and racing aircraft. For my next project was I was able to photograph the full size aircraft myself and used my FS color fan deck to determine the color for all of the paint colors on the full size. I will then match my paint to match those FS color chips. For the military aircraft there is lots of FS color information. Plastic models will sometimes have color information, I buy the plastic models to see the shape of the wing fillets and other features, and for the color information.

4 pages max for the documentation package for fun scale, 8 pages max for sport and profile and 12 pages max for authentic scale.

Fred
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2015, 01:34:47 PM »
Fred,

My interest is how Floyd could win a 1st in scale at the Northwest Regionals with a model that had no correct documentation at all?

The "D's" weren't even red that I know of?

Don't get me wrong, I think his win is great, kudos to Floyd for that.  H^^

However, he did say he, "cheated a little." Kudos for that also.  LL~ I think? ;D

So, how did Floyd pull off a 1st?

How bad were his compitition?

Only one model in his class, his?  LL~

Floyd, what's the back story?

I may compete with my accurate "Z" and could use advice.

Charles

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2016, 01:00:21 PM »
Well, I'm crossing my "T's" and dotting my "I's" on the Gee Bee Z.

Took a good look at it this morning while some Epoxy was curing on the ARGO II.

I'm really happy with the overall look of the Z. That I have that covered and besides it's too late to really make changes to the construction.

The Gee Bee Z has only one scheme that I know of, but I see photos of replica ones in Museums, done up differently, some fonts, but mostly inconsistancy with color. The word Wasp Jr. on the cowling, I've seen red and blue?

I will re-examine the finishing details like the graphics needed for the scheme because of this.

I would like to get it correct or as close as possible.

Charles







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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2016, 02:07:44 AM »
Enjoying the build Charles, great to see scale modelling is alive and kicking :)

Cheers
Danny

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2016, 09:37:19 AM »
Enjoying the build Charles, great to see scale modelling is alive and kicking :)

Cheers
Danny

Danny,

Yes, it's scale modeling is alive and I've been kicked.  LL~

I do better when other modelers give me a "push" to complete my work and it's a good feeling knowing others have interest.

I gotta get the wings covered, but I'm currently framing the ARGO II.

Couple of things I have to talk with you about. Modeling things.

Thanks for the reply.

Charles
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2016, 04:36:36 PM »
Worked on the Gee Bee Z today.

Managed to get the wing bottoms covered. Wing tops tomorrow.

Snout of the ARGO II can be seen in the photo.  ;D

I was surprised that the wingspan is 58" I always thought it was 55" for some reason?

Charles
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:49:12 PM by Avaiojet »
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2016, 06:03:41 PM »
Good to see your still tinkering with it Charles.  I love watching your builds. H^^
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2016, 09:06:52 AM »
Good to see your still tinkering with it Charles.  I love watching your builds. H^^

Glenn, that's nice of you to say that, thank you.

It's damp today and windy in sunny Florida. I'm not sure I'll be able to do the wing bottom covering because I have to work outside.

See what happens as the day moves on.

I really want to get the wings done so I can do the fuselage covering. There's a bunch on that. The whole thing actually.

Glenn, thanks for the kind reply, it's appreciated.

Charles
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:50:25 PM by Avaiojet »
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #79 on: January 18, 2016, 05:39:38 AM »
So far, I do my modeling work that involves dope on Park picnic tables. However, there was a birthday party at my usual spot, five tables. They get a permit.

Sooooooo, the only place I could cover the wing was at the baseball diamond. I used the bleachers. The last seat was a perfect bench height.

To windy to cover the wing tops outside in the open, so I just put the first coat of dope on the wing bottom.

I used the space in the rear of my Tucson to avoid the wind.

Works for me.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:51:10 PM by Avaiojet »
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #80 on: January 18, 2016, 10:37:24 AM »
Good idea to use the park benches for doping.....as long as your not confused with the other types that use park benches for doping! %^@
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #81 on: January 18, 2016, 11:42:49 AM »
Good idea to use the park benches for doping.....as long as your not confused with the other types that use park benches for doping! %^@

Glenn,

My only Poster, thanks for the reply.

Picnic tables should be free today. Might get the wing tops covered.

I'll know soon.

Thanks for the reply.

Story and photos at 11:00.

Charles
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #82 on: January 18, 2016, 06:52:06 PM »
Did I miss it some where, is that poly-span?   This is poly-span on the Vagabond and the stuff from the fabric store.

By the way when I built Pat's P-47 I had to go out in the yard to paint and sand.   Sure glad I have a paint stand.  But I have no more shade trees as they were taken down last year.
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2016, 05:00:37 PM »
Did I miss it some where, is that poly-span?   This is poly-span on the Vagabond and the stuff from the fabric store.

By the way when I built Pat's P-47 I had to go out in the yard to paint and sand.   Sure glad I have a paint stand.  But I have no more shade trees as they were taken down last year.

John,

Thanks for the reply.

WOW! Nice bi-plane and nice covering jpb.  H^^ Any more photos?

Poly-span and "stuff?" Does the "stuff" shrink with heat like Poly-span?

