Author Topic: Leadout guide how to (Read 12038 times)

Fred Cronenwett · « **on:** November 04, 2015, 04:47:05 PM »

this is how I use my Leadout guides at the wingtip of the models

The wire loop has a slot that allows the flying lines to be slid up into guide, rotated 90 degrees

Fred

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2015, 04:48:29 PM »

After the wire is rotated into the right direction it is passing thru the guide

bob whitney · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2015, 05:42:40 PM »

looks like it is removable for scale presentation. i hate plywood guides and use about .048 thos aluminum from ACE for my permanent guides

Avaiojet · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2015, 06:04:55 PM »

Fred,

Nice clean installation.

What holds the wire in place? I see what looks like pop rivets heads that the wire is placed into?

Have you Posted a photo of the model?

Charles

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2015, 06:54:15 PM »

Fred ... got your message in the other thread. Thanks!!!

This guide looks very simple and clean. I was thinking of using ply or aluminum but it also means i have to cut into the wing. Would rather not ....

As above, it looks like the wires are in a rivet, or is that a really nicely placed dab of epoxy? Can you go into detail on how the wire is securely attached? I like this ....

Thanks, Larry

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2015, 07:15:53 PM »

Quote from: bob whitney on November 04, 2015, 05:42:40 PM

looks like it is removable for scale presentation. i hate plywood guides and use about .048 thos aluminum from ACE for my permanent guides

Bob, It looks we'll have some fun in Fun Scale the next time we get together. I was really kicking myself for not bringing my P-40 to MCRC Southeast Stunt and Fun last weekend. The rules scared me away ... but turns out to be pretty simple. I liked the whole layout and enjoyed watching you fly your throttled plane.

I'm motivated ....

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2015, 07:37:34 PM »

I have some plywood in the wing and the wire leadout guide is glued into the wing. drilled two holes in to the wing and just glued in place.

With a little more effort I could make it removable but it is permanent on this model. The model was built from the Great Planes RV-4 kit with the 56" span, has an E-32 electric motor and flaps. Tactic 650 2.4 Ghz is used for the throttle and flaps.

Fred

Avaiojet · « **Reply #7 on:** November 05, 2015, 03:57:28 AM »

Fred,

Really nice model.

I'm wondering if there's a benefit to having the catch wire for the leadouts adjustable? The model does have to "taxi" for one lap, correct?

So I'm guessing there would be a benefit if it were adjustable for the purpose of the taxi? Flight also possibly?

I'm interested because I have this Gee Bee Z I built for R/C. I'm thinking of making the changes necessary for CL scale.

And, as you can see, (I hope you don't mind the posting of the photo) the leadouts may have to come out of the fuselage as your model.

I say "may" because there's plenty of material below the wing on the Gee Bee Z. That material, i.e., spats, large wheels and all, could work as a benefit and "possibly" the leadouts could be put in the wing which currently is removable. Sure, I would like to have the leadouts and bellcrank in the wing if at all possible.

You know scale well, could this model be a contender?

Charles

bob whitney · « **Reply #8 on:** November 05, 2015, 10:03:45 AM »

Charles, we missed u at the Stunt and Funlast weekend

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2015, 10:17:33 AM »

If you can put the bellcrank in the wing and route the leadouts thru the wing that would be the cleanest installation, but with the model built that might be difficult

Does the wing come off of the Gee Bee? If so the leadouts above the wing would work just fine. There would only be the two leadouts coming out thru the fuselage side

If the model details and paint job matches the documentation then it would do well. Might also consider a dummy engine due to the open radial cowl.

Fred

Michael Boucher · « **Reply #10 on:** November 05, 2015, 03:30:10 PM »

Hi Fred, How did you install the lead outs on your B-29 model? Thanks

Avaiojet · « **Reply #11 on:** November 05, 2015, 05:02:04 PM »

Fred,

You cannot see the topside of the wing in that photo, it's not covered yet.

Maybe I should hang the model from the wingtip and see where she goes?

I've read that some do this. The tell for Vertical CG?

I would really like to get this model going, it's been framed longer than I am old. Well, almost.

There are a few contests near me where I may be treated fairly.

"Gotta love it when a plane comes together."

Anyway, with guys using 2.4 TX and RX, I would have to really take a good look at contest requirements.

Moving ailerons and throttle is just about it. the Gee Bee Z didn't have flaps or retracts.

Possibly put me at a disadventage right out of the gate?

Charles

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2015, 06:39:05 PM »

With throttle only you still have the ability to fly the 6 options for CL scale competition. Most judges won't give you points for moving ailerons because it's not a flight option.

