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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Scale Models => Topic started by: Glenn Quarles on December 24, 2014, 06:37:02 AM
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Hi friends, I'm new around here and I can't find any info on which size electric set ups (if any) are legal in 1/2A scale. Any guidance would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Glenn
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The terms "Electric" and "1/2A" are two different animals.
"Half-A" refers to I.C. engines, and should not be confused with electric power (which, IMHO, has no business in 1/2A Scale events).
Just sayin'....
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Come on Mike, just admit you don't like electric. In reality get ahold of Eric at RSM Dist. and he can help you.
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Hi guys, thanks for the replys. Yes I am very familiar with the difference between the nitro engines and electric motors...what I was looking for is whether or not there is a published 1/2A equivalent electric setup that can be used in scale contests. For example if I showed up with a typical size 1/2A airplane running a 2s electric motor turning a 6" dia prop could I enter it in 1/2A?
Thanks!
Glenn
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Glenn, the problem in 1/2A scale is electic to an IC power plant is not a level playing field. 1/2A IC engine is a challenge at best to keep running and some people do very well with them. But an electric power plant is, switch on and fly, no problems. Maybe somewhere down the road if electric 1/2A scale becomes more popular it might become an event. It is not practical to have an event for every idea that comes along. The Nats and club contest could not afford to offer events that are not well attended. Sorry.
Blessings
Allen
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Thanks Allen! So it sounds like there is no formal electric equivalent. I was curious because I haven't seen any separation between IC and electric in any other events.
Glenn
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the other class's are not set up by engine size
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the other class's are not set up by engine size
Got ya, thanks for the help guys!
Glenn
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What's the deal with this electric motor in 1/2A scale issue. The official AMA rules don't appear to exclude electric motors, which would drastically alter 1/2A, eliminating the challenges of operating these little devils. Does anyone have clarification on this?
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What's the deal with this electric motor in 1/2A scale issue. The official AMA rules don't appear to exclude electric motors, which would drastically alter 1/2A, eliminating the challenges of operating these little devils. Does anyone have clarification on this?
2015-2016 Scale Rule Para. 5.5 specifies what is considered 1/2A.
5.5 ½ A Engines/Motors. individual engine displacement volume shall not exceed .061 cubic inch or 1 cc. Motor power must be in the range of ½ A engines.
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So, this is stating that electrics are allowed as long as they are of similar power? It still doesn't appear to clearly exclude electrics from 1/2A scale.
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So, this is stating that electrics are allowed as long as they are of similar power? It still doesn't appear to clearly exclude electrics from 1/2A scale.
I knew you were going to try to make that point.
It's an unfortunate issue of semantics. I do not interpret "motor" to mean "electric motor". "Engine" and "Motor" are synonymous in common usage, irrespective of their accepted engineering meanings. So far as I could find, there is no definition of terms in the Competition Regulations that would apply.
1/2 A Scale was created as a class to give people the opportunity to see what sort of models could be built using simple .020 - .061 glow ( or diesel) power. The result has been pretty impressive. The essence of the class is the engine / motor. Electric does not fit.
There are four other scale classes that are open to electric power; Fun, Profile, Sport, & Authentic. There is nothing to say that a model of similar size to a 1/2 A powered by an electric motor (s) could not be flown in one of those classes and be competitive.
Controline General Rule Para. 11 further specifies class engine sizes.
11. Nominal Classification of Control Line Models. Models powered by reciprocating engine(s) are classified by total piston displacement of engine(s) as follows. Class ½A 0000—.0504 cubic inch Class A 0505—.1525 cubic inch Class B 1526—.3051 cubic inch Class C 3052—.4028 cubic inch Class D 4029—.6500 cubic inch Jet Internal cross-sectional area of the tail pipe(s) at the point of minimum cross-section shall not be greater than 1.25 square inches. Turbine The Maximum static Thrust to Weight ratio shall be .9 (dry).
When the description "1/2A" is used to define a class it clearly means a reciprocating engine/motor not an electric motor.
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I'm with you on this. I initiated the 1/2A scale event at the Milwaukee Circlemasters contest. I do not want to see electrics involved with 1/2A scale. I'm just trying to deflect, in advance, the protests of the guys who are going to attempt interpreting the rules to fly their electrics in competition. It is unfortunate that the rules were worded in a way that makes it unclear. I would much prefer to use AMA rules now that we have them.
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I need something that officially states, "Thou shalt not use electric motors in 1/2A scale", or there is still some wiggle room here for guys who will contend that the rules don't specifically exclude electrics.
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That's cool.
The Dayton Buzzin' Buzzards will be hosting a Scale contest in August. 1/2A will be interpreted to mean recips only.
I'm exploring what it will take to make that clear - quickly - in the AMA Competition Regulations as well.
Take care.
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All it takes is a proposal written and sent in to the scale rules board. They are listed in the Model Aviation magazine that some people refuse to read. But, to really control an event, a club should keep it local with clear concise rules.
