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Author Topic: Electronic Controll  (Read 2153 times)

Offline John Rist

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Electronic Controll
« on: August 25, 2006, 11:23:48 PM »
I am close to building a 7 channel controll line system.  I am laying out the PCB now and hope to be well into building the first one in 4 to 6 weeks. Three of the channels are proportional. The other 4 are ON-OFF.  I hope to have channel reversing on all 7 channels and have idle trim on the throttle channel.  The airborne receiver will weigh less than a once. The sending unit will fit on the handle with the throttle lever under the right thumb. It looks like it will be in the $200 range less battries servos and lines.  $250 with lines and a handle.  I guess the question is this a viable product?  I am going to build one for my 90" Eindecker. I hope to fire the machine gun (no bullets of course  **) ). I also hope to have smoke and Snoopy will hit the silk at the end of the flight.  With 7 channels the possibilities are huge.  If it works (BIG IF  ???) I could build more if their is a market for them.
John Rist
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Offline Leroy Heikes

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 07:26:47 AM »
John;
     I'm afraid your estimated prices may be a little high to be enticing to very many. having a source of reliable electronic controls designed for C/L models is a great idea, but Clancy has a single function system for less than $40 (I think it is actually half of that, but I can not remember) and a multi function (I think he can go to 7) for around a $100. I admit it is just the electronics and you have to provide a box to put it in.
    However I'm looking forward to hearing more about it and your Eindecker.

Leroy

Offline John Rist

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2006, 10:23:57 PM »
Cost is up in the air at this time  **).  The fact of the matter this is just a fun project for me.  Anybody that thinks he going to get rich in the UC world is sniffing the old time glue.  (I always wondered why I enjoyed buildind models as a kid). First step is to show up a contest and prove to my self that it works under the stress of competion.   However you have given me much to think about.  A 1 channel unit would be easy to design and build but if you only need 1 channel wouldn't a three line rig be cheaper. The problem with an electronic setup is you need insulated control lines.  This seems worth the effort on a multi channel unit but a bit of a hassle on a single channel unit.  Having said all that I have never tried to rig a 3rd line.  It may be a bear to get it to work reliably.  Anyway I will post pictures and a progress report from time to time.
John Rist
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Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 05:58:37 AM »
John,
The single channel systems are usually used for throttle. There is an advantage! During takeoff, landing, and a taxi demonstration (if you choose to use it) there are times when the lines can go slack. With a mechanical system you lose control of both the elevator and throttle with slack lines. I've seen many high speed ground loops due to this. With electronics you can still control the throttle and shut down the engine.

Regarding the insulated lines. Only one needs to be insulated; I leave the ground side of the circuit bare. I have found that with two insulated lines the friction of them rubbing together is very high and control feel around neutral becomes very insensitive.

Good to see in your other post that you are enjoying the C/L conversion project.

Chuck

Offline Darrell Mims

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 06:53:43 AM »
 8)  Good to know there Chuck    Do you have a source to get those onsulated lines ?

Offline Leroy Heikes

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 07:56:49 AM »
I used Malin -7, and Malon-7. Malin-7 is uncoated, and malon-7 is nylon coated. From http://www.malinco.com/fishing/stainless_cable.html This is salt water fishing cable.

Leroy

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 07:28:26 PM »
Another brand of deep sea fishing line is Surflon. I got mine at Jann's Netcraft in toledo Ohio. web site is something like jansnetcraft. It comes up on google.

Offline John Rist

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 09:46:16 PM »
The one I was looking at is:
 
http://www.mcmaster.com/

Search on aircraft cable.  I plan to do a price comparison.  Just remember insulated cable is big.  It takes about 2X diameter to get the correct pull strength.  At a glance the Malon-7 looks good because it comes in wide range of sizes.  It all depends on cost. The nice thing about McMaster-Car is the pricing is right on the web site and you can buy any length you want.  Also they have nuts bolts etc at a good price.  When I get it all sorted out I will post the results.  My 90" 13 pound Eindecker will need BIG lines.  n~
John Rist
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Offline Darrell Mims

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2006, 07:15:36 PM »
8)   Thanks for the addresses   I needed a site to go to and get those wires !!

Offline John Rist

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2006, 08:08:01 PM »
Has anybody actually been able to buy some insulated line? The malon-7 looks good but Malon direct has a $75 minimum and I have not been able to find a stocking distributor that has the 200' roll.  McMaster-Car  has stock but is expensave per ft. I have not been able to track down the Surflon.  n~

Anyway right now I am leaning toward Malon direct.  I am sure I can use it up or sell it.
John Rist
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Offline Leroy Heikes

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2006, 05:15:37 AM »
John;
    I have bought line from Malin direct. I bought two 300' spools. One nylon coated the other uncoated Coffee Colored, and some crimp hardware.

Leroy

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2006, 05:48:54 AM »
John,
Try this: http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/afw-7strand-leader-wire/311668.aspx

Note that the diameters given include the thickness of the coating. At different times I have looked for this wire the pull test has varied around. The last time I bought 125# test and the stainless wire inside was actually 0.027". I suspect the 130# on there now is the same wire size. I too noted that McMaster's price is way too high, but their prices on "wire rope" (bare, uninsulated control lines) are pretty reasonable.
Chuck

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2006, 11:18:08 AM »
John and Chuck,
John Brodak sent me an E-mail and stated that he will be stocking insulated lines. 

