Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing > Scale Models
F4B rule doubt (FAI)
fred cesquim:
we had our last brazilian Nats and had 2 doubt on judging:
the FAI rules 2023 states :
6.2C.3. Take-off:
The model aircraft should stand still on the ground with the engine(s) running without being held
All engines must be operating for full marks. If the model aircraft is touched after the word NOW
has been called the manoeuvre will score zero
The model aircraft should then accelerate to a realistic speed and lift smoothly from the ground,
climb at an angle consistent with the subject aircraft and level off at Normal Flight Level. The
manoeuvre may, depending on the subject aircraft, take more than one lap to finish.
first doubt: if the model dosenīt have any throttle control, obviously this routine is impossible, in this case, should the take off be zero? same apply to landing as they states we shpuld land on throttle control.
second doubt:
on the flight schedule they have
1 Take-off 14
2 5 Laps of Straight and Level Flight 8
3
Option 1:
12
4
Option 2:
12
5
Option 3:
12
6
Option 4:
12
7 Landing 14
in this case we have 4 optional demonstrations. How should we score notes if one pilot only do 2 and the other do 3 maneuvers?
we donīt have a linf tradition of scale competition in Brazil, so we are trying to follow the FAI book the best possible
Paul Smith:
In almost all CL scale events you need effective throttle control to get competative marks. There are rare exceptions such as 1/2A and a local "old time" scale event. But in general, throttle control is the key element in flying scale.
Back when I first entered The Brodak I used a none-throttle model just to participate. I got 55 points out of a possible 100. The next year the same plane with a throttle got 94.
In AMA or FAI you can still enter if you can't do the required number of options, but you will not score well.
Tim Wescott:
At least in AMA scale, if you leave out an option you get a zero score for it. That's generally penalty enough.
But -- and I just checked this. There's no reason to leave any options out. There's four options in an F4B flight, and there's four options that any plane at all should be able to do (high flight, lazy 8, touch & go and overshoot). No flaps are required, and the only aerobatics is being able to fly above 45 degrees for a lap or two. If you can fly stunt, and if your plane isn't a total slug (or a scale model of an X-3 Stiletto) then there's the wingover and the inside loop, which are both appropriate for light planes.
(And if you are flying an X-3 you'll have retracts and flaps, so there).
So if you're modeling some pioneer aircraft or some light plane with fixed gear and no flaps you -- potentially -- don't have to lose any points. Granted, doing a touch & go isn't going to wow the judges in quite the same way as a bomb drop or demonstrating one engine out, so to get a really high score you'd have to be perfect to win -- but you can still do it, and compete.
fred cesquim:
--- Quote from: Paul Smith on July 04, 2023, 09:43:24 PM ---In almost all CL scale events you need effective throttle control to get competative marks. There are rare exceptions such as 1/2A and a local "old time" scale event. But in general, throttle control is the key element in flying scale.
Back when I first entered The Brodak I used a none-throttle model just to participate. I got 55 points out of a possible 100. The next year the same plane with a throttle got 94.
In AMA or FAI you can still enter if you can't do the required number of options, but you will not score well.
--- End quote ---
i am aweare of that, but still my doubt is: how we score a take off of unthrottled models? only 50% of the total K factor? i am asking because as seems obvious to use throttle, some of competitors donīt use them here ( and i canīt discourage the few contestants to enter competition)
do the taxi count as optional maneuver or is it part of the take off / landing pattern?
fred cesquim:
--- Quote from: Tim Wescott on July 04, 2023, 10:50:03 PM ---At least in AMA scale, if you leave out an option you get a zero score for it. That's generally penalty enough.
But -- and I just checked this. There's no reason to leave any options out. There's four options in an F4B flight, and there's four options that any plane at all should be able to do (high flight, lazy 8, touch & go and overshoot). No flaps are required, and the only aerobatics is being able to fly above 45 degrees for a lap or two. If you can fly stunt, and if your plane isn't a total slug (or a scale model of an X-3 Stiletto) then there's the wingover and the inside loop, which are both appropriate for light planes.
(And if you are flying an X-3 you'll have retracts and flaps, so there).
So if you're modeling some pioneer aircraft or some light plane with fixed gear and no flaps you -- potentially -- don't have to lose any points. Granted, doing a touch & go isn't going to wow the judges in quite the same way as a bomb drop or demonstrating one engine out, so to get a really high score you'd have to be perfect to win -- but you can still do it, and compete.
--- End quote ---
i agree, itīs fairly easy to come up with the optional maneuvers on any plane, but if he mistake, miss or leave off one of them , we then must zero the note. as the rules says "optional" i was mislead to take it for non mandatory, but this optional means "choose any you can do but you must perform any 4 optionals". correct?
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