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Author Topic: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane  (Read 1078 times)

Offline Jerry Rauch

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Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« on: November 18, 2012, 09:13:55 AM »
I have a Sig Ryan STA kit that can be built as a c/l. I was wondering what it would be like to fly a control line plane that large,(72in. wingspan). I imagine the pull would be substantial, especially when the plane would be most likely underpowered with a 60, as the plans show. I know the older SIG kits were built heavy, and this one is no exception. There are lots of blocks that could be lightened, and some changes can be made to lighten it up, but being reasonable, not a whole lot of weight could be removed.  I have a Saito 91 4 stroke for it as a RC, and would probably use that if I build a control liner. It is a beautiful plane, at this point I'm not sure what to do.
 

Offline Jim Fruit

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 10:44:12 AM »
Jerry:

I would say go for it. The larger airplanes actually seem to fly better. You can trim the airplane to not pull very much. One of the best flying control line scale planes that I have had was a 13 pound Monocoupe with a 6 foot wing span and an O S 91 four stroke for power. Flew it at about 1/3 throttle. I think you have the right combination. Go for it, it can be a lot of fun. If you intend to compete with it, make sure you find your documentation for proof of scale.

Jim Fruit

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 01:39:57 PM »
Go with the big four stroke.  Should fly great and not pull much if you watch the throttle.  Years ago I built the Sterling Stearman, small one for control line with a Wankel for power.  At half throttle or less looked very scale.   Full throttle and it was flying a Rat Racer.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 08:07:28 PM »
I have experience with two large models:

the first spans 80" and came in at 12 lbs. It was not scale but it flew fantastic with a 90 four stroke. I flew it with a 60 glow and it was under powered. The key on the large models is not the line length, but the AMA wants you to have lines that are 65-70 feet long for competition. Generally I fly the large models with 60' lines with no problem. I have since converted this model to the E-Flite 60 electric motor with a 16" prop, 6S battery it flies at 1/2 power with no problems.

The second was the Sig 1/4 scale Morrisey Bravo, 87" span, 90 four stroke and it came in at 15-16 lbs, flew great also.

The main thing to remember is the adustable leadout guide wiill keep the line tension within reason. If the model flies really fast and weighs 14 lbs it will pull really hard, but larger models fly slower than smaller models. I start with an adjustable leadout guide and move the line guide forward until I have enough line tension to keep the model out there, but no so much that I have to use both hands.

I flew both models with one hand, while the other hand was on the electronic controls transmitter on my hip. If you have to use both hands to hang on then it's flying too fast or the line guide is not adjusted correctly.

If 87" is not large enough consider building the Sig 1/3 scale Spacewalker at 103", A friend built one for CL scale (and still flies it) and it comes in at 18 lbs and it is flown with one hand. again the line guide location is critical. Grant flies this model with the E-Flite E-160 electric motor, the motor is as large as a soup can.

....the 72" span is a great size and the 60 should pull it no problem, just try to keep the weight under 10 lbs.

Bigger flies better.

Fred Cronenwett
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Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 08:53:53 AM »
If 87" is not large enough consider building the Sig 1/3 scale Spacewalker at 103", A friend built one for CL scale (and still flies it) and it comes in at 18 lbs and it is flown with one hand. again the line guide location is critical. Grant flies this model with the E-Flite E-160 electric motor, the motor is as large as a soup can.

Bigger flies better.

Fred Cronenwett

Fred, is this big Spacewalker legal under AMA competition rules? I'm wondering whether the weight or power would disqualify it from competition.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Trostle

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 12:01:36 PM »
Fred, is this big Spacewalker legal under AMA competition rules? I'm wondering whether the weight or power would disqualify it from competition.

Dennis,

Instead of casting doubt on limits on the size of any CL scale airplane, why not check the rules for yourself?  The airplane that Fred described is perfectly legal under the AMA CL Scale rules.  This is how nasty rumors based on unsubstantiated statements get started.  It is all quite clear in the AMA rulebook.

By the way, the CL Scale rules do have a weight limit of 20 pounds.  Also, electric motors of any size can be used.