Clancy
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.

Offline Leroy Heikes

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2006, 05:00:25 AM »
Clancy;
    Thanks for the info! that will make it easier to get in the future. I also need to get in contactwith you to get some of your linear potentiometers.

Leroy

Offline John Rist

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2006, 11:37:46 AM »
John,
Try this: http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/afw-7strand-leader-wire/311668.aspx

Note that the diameters given include the thickness of the coating. At different times I have looked for this wire the pull test has varied around. The last time I bought 125# test and the stainless wire inside was actually 0.027". I suspect the 130# on there now is the same wire size. I too noted that McMaster's price is way too high, but their prices on "wire rope" (bare, uninsulated control lines) are pretty reasonable.
Chuck

Chuck,

Wow  y1  Now that is what I call big time help.  If the breadboard cluge of my system works this looks like the place to get a reasonable quantity at a reasonable price to get started.

Thanks!!!
John Rist
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2006, 07:38:57 PM »
John, Leroy
The prices for U/Tronics Controls at present are:
Single Channel (for 2 wires) $20.00 with slide pot
Dual Channel (for 3 wires)  $32.00 with 2 slide pots
Multi Channel system (for 2 wire) setup for 4 channels $80.00,  Encoder and Decoder
Additional channels up to 7 total $5.00 each additional channel
Slide pots $5.00 each
Shipping charge $3.00 per order
Clancy
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U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.

Offline Leroy Heikes

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2006, 06:36:26 AM »
John;
    How is your system comming along. Have you built up a prototype yet? I can't wait to see pictures of your Eindecker in flight.

Leroy

Offline John Rist

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2006, 08:54:47 PM »
John;
    How is your system comming along. Have you built up a prototype yet? I can't wait to see pictures of your Eindecker in flight.

Leroy

To answer Leroy’s  It is coming along.  The breadboard worked and I am waiting on the PCB’s.  Even after I get it all working it will take some doing to get the Eindecker ready for its first flight.  The up-down control will be a hybrid, half mechanical – half electronic.  The two-wire flight system will operate a bell crank like most U-control models.  But the bell crank will operate a servo driver that will operate the elevator servo.  The reason for this is that it is truly a converted RC with a servo driven elevator.  It would be a bear to convert any other way.

There are some threads about cost.  At this point in time I have little idea as to the cost.  If  (big if) I do sell the system I plan to put it out as complete package.  Handle, lines, electronics and connectors.  All that will be missing is batteries (1 9V and 4 AA), and servos.  In the low volume the units will be produced I can not buy these for less than you could.   But my plan it make the system plug and play for the modelers who don’t have the background to deal with solder joints.

Attached is a picture of the control head mounted on a Tom Morris Handle.

Bottom line is I am several months away from the Eindecker’s first flight.  And it all depends on if she survives the first flight.  But if it was easy I could just watch TV instead.
John Rist
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2006, 02:48:31 PM »
Well the PCBs are in and built. It all seems to be solid as a rock.  I am now in the process of converting the Eindecker to UC.  y1
John Rist
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Offline Leroy Heikes

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2006, 04:52:48 AM »
John;
    That is great news. I'm looking forward to hearing about the Eindeckers first flight.   AP^

Leroy

Offline victorss

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2006, 03:29:43 AM »
Bill Young -- Bill Young Designs & Hobby 2708 N. 4th St, Flagstaff, AZ 86004 -- sells a five channel -- two channels are on/off -- electronic system for $130.00. The encoder is built into a C/L handle and has a throttle idle set and servo reversing functions. I have used one for about four or so years and it works well. I fly electric C/L scale and it works great with motor controllers.

Offline Leroy Heikes

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2006, 05:28:22 AM »
I also have a Bill Young handle. It is  a nice handle. excellent feel to it. Unfortunately the system stooped working.  %^ I have to send it back to Bill to get fixed. '' '' ''

Leroy

Offline Myron Firmin

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2019, 04:09:33 PM »
Does a schematic or plans of a Bill Young C/L handle exist?
Myron Firmin
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Electronic Controll
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2019, 08:53:02 AM »
Grant Heistand and I were working with Bill Young when he developed his 3 and 6 channel CL handles. I never saw a electronic schematic, we only tested the units themselves with our flight testing. Grant and I would give feed back to Bill on what we thought should be changed or improved. Great Handle!

It would be possible to take the same layout and put a current modern 2.4 Ghz boards and switches in the handle of the same design. The one feature that I use a lot in the modern transmitters are:

Model Memory
End point adjustment
Servo reversing
Servo speed

Tactic had a 2 channel system that had a trigger and wheel for the 2nd channel. At one point I considered taking those parts and putting those into a handle but never finished that project since I am still flying with the transmitter on my belt (with metal clip). That transmitter has model memory and flies all of my models. each model has it's own set of lines but they all use the same transmitter.

Fred
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