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Author Topic: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?  (Read 3128 times)

Offline Avaiojet

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GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« on: September 01, 2016, 08:44:08 AM »
I'm putting together a model of the Gee Bee R3.

I'm at the point where I have to consider wheel/tire installation.

I believe I have only two options?

I could place the wheels in the fiberglass pants and not have them removable.

Or, I could allow for wheel service and replacement.

Here's what I'm thinking. The lightest foam wheels won't hold up and this model won't be light.

I have two 3.5" rubber wheels that weigh 2.1oz. each. I believe they will hold up if not set up to be replaced.

Dubro has a 3.25" wheel that weighs 1.75oz. each which is rubber and Dubro's Tech says they will hold up.

The trade off is a bit of extra weight or the trade off of replacing foam wheels.

Another thing. There's always another thing.

If I set the wheel pants up for wheel replacement, what has to be done to the pant requires the addition of some minor weight. I.e., hatch, wood enforcement and hold down bolts. Simple, but more work also.  HB~>

So, has anyone ever put the model's wheels in pants where they could not be serviced? And now wish you did?

Thanks in advance.

Charles 
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 01:49:09 PM »
Weak landing gears are a major failure point on CL scale models.
Over half your points are related to ground handling. 
Takeoff, touch & go, landing, taxi lap, realism.
I suggest making the entire landing gear leg, not just the wheel, removeable.
Paul Smith

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2016, 02:55:41 PM »
and its a good idea when people give you valid helpful  advice not to delete there responses,, it is just possible even though you dislike someone, they may be trying to help
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2016, 03:09:13 PM »
The left wheel will get bald first so they have to be replaceable. I have one model that I have been flying since 1995 and the left wheel is totally bald. the touch and go's and landings really beat up the tires.

If the tires are too soft the foam will compress and get stuck in the wheel pants. That happened to a friends model and the flat spot on the tire made the model un-flyable (at the Nats of all places...) and could not rotate in the wheel pant. I have gone to hard tires or tires with very little compression for that reason. I will take a heavier wheel any day so that they don't get a flat spot. The Dave Brown foam wheels are really light but will get a flat spot if the model is too heavy.

Keep in mind that we are not trying to have the model weigh what the stunt guys are looking for. My larger models range from 25 to 35 ounces per square foot of wing area. By stunt standards my models are a flying pig, but I am not trying to the stunt pattern. The heavier models penetrant the wind better and has long as you don't exceed 30 ounces per square foot of wing area you will be ok.

The other reason for removable tires is to clean the tires when you need to clean it up before a contest.

Fred
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2016, 03:39:34 PM »
The left wheel will get bald first so they have to be replaceable. I have one model that I have been flying since 1995 and the left wheel is totally bald. the touch and go's and landings really beat up the tires.

If the tires are too soft the foam will compress and get stuck in the wheel pants. That happened to a friends model and the flat spot on the tire made the model un-flyable (at the Nats of all places...) and could not rotate in the wheel pant. I have gone to hard tires or tires with very little compression for that reason. I will take a heavier wheel any day so that they don't get a flat spot. The Dave Brown foam wheels are really light but will get a flat spot if the model is too heavy.

Keep in mind that we are not trying to have the model weigh what the stunt guys are looking for. My larger models range from 25 to 35 ounces per square foot of wing area. By stunt standards my models are a flying pig, but I am not trying to the stunt pattern. The heavier models penetrant the wind better and has long as you don't exceed 30 ounces per square foot of wing area you will be ok.

The other reason for removable tires is to clean the tires when you need to clean it up before a contest.

Fred

Fred,

Thanks for the reply and the explanation. You have no idea how it's appreciated.

Yes, this Gee Bee R3 is not designed to do the pattern. So, as you said, weight doesn't have to be an issue.

For this kind of model 65oz. to 70oz. isn't all that bad.

Now I have to choose an engine, I'm rethinking the Jen .57.

Now I'm thinking throttle.

Fred, thanks again for the informative and kind reply.

Charles
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2016, 03:45:06 PM »
Mark,

I don't dislike anyone, and you, I feel sorry for you.

You have been trolling me almost every day since I came on Stunt hanger AND also over at Stuka Stunt.

Please direct me to one single Thread or Post where you gave me honest kudos without sneaking in a trolling comment?

You also tell really bad lies and I've said this before. You told this Forum I caused the same kind of trouble at RCU that I do here at SH. An absolute lie.

So, obviously I'm a victim of your trolling and now there's only a few others still trolling me. So be it.

If you want courtesy from me, I suggest you own up to your antics and bring this to the attention of the Forum with an apology. After all, you're antics and that of some others causes members to leave the Forum and not to look back. I've said this for years.

Think I'm kidding. I just received an e-mail from a member, I knew the name, who needed vinyl graphics. You called vinyl graphics "cheating," that's trolling and a slap in the face to any and all modelers who uses them. Nice of you to say that. Troll me but those comments reach others. And you don't care. That's trolling.