I don't use poly-span, I like making things difficult for myself.  n~

I should give poly-span another go at it. Not sure if it's any lighter than silkspan? Or stronger?

Did the right side of the wing today, outside in the wind. Yes, I killed myself. That's why I only got one side done. Once I got some pins in it, it wasn't all that bad. This is real old silkspan.

I'll kill myself again tomorrow with the other half.

John, thanks again for the reply.

Charles
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:52:19 PM by Avaiojet »
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2016, 07:47:35 PM »
You're right Charles - yellow/black on the original.
While it's been a long time since I saw it, didn't I see a different scheme on the 1 (or 2?) built for "The Rocketeer"?

Terry


Terry,

Sorry I'm late in responding to your Post.

What a great movie! There's a bit where the Gee Bee Z bellies in after the engine quits from a gun shot.

The Z is sliding along a dirt strip and you can see the attached cable pulling it.  LL~

The second Z in the movie was blue and cream I believe. I have no documentation for that one.

My other R/C Z was black and yellow so I can live with it.

There are some red numbers and red pinstripes to brake the two colors up.

Tomorrow I cover the left wing top AND possibly apply some dope.

Thanks for the reply.

Charles

« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:54:27 PM by Avaiojet »
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2016, 10:13:43 AM »
The Gee Bee Z wing is completely covered. I'll be moving on to the other surfaces.

Yes, I'll have my hands full.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:55:29 PM by Avaiojet »
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2016, 03:27:58 PM »
Charles...
Glad to see you moving at this rate on your 'Z'. Flying wires are sharp, do you have different threads on each end? (right hand at one, left hand on other) Can't imagine how you'd get tautness by any other method

My Gee Bee R1 had flying wires, but was half the scale of your 'Z'. Method was eyelets in wing, pants, fuse...a single solid stainless wire was strung thru, twisted loop ends soldered after passing thru 1/32" holes bored in a square nut, which were drawn into tension with a 2" long machine screw, counter bored in the center of the fuse bottom. (screw turned thru bored center of 3/8" dowel gusseted in lower belly)

R1 was full fused, bulkheads & stringers, scale placed planking, silk covered. Unique in 1974, only C/L Gee Bee to be seen. Whole rash of 'em seemed to follow, mainly R/C...but when we flew in Santa Cruz, it was the only dog in the yard.


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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #87 on: February 06, 2016, 12:14:22 AM »
Charles...
Glad to see you moving at this rate on your 'Z'. Flying wires are sharp, do you have different threads on each end? (right hand at one, left hand on other) Can't imagine how you'd get tautness by any other method

My Gee Bee R1 had flying wires, but was half the scale of your 'Z'. Method was eyelets in wing, pants, fuse...a single solid stainless wire was strung thru, twisted loop ends soldered after passing thru 1/32" holes bored in a square nut, which were drawn into tension with a 2" long machine screw, counter bored in the center of the fuse bottom. (screw turned thru bored center of 3/8" dowel gusseted in lower belly)

R1 was full fused, bulkheads & stringers, scale placed planking, silk covered. Unique in 1974, only C/L Gee Bee to be seen. Whole rash of 'em seemed to follow, mainly R/C...but when we flew in Santa Cruz, it was the only dog in the yard.

Mike,

I just saw your Post. I've been busy typing all day.  LL~

First page Post #21, I explain in detail how I made these. The ends are so tight I believe they will not loosen. If I snug them up they will cary the load of the model.

Largest model I made working flying wires for was my 90" Gee Bee Z. That set-up required plenty of work.

Here's Post #21.

Quote
I actually made these flying wires myself.

What I did was, I machined an original flying wire from high grade steel bar stock. Then I cast 8 molds because none of them were the identical length. They were about .125" in difference.

I then pored pure silver into the casts. Costly though but pure silver won't tarnish with age and looks just like SS Hawthorn Flying wires.

I turned one end on a lathe with a specially designed chuck. Turned the ends for 4-40. These steel clevis are from Great Planes and are 4-40.

Now here's the truth.

I went to my local welder's supply and talked them out of a dozen aluminum welding rods. Free!

I purchased the Great Planes clevis, 8.95 I believe. 12 to a package.

I forced threaded the clevis into the rod end. I then hammered the other end flat so I could drill a hole to accept the 2-56 threaded rod.

Total cost was just for the clevis and two $0.60 12" threaded rods. Nuts washers and lock washers to follow on assembly.

The entire task took about two hours. Took longer to make the aluminum fixtures needed to hold the flying lines.

I've actually made flying wires before. On one model, they were actually working flying wires. This was for a 90" span Gee Bee Z.

 
Mike, thanks for the reply and interest.

Charles
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #88 on: February 06, 2016, 06:09:39 AM »
Looking good, it's always fun when it gets the covering. Makes you feel like you are getting closer to getting the model done

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #89 on: February 06, 2016, 07:47:37 AM »
Looking good, it's always fun when it gets the covering. Makes you feel like you are getting closer to getting the model done

Fred

Fred,

I always felt that the covering was the top of the hill. Downhill from there. Seems like you look at it that way also.

