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Author Topic: F4B changes  (Read 1677 times)

Offline Allen Goff

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F4B changes
« on: April 14, 2022, 10:44:35 AM »
Just in. The FAI Ciam committee has approved the use of 2.4GHz for operational control and stand-off static judging for FAI F4B.
Printed rules book will be out soon. More information as we get it. :)! :)! #^ #^
Blessings
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2022, 02:59:38 PM »
 The guys flying Europe will love it, they have been working with the down the line systems for too long! It's normal for us here in the USA but outside of the USA they had to use down the line....

Fred
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Fred Cronenwett
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2022, 09:39:51 PM »
I was messaging a CL scale pilot in the UK and he tells me that the UK and French rules had allowed 2.4 Ghz since 2017. Nice to see that the FAI has caught up with the AMA, Uk and French rules.

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Fred Cronenwett
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2022, 12:42:01 PM »
I don't know why that would be, Paul, during the past 12 or so years I have judged c/l scale at the nats I have seen plenty of retracts in use.  If you can build a c/l scale model, you can conquer retracts.
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2022, 02:51:43 PM »
this goes with any scale model regardless of what class it's entered in you want the model to be able to get all of the options in. Flaps count as one option and add to the realism. retracts when they work have a definite cool factor and count as two options in Sport scale. it depends if you want to do flying options or have more mechanical options. The mechanical options are not always easy as they look, retracts are a royal pain to get working right pilots earn all of the 2 options they are worth.

Some judges know how the retracts work on the P-51 and P-47 on the full size aircraft, some do not.
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Fred Cronenwett
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Offline Trostle

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2022, 07:33:05 PM »
Quote from: Paul Smith on April 15, 2022, 02:13:29 PM

It would be a safer bet just build a fixed gear model and avoid the 25% deduction from the whole flight score.


Does not the 25% reduction in the flight score for a fixed gear to on a model of a full scale aircraft which has retracts only apply to the FAI CL Scale rules? 

Remembering that there are 100 points in the AMA rules for the total flight score:  The way I read the AMA CL Scale rules is that there is only a 1.5 point reduction from the  10 points available for realism of flight if retracts are not demonstrated.  (Paragraph 9.6.4)  There is another 1.5 reduction in the realism of flight if flaps are not demonstrated for models of aircraft that used flaps.  That is a BIG difference compared to the FAI 25% penalty to the whole flight score.   Does not seem to be a significant factor if retracts are not used as long as six flight options can be demonstrated for the entire AMA flight demonstration score.  (Paragraph 6.5.1)

Keith
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2022, 08:07:48 AM »
Bingo.
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Offline Allen Goff

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2022, 07:39:33 AM »
Paul, this is where reading the rules comes in. I have read the rules book, both AMA and FAI over and over and still before each Nats for the past 15 years. It is the responsibility of the contestants to know and understand the rules beforehand. Ask any past team member, Steve Ashby, Chuck Snyder, Richard Schneider , Dick Byron, Keith Throstle, Mike Scott, Ralph Burnstein that you build and compete knowing the rules beforehand. You can’t blame the judges or the system. Each is the sole responsibility of their outcome.
Blessings
« Last Edit: April 17, 2022, 03:26:49 PM by Allen Goff »
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Offline Hemi Steve

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2022, 01:37:50 PM »
I am reading the rules (2021) and see on page 8 of Volume 4 of the FAI Sporting code that there is a 2 year rules freeze:

RULE FREEZE FOR THIS VOLUME
With reference to paragraph A.10.3. of the Volume CIAM General Rules:
In all classes, the two-year rule for no changes to model aircraft/space model specifications, manoeuvre
schedules and competition rules will be strictly enforced. For Championship classes, changes may be
proposed in the year of the World Championship of each category.
For official classes without Championship status, the two-year cycle begins in the year that the Plenary
Meeting approved the official status of the class. For official classes, changes may be proposed in the
second year of the two-year cycle.
This means that in Volume F4:
(a) changes can next be made at the 2022 Plenary meeting for application from January 2023;
(b) provisional classes are not subject to this restriction.
The only exceptions allowed to the two-year rule freeze are genuine and urgent safety matters, indispensable
rule clarifications, noise rulings and changes to the provisional classes.

The paragraph says that the 2 year freeze will be strictly enforced. By this paragraph, the 2.4 gHz change cannot be in force for the 2022 Nats. So will the "strictly enforced" 2 year freeze be eliminated?

I've made one pass through the rules and am disappointed in this late change as it seems to be more like sport scale rather than the Authentic Scale rules that I documented and built my model to.

Also, I see the new weight limit is now 7 kg but I don't see and flying line diameter specs or any reference to AMA line size requirements.

Steve


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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2022, 02:32:48 PM »
Quote from: Allen Goff on April 17, 2022, 07:39:33 AM
Paul, this is where reading the rules comes in. I have read the rules book, both AMA and FAI over and over and still before each Nats for the past 15 years. It is the responsibility of the contestants to know and understand the rules beforehand. Ask any past team member, Steve Ashby, Chuck Snyder, Richard Schneider , Dick Byron, Keith Throstle, Mike Scott, Ralph Burnstein that you build and compete knowing the rules beforehand. You can’t blame the judges or the system. Each is the sole responsibility of their outcome.
Blessings

   Just a question, where is Paul's post from April 15, 2022??

  Dan McEntee
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2022, 05:27:11 PM »
I am not entering the FAI, F4B category but if someone wanted to would they need to have an FAI license?

I assume the answer is yes, but just checking

Fred
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Fred Cronenwett
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Offline BillLee

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2022, 06:41:00 PM »
Quote from: Fred Cronenwett on May 10, 2022, 05:27:11 PM
I am not entering the FAI, F4B category but if someone wanted to would they need to have an FAI license?

I assume the answer is yes, but just checking

Fred
The answer is yes and no.

If the contest is an FAI- recognized event.e.g. a World Cup or a World or Continental championship, yes. If it's just a local contest, then no.

Bill
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Bill Lee
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Offline Allen Goff

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Re: F4B changes
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2022, 07:36:38 PM »
AMA Nationals F4B, you don’t need a FAI stamp
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