Just like a model being a "Big fat pig" if it's over 50 oz. You said that. Others read your trolling replies like that. How do you feel that males them feel? you don't care. That's trolling.

So I ask him where he has been? he said he left because he was "Sick and tired of trash comments." This man was a great modeler and had much to offer and contributed.

Hey Mark, ya got something with modelers that have something to offer?

I've tried to reach out to those that have bashed me, including you many times, but there has been no true response.

So, if you really want to help, then pony up, apologize for your past antics and we can start from scratch.

Otherwise, keep on trolling. "Keep on Trucking," get it.

Charles

 Oh, BTW I explained in detail why that 15% thing doesn't relate to this model. It's above for you to read.

If you had asked that question properly it wouldn't have been deleted. I tolerate absolutely no trolling here at my "sand box."

Sand Box, your words, just more proof you're a Troll. Plenty of examples.
really,?
you are not in your sandbox here,,
you did not explain anything you rambled,
I have given you "kudos"
I never said a plane over 50 oz was a "pig"
I did not ask a question, I made a very well known statement, to get a plane to land properly 15degrees from the cg is a KNOWN thing to work
You and I had the same issue on RCU, as did others, as well as on Stuka Stunt.
quit trying to make me look bad, I made a legitimate comment intended to help you out , you deleted it and then wrote your typical crap to try and make me look bad after you deleted the evidence that proved YOU were the one being irrational,,
so, do not continue to lie about me
do not continue to say I troll you
I am only trying to help people, including you though you refuse to acknowledge it
grow the hell up Charles
you are not worth wasting my energy on, I only try to provide help...
NEVER accuse me of lying again without written proof, attorneys make a living off slander and liable suites,,
as far as you "disliking me" , Charles i have personal messages you sent me threatening me both here and on RCU,, so yeah, its pretty damn clear you dislike me, maybe because I know what I post about and it shows maybe you dont?
stop
just stop
quit trying so hard to make me your scape goat,,

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Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 04:24:36 PM »
Charles, I agree here, why not have the entire assembly (and not just the wheels) removable?

Extra weight here is not going to be an issue and I agree with the landings part being a BIG issue - cop a good thump down under bad conditions and you are going to wish that it was removable for a visual check.

(And, for what its worth, all forums are indeed a stage, all posters are here are actors and all readers are a valid audience - if it were not so then so much continual rhetoric would not exist.)

Action, camera, lights -now back on with the show mate!

Exit stage left, Chris.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2016, 05:24:53 PM »
Charles, I agree here, why not have the entire assembly (and not just the wheels) removable?

Extra weight here is not going to be an issue and I agree with the landings part being a BIG issue - cop a good thump down under bad conditions and you are going to wish that it was removable for a visual check.

(And, for what its worth, all forums are indeed a stage, all posters are here are actors and all readers are a valid audience - if it were not so then so much continual rhetoric would not exist.)

Action, camera, lights -now back on with the show mate!

Exit stage left, Chris.

Chris,

Thanks for the reply.

Yea, I guess you're, the world is a stage, but rest assured, I'm a bad actor.

I mentioned the gear setup being able to be removed. If you view the photos you can see how they are held on. Just like most gear.

I don't want to cut into the fiberglass to allow changing wheels, but from what Fred said, it would be a good thing.

Thanks again for the reply.

Charles
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2016, 05:41:45 PM »
Mark,

I don't enjoy any of this.

We have been through this before and you know I've tried to get Robert to NOT permit you to Post in my Threads or for you to reply to my Posts.

We are not actors, this Forum is NOT a stage and these members are not the audience. No one wants to read this kind of stuff.

But, you just have this thing about me.

Yes, you are right, this Thread isn't in my "sand box." Sorry about that, must be my age.

Mark, look, what say, we can still work it out.

I'll extend a hand and I've said this before.

Give it some thought and lets put all this behind us.

And don't think I couldn't use or want the help, because I could.

Charles


I have tried, you delete my post
I have tried, you attack me
I have helped , you try to negate my help or accuse me of "trolling"
I have better things to do that waste my time on your petty nonsense, I only try to help constructively,
so why don't YOU quit manipulating it and life will be good
as an exapmle, I post a suggestion about a known fact regarding landing gear that anyone on here that knows will verify, you delete it, and then proceed to ramble about how its wrong,,
whatever , all I did was post a suggestion, take it or leave it, just quit threatening me, quit trying to make me out to be something i am not,
grow up, play nice or go back to YOUR private place.
enough, as I have said over and over, I wont let you mislead others with misinformation, the landing gear was an honest attempt to help and you snub me, its not me charles, its YOU
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2016, 05:57:10 PM »
Mark,

You mentioned that 15% for the forward angle of the gear. I should have Posted this photo of the gear and wheel pants.