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Bob, u saved me a lot of writing .there is 4 other class's that welcome Electric, leave 1/2 A alone
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Friends, I'm sorry to have started all this! I am an IC guy and have been flying .049's for many years. I just ran across a post somewhere that brought the electric question to mind so I asked. Maybe a good rules clarification will come out of this.
Glenn
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Glenn ,if not u than someone else will want to know until it is put in Black and White
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From 2007 thru 2014, the Tucson rules specifically stated "No Electrics" - being set for I.C. engines .010 thru .061 only.
Now that the contest is under new management, it is sincerely hoped that this will not change.
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I've never seen an electric motor that displaces .061 cubic inches. Unless one can measure the cumbustion's swept area in that electric motor, I'd say that it's not legal. All the black and white one needs.
Chris...
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Gentlemen; AMA rules states 1/2A scale as a IC .061 max engine size event only, period.
If someone wants to have something different at their contest, go for it. It just wont be AMA legal. (and you probably wont have to many entries) n~
Blessings
Allen
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I sort of brought this discussion up with our club recently. The club has introduced a proposal for a 1/2a twin engine profile scale competition. I totally agree that 1/2a and small electric aircraft are two distinct and separate classes that cannot be mixed. A problem with electric is the lack of a clear and field measurable definition of 'small electric'. A simple suggestion would be to limit the electric motors to a maximum weight of 1oz and powered by no more than 12v. There is only so much copper, iron and rare earth magnetic material that can be stuffed into a 1 oz package. Another problem with electric is that it will require the development of a different scoring rubric. The skill required to get consistent performance from a small glow engine is just not there.
Until there is enough competitors for a separate class (if ever) I have asked the club that I be allowed to enter the competition with my small electric and be judged & scored but be exempt from the final standings and any awards. That allows me to come out and join the fun, because that's what all of us are really interested in.
Paul
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1/2a scale is a great event, pilots build the most odd and usual models I have ever seen. The challenge is to get the engines to run so that you can get the 10 level laps in. Sounds easy but getting a model that small to fly well and keep the engines running is harder than it looks.
There is no cubic inch displacement limit you can put on a electric motor, battery or system when you fly electric power, all you can do is limit the voltage to a 2S or some similar size battery. That is why the CL scale rules only limit the voltage to a max value and you can use any motor. Of course these rules for electric power in CL scale do not apply to 1/2a scale, they only can be used for profile, sport, team and authentic scale.
Our club here in St Louis has 1/2a scale during our 2 day contest in Sept, and electric power will not be allowed in 1/2a scale (per AMA rules)
Fred Cronenwett
https://lafayetteesquadrillecl.wordpress.com/lafayette-esquadrille-cl/control-line-contest-st-louis/control-line-stunt-pampa-scale-broken-arrow-st-louis/
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Two things:
First: I am completely converted to electric and I am here to tell you that 1/2 A sized electric is NOTHING like a 1/2A glow and the two should never mix in a small scale model class.
Second: Its very hard to control things like battery size & current draw to limit the electric power system - by that I mean hard to administrate. The best method I have seen is the "Renkar Rule" that Jim Renkar used at his 1/2A stunt contest. Rather than getting hung up over .049 versus .051 or .061, or electric, he simply limited everyone to a 6" prop. Applying that approach to a scale class would result in a 1/2A SIZED model that will be fairly representative of a very good 1/2A glow powered model.
I know, the LAST thing we need is ANOTHER event. However, I have always like 1/2A sized airplanes, and the idea of a SEPARATE event for small electric models would appeal to me. I would call it something like "Six Inch Electric Scale" and go from there...? Think about it, these could be flown indoors in the winter on a HS basketball court or church auditorium too.
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Dennis, I like what you say here. You are right, we don't need a nether event. I do like the idea of flying Controline in a gym in the winter time. Something to think about in the near futher. Tell big Art I said hi.
Blessings
Allen
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From 2007 thru 2014, the Tucson rules specifically stated "No Electrics" - being set for I.C. engines .010 thru .061 only.
Now that the contest is under new management, it is sincerely hoped that this will not change.
This is an update from the "new management":
The 9th Tucson 1cc Multi-Engine CL Scale Contest is now scheduled for October 10-11, 2015. Our Tucson rules for this contest have been altered slightly to allow full scale fuselage and nacelles. (It is no longer a profile only contest. Last year, scale nacelles were allowed -rationale for allowing scale nacelles is available on request.) The rules/scoring is set up such that a profile can still be competitive.
This contest is still for models only powered with internal combustion engines with a maximum displacement for each engine of 1cc (0.061 cu in).
Rules are provided in the Events section below and are available on the Cholla Chppers website at
http://www.ccmaconline.org/halfa-multiengine-profilescale.htm
Please note the proxy entries are allowed. There is a new Pilot's Choice perpetual award being initiated this year. Also, there is a new perpetual Slab Award being initiated. Explanation of the Slab Award can be found in the rules. This is not a separate event, but any model in in either of our two scale categories that comply with the Slab definition is eligible.
Keith
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Electric motors !!!
What a useless pain in the ass.
Just go out and create your own organization.