I might try to get some silk on a few of those other parts today. It's been humid but I'll know later in the day.

Thanks for the reply.

Charles
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #90 on: February 06, 2016, 02:29:00 PM »
Charles, I too always feel that the covering is the 'crest', or top of the hill. Invariably, however, each time I'm rudely reminded of the ruts and pitfalls I'm about to encounter in sanding, sealing, and...Final paint! Then, there's the masking tape pulling just one flake at the edge... Grrr... LOL


Still, I persevere. I liked reading Walter Hicks' take on paint for a contest ship he did, a Sterling Mr. Mulligan: "Paint was to be simple, one color..."

This 'Z' will be an example of your expertise, Charles. The 'showroom' of your specialty, if you will.
Your building skills amazed me, some 'out of the box' thinking here. Very complimentary to the Scale column.
Anxious to steal some finish ideas here...

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #91 on: February 07, 2016, 04:33:03 PM »
Mike,

Thanks for the reply.

Painting a scale model is different than painting a stunt ship. I'll have to keep this in mind when I paint the Z.

Graphics also, you can ruin a nice scale model if it doesn't have proper graphics that mirror the actual aircraft. With me, it has to look right.

I'll bet "some" judges really can't see these subtle but important differences? But still, I'll be "correct" with the Z.

Remember, I, that is, CFC Graphics, specialize in correct scale graphics and masks. A plug.  ;D

My Mulligan set is a good example. I did plenty of research to get this set correct.

Well, I have three pieces covered on one side. there's no surface on the TE of the elevator, it was a wrap, and stuck to 1/16".  This was taxing. Rudder will be taxing also.

Covered with silk using dope and a tad of CA.   n~

Thanks for the reply and interest.

Charles

Edited: photo trouble
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:58:59 PM by Avaiojet »
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2016, 07:44:49 PM »
A lot of scale planes want to nose over. 
It is often necessary to sneak the LG forward to get the plane to do touch & go and taxi lap without nosing over.
In reality, planes like the GeeBee were just aimed at the runway and released.  They didn't do many T&G's and didn't taxi much.
 

Paul.

I was reviewing my Thread so's not to double post a photo and I saw your reply.

I apologize, sorry I missed it.

That's a good idea about the landing gear. Too late for the Gee Bee Z, but I'll keep it in mind for my TEXACO 13.

If I Contest, I'll tell the Judge you told me to do it.

Will that help me?

Thanks for the reply, it's appreciated.

Charles
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #93 on: February 07, 2016, 07:50:16 PM »
Quote
You're right Charles - yellow/black on the original.
While it's been a long time since I saw it, didn't I see a different scheme on the 1 (or 2?) built for "The Rocketeer"?

Terry

Terry,

Like I told Paul, sorry I missed your Post.

The Rocketeer was a good movie. Wish I had it in DVD, just VCR. I got a bunch in VCR.  n~

That blue and cream would be nice, but no documentation, unless someone knew where that mock-up is?

I don't believe it's a flying aircraft.

Sorry it took a bit for me to get to you.

Thanks for the reply.

Charles
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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2016, 04:48:38 PM »
Ailerons, both sides, DONE!

Well, covered with silk anyway. I still have to fill the weave. Might get a coat or two on them tomorrow.

The model won't have working ailerons now that it's going CL. They will be glued or something to keep them in place.

Also got the first coat of reduced dope on the ARGO II's framework.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:59:40 PM by Avaiojet »
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2016, 03:49:47 PM »
Whoa! Am I a Doper or what?

Spent a good part of the morning getting dope on all these parts, both sides. Well a few I had to apply silk to first.

The elevators and rudder, I used CA to apply the silk.

ARGO II, Gee Bee Z, and the TEXACO 13 wing.

I'll work on getting the Gee Bee Z fuselage ready for some dope also. That's next.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 08:03:02 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2016, 03:31:31 PM »
Crossing T's and dotting i's.

Bellcrank is in place and rod length has been determined, + or-. Fine tune on assembly.

Plenty of throws. All silk was applied with CA. Covering the fuselage is next. I'll use CA there also.


« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 08:04:29 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2016, 03:53:56 PM »
Hi Charles.  Just a question....How on earth do you cover with CA?  That's one I have never heard of before. H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2016, 04:30:05 AM »
So you think scale is easy!

Covered the fuselage yesterday. Yes it killed me.  HB~>

I'll try to get to the other side of the fuselage covered today.

Doesn't look good right now, but a few layers of dope then primer and fake stitching should bring some life into it. I hope.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 08:05:55 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Gee Bee Z, "R/C to CL" conversion.
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2016, 05:41:50 AM »
You are typing so obviously rumors of this killing you are overstated LL~

CA...  Wow.  Stretched hand tight that looks pretty darn good.

I've never used silk, just silkspan, and that has been years now.  Everything was wet, and put down with dope, and just brushed into place.  As it dried the slack would go away. 

I am almost inspired to try it... Maybe eventually. 

I look forward to seeing what you do. 

Phil


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