Keith

Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 02:19:14 PM »
Dennis,

Instead of casting doubt on limits on the size of any CL scale airplane, why not check the rules for yourself?  The airplane that Fred described is perfectly legal under the AMA CL Scale rules.  This is how nasty rumors based on unsubstantiated statements get started.  It is all quite clear in the AMA rulebook.

By the way, the CL Scale rules do have a weight limit of 20 pounds.  Also, electric motors of any size can be used.

Keith

Keith, respectfully, I'm not trying to cast doubt on anything or start a rumor. I live in Canada and I don't have access to the AMA rules. I am interested in building a scale model and I do have the 1/3 Spacewalker kit. I'm also interested in getting into electrics. I simply want any model I build to be legal. Hope this explains the situation adequately.

I was going to ask Fred for information regarding the model in question but I'm not going to take the chance as a result of your reply.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 04:07:28 PM »
Kieth is correct the weight limit for AMA events in CL scale is 20 lbs and re-reading the rules there is no limit for electric power. Grant flies the Spacewalker with an E-Flite 160 brushless motor and a 10S battery if I remember correctly. Wing span almost means nothing, it the overall weight of the model and if flying with glow power you can't be larger than 1.25 cubic inches, if flying with a four stroke you can have up to a 2.5 cubic inch motor. I honestly wouldn't want to fly a model with a 1.25 two stroke for power.

Even if the rules allow these large motors and 20 lbs the 10-14 lb range is the largest I go these days. I retired a model that came in at 80" and slightly over 12 lbs and it was quite large. It flew with a OS 90FX two stroke and it had more than enough power.

I like the 60-70" span range for the larger scale models.

If you do build the Spacewalker you will have to do some swaping out of some of the wood, there is alot of plywood in the kit that is not required and will put the model over 20 lbs if built per plans. I believe Grant built a new wing with Balsa Ribs and other lighter structure in the fuselage.

Fred C.
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 04:27:35 PM »
Keith, respectfully, I'm not trying to cast doubt on anything or start a rumor. I live in Canada and I don't have access to the AMA rules. I am interested in building a scale model and I do have the 1/3 Spacewalker kit. I'm also interested in getting into electrics. I simply want any model I build to be legal. Hope this explains the situation adequately.

I was going to ask Fred for information regarding the model in question but I'm not going to take the chance as a result of your reply.

Dennis,

Also. respectfully in turn.  Yes, I know you are in Canada.  I would think access to the AMA website and the AMA rulebook would be available to you and I thought you were asking about the legality of a model being flown here, so I thought you were asking about the AMA rules.  It is easy to look up.  I have no idea what is used in Canada.

I am sure that Fred Cronenwett will be more than glad to answer any questions you have.  (Fred and I have had a long standing mutual admiration society.)  Please to not use me as an excuse to not ask for more information.

Keith

Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 12:31:12 PM »
Keith; It's good to know the Rumor Police are always on the lookout for possible infractions of forum protocol.  :##
          Hope you have a good sense of humor or I'll be toast again. Anyway, thanks for the rules information.
          I didn't  realize they were on the web. Now I know.

Fred; I'll send you an email regarding information about the big Spacewalker, and thanks for the information you have
         already freely provided. Sharing of information one of the great things about the Stunthanger.

Jerry; I sincerely apologize for the off-topic turn your thread has taken as a result of my first post. I certainly didn't intend
         for this to happen.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Online Paul Smith

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 03:49:13 PM »
I have a four-pound profile scale plane with a STRONG .40.  I don't fly it at full power very long.  It pulls hard.  I use 3 x .021" lines, although the rules permit less. 

You can go heavier if you want.  Three .027" lines can lift 375 pounds.  The handle, bellcrank, and pilot are somebody else's problem.
Paul Smith

Offline Allen Goff

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Re: Question about a large 60 powered control line airplane
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 05:51:37 PM »
Jerry, go to page 8 on this site and you will see my Ryan 200 STA (Sig kit). It flies great with a Satio 91 four stroke. It is fun to fly. Any question, drop me a line.

Blessings
Allen


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