I traced this from a CAD drawing of the original Gee Bee R3.

I haven't checked for the 15%, but this setup is exactly like the R/C ARF Gee Bee R3 gear. This model is sold by Donut Models. Flies off the ground well and landings are OK also. Depending on who's on the stick. Check out You tube!

Thanks for the reply, it's appreciated.

Charles.

P.S.

Mark, a new day, a new friendship.

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2016, 08:09:13 PM »
    I would just like to say that you should just scrap the whole project. Kit bashing is one thing, but what you try to do with mish moshed collections of airplane parts is just one problem after another. You are trying to install a landing gear on a wing that was not designed for it, for an airplane that the wing was not designed for, and it's all just a fantasy airplane anyway. Why is this in the Scale column? You can not enter a scale model of a fantasy airplane in any C/L scale contest. Flying Scale models is what this forum section is all about. You are presenting drawings on a cartoon cad program that really relate to nothing and comparing it to an ARF put out by a company that no one has ever heard of, and even though you don't fly model airplanes of any kind right now you make comments on it's take off and landing capabilities ??? ??? ???
   Seriously. Just forget the whole thing and work on something else. Or start from scratch and design, and I mean REALLY design, a proper air frame to do the job at hand so it can do it properly and safely.
   I'm just sayin',
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2016, 09:34:15 PM »
    I would just like to say that you should just scrap the whole project.

I'm to far into it and I don't discourage easily. Besides it's a great project. 17K hits at the Gee Bee R3 Thread over at CFC Graphics Vendor's Corner.

Quote
Kit bashing is one thing, but what you try to do with mish moshed collections of airplane parts is just one problem after another.

I look at it as one challange after another. Parts are what make model airplanes. The wings aren't really all that bad and the glass wheel pants, parts like that are used all the time in model building. The rest of the stuff I'm making from scratch. That's what I enjoy doing.

Quote
You are trying to install a landing gear on a wing that was not designed for it

No big deal there, the tasks have been completed. It's done!

Quote
for an airplane that the wing was not designed for, and it's all just a fantasy airplane anyway.

The Gee Bee R3 is absolutely a great design. Thousands of kits were sold by many manufacturers and many are still selling. You should Google "Gee Bee R3" It'll be a shocker!

Quote
Why is this in the Scale column?

Because this is what scale modelers do. Play around with oversize wheel pants.

Quote
You can not enter a scale model of a fantasy airplane in any C/L scale contest.

You may be correct, but I don't enter contests. The model is just for fun and I've liked this model design for a long period of time.

Quote
Flying Scale models is what this forum section is all about.

Maybe it will get moved? I already have what I need from the Thread.

Quote
You are presenting drawings on a cartoon cad program that really relate to nothing

The most recent upgrade to my CAD program costs $1K and BLOWS most other 2D programs away. Plus, my vector line drawings are a continous line, fast with laser cutters. That's why I have many customers who pay me to produce vector line drawings for laser cutting. Mostly large R/C Warbirds.

Quote
and comparing it to an ARF put out by a company that no one has ever heard of,

Google it and behold.

Quote
and even though you don't fly model airplanes of any kind right now you make comments on it's take off and landing capabilities ??? ??? ???
 

I made it clear, these Gee Bee R3's are all over You Tube. Check it out.


 
Quote
Seriously. Just forget the whole thing and work on something else. Or start from scratch and design, and I mean REALLY design, a proper air frame to do the job at hand so it can do it properly and safely.
   I'm just sayin',
    Dan McEntee

In the beginning I thought about that but decided to use the wing I already had because I hate building wings. I honestly hate building wings. I REALLY designed everything but the wing. Well, I did design changes to the wing to fit the gear and what was necessary for attaching both wing halves and cleaning up the retract bays. Not to mention this wing had no flaps. Now it has.

As far as the airframe, I designed that from scratch and it will be just fine. I've designed a few.

Take a look at the build, I'm not hiding anything. just give the project a bit of a chance, it will be a great model when I'm done.

And guess what? I plan on braking in the engine long before the model is completed so I can fly it immediately.

Be patient you'll see.

Thanks for the reply and interest.

Charles
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: GB R3 wheel/tire installation?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2016, 08:14:50 AM »
I've received enough information from this Thread and decided to set the wheel pants up so I can replace the wheels.

Anyone interested in viewing the progress of my Gee Bee R3, The build is at CFC Graphic's vendor's corner.

Gentlemen, thank you for the help.

Charles

P.S.

I thought I'd drop this photo in of the parts that make up the fuselage airframe. I designed the fuselage airframe and the parts in my CAD program.

I enjoy making these kind of drawings because it reminds me of my drafting days where we would use different colors of ink. More time comsuming back then. The good old days.

Edited: Same photo but a different look.






« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 04:46:29 AM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.


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