Hanging the model will tell you where the line wants to be to keep the vertical CG, but I have seen models like his with the lines above the wing and fly just fine.

Do yourself a favor and gather documention before you paint the model. assemble the 3-view and photographs then paint the model to match the photographs.

Fred

Avaiojet · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2015, 07:07:45 AM »

Fred,

I have a tremendous amount of documention for all the Gee Bee's. I've been making graphics for them for a good number of years.

I've also built a few others at 72" and 90" in span. One I actually finished and flew. I know, hard to believe but true.

I still have the 72" which could be a posibility also but could use a redo.

I did the graphics for this award winning Gee Bee Z model years ago for a modeler in Maryland.

Here's the 72" R/C Gee Bee I built a lifetime ago. It's been repaired and is a bit heavy.

I could do scale.

Charles

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2015, 08:47:42 AM »

Fred -- I really like the adjustable leadout guide as described in your great write up found here ....

https://lafayetteesquadrillecl.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/control-line-scale-modeling.pdf

There are also alot of small tidbits of information that I had been questioning in my mind, and were answered ... specifically for tail draggers and their tail wheels and rudders.

Thanks alot, Larry

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2015, 05:18:57 PM »

I guess I can put this here .....

To me, it doesn't look bad for my first attempt. Maybe some improvements to the connectors, but I do need to get under the bellcrank easily. Theres going to be radio equipment under it. Theres a pushrod guide already installed for the elevator (out of picture) .... it really helps in keeping the rod aligned without bending when forcing the cheap stiff elevator hinges. Maybe a future project to fix that ....

I guess I'm ready to install the leadouts .... the pictures I've found have really helped in assembling all this. Having a removable bellcrank platform is great and simplified alot of things.

Ran the motor a few days ago .... first time since 2009 ..... purred like a kitten,

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2015, 05:36:01 PM »

I have also used the removable bellcrank mount. The nice part with 2.4 Ghz is that everything else can stay the same and just control the elevator with the bellcrank.

Very nice installation!

Fred

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2015, 06:11:38 PM »

Thanks Fred!

I'm trying real hard to plan things way ahead of time ... your articles have been a tremendous help. The C/L of the bellcrank is only 3/4" behind the CG ... I couldn't get it 1" because a plywood former of the fuse is in the way and I didn't want to cut into it. As it is, I had to add pieces of birchwood to the fuse side to stiffen it up.

I still need a radio .... hoping a couple swap meets over the next 2 weeks will yield a cheap 6-channel, otherwise I'll get the 50.00 Turnigy @ Hobbyking. Theres a car radio installled in it now .... but its not going to work out. I'm gonna need rudder on rollout/take off, and I want a 3-position flap switch. Of course ... end point adjustments will simplify the throttle.

Thats all a couple weeks away tho .... gotta start planning for the line guides. My wife is as excited about this project as I am .... go figure. LOL

Heres a couple pics when I first got it in Jan 2008 .... there isn't even a pilot in the cockpit. Look forward to seeing it on the end of a set of lines.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2015, 09:23:12 PM »

Larry,

Glad you found the articles and information helpful to get the model airborne. If you can send me some High resolution digital pictures I can try to fit them into the column.

Enjoy!
Fred

Avaiojet · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2015, 10:17:01 PM »

Fred,

I see from the photo of your model, the fuselage side where the leadouts exit, seems they exit through tiny holes?

You would think notches would be needed because of the bellcrank movement?

Are you using one of those secrete round bellcranks?

If so, I want one.

A drawing could work also.

Charles

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2015, 04:29:59 AM »

Fred -- I'm usually pretty good about photo-documenting my little projects. I'll send you some. Last night, I went looking for my red 3-blade spinner ... I guess it grew legs and walked off. Internet search revealed nothing in 2.75" .... hoping the upcoming swap meets will get me lucky.

Charles --- I'm real new at this scale stuff ... but it seems to me that the leadout exits at the fuse can be tiny because theres not alot of throw movement from the bellcrank when flying. I know I wont be trying to stunt the P-51 ... so how much movement do I need? I expect 10-15 degrees at most. Whats a stunt ship .... 30degree movement on hard corners? I've got these 3/8" ID chromed eyelets I plan to use to dress up the exit holes ... but I dont think they have to be even that big.

Maybe I'm wrong ....

Avaiojet · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2015, 08:59:24 AM »

Larry,

Nice Stang!

I've spent some time up in Lakeland. I had a Lake LA4-200T for a number of years.

There's a seaplane base there and a filght school.

Anyway,

Yes eyelets could be the ticket.

I'm thinking of threaded pushrod with "fred's loop," I just tagged it, at the top. Soldered washer that acts as a "stop" on top of the eyelet.

This allows for removal, AND others could be made with Fred's loop in different places for adjustment.

Kinda like a slider but not.

Adjustments are a good thing.

A possibility?

Charles

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2015, 10:20:21 AM »

Alittle more work completed ...

Spectrum DX7 I got at a swap meet yesterday is all installed and bench programmed.

Leadouts are done and terminated. Receiver and battery are under the bellcrank packed in foam.

Also did alittle work on the tailwheel to make it rigged .... might have to revisit this tho ...

Couple pics ....

Avaiojet · « **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2015, 10:31:49 AM »

Larry,

Nice work.

I do my ends like that, but your's are tighter.

Charles

john e. holliday · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2015, 10:41:39 AM »

I quit using crimps like that years ago after losing a couple of planes.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 16, 2015, 11:04:37 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on November 16, 2015, 10:41:39 AM

I quit using crimps like that years ago after losing a couple of planes.

Bellcrank, leadouts, and lines are all done this way ... have never had a failure of a crimp I've made.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #26 on:** November 16, 2015, 12:52:04 PM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on November 16, 2015, 11:04:37 AM

Bellcrank, leadouts, and lines are all done this way ... have never had a failure of a crimp I've made.

Larry,

I can say exactly the same thing.

They are not pretty to look at, but crimped ends are quick and work.

Charles

john e. holliday · « **Reply #27 on:** November 16, 2015, 09:44:42 PM »

Some how the post I made about lines and lead outs wound up in the paint and finishing section. Don't know to move it.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #28 on:** November 16, 2015, 10:41:27 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on November 16, 2015, 09:44:42 PM

Some how the post I made about lines and lead outs wound up in the paint and finishing section. Don't know to move it.

John,

Just ask any Moderator to move it over here. I saw that Post. Nice photos! Nice work!

Charles

john e. holliday · « **Reply #29 on:** November 17, 2015, 08:23:30 AM »

Its been done thanks to Sparky. It was late when I posted.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #30 on:** November 17, 2015, 06:37:18 PM »

Line guide is done. Thanks for all your help Fred, and the great documents/videos you've provided.

I don't see any reason why I can't finish up and fly it this weekend. I'll I gotta do is double check the CG .... hang it from the ceiling .... and throw the lines and handle on.

I hope I got things right .... LOL

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #31 on:** November 17, 2015, 06:49:56 PM »

that is really cool. Looks great and good luck flying the model. Test flights always scare me to this day, once I know I have enough line tension during a taxi lap and the CG is in the right spot it's time to get it flown.

Glad you found the information helpful, enjoy!

Fred

Avaiojet · « **Reply #32 on:** November 17, 2015, 07:30:20 PM »

Larry,

You only have one "fred's Loop." Do you put both lines in it?

One lead out must be longer than the other?

Or am I missing something.

I'll have two "Fred's Loops." I already drilled the holes for the eyelets.

I have to pick up a plumber's torch tomorrow to heat the wire for the loop.

Nice Stang!

Charles

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 17, 2015, 08:49:44 PM »

Yup, I saw a couple of Fred's articles and they only had the one loop on the adjustable line guide.

No difference in line length, but if that setup is good for them .... its way good for me.

I didn't even heat the wire to bend it .... I just used a pair of needle nose pliers. Just make sure your always bending the long side of the wire .... if it gets too short, it won't bend easy enough. The wire I chose isn't very soft. I started with the loop and then went from there ... all one piece. Whats in the pic is my second attempt. 1st attempt the wires didn't meet up correctly. I did use a butane torch to silver solder the two ends together. Then filed excess, and cleaned it all up.

Mental note ..... I forgot about the tip weight ..... Mental note .... don't forget .... LOL

john e. holliday · « **Reply #34 on:** November 17, 2015, 10:55:28 PM »

Very neat installation.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #35 on:** November 18, 2015, 05:25:54 AM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on November 17, 2015, 08:49:44 PM

Yup, I saw a couple of Fred's articles and they only had the one loop on the adjustable line guide.

No difference in line length, but if that setup is good for them .... its way good for me.

I didn't even heat the wire to bend it .... I just used a pair of needle nose pliers. Just make sure your always bending the long side of the wire .... if it gets too short, it won't bend easy enough. The wire I chose isn't very soft. I started with the loop and then went from there ... all one piece. Whats in the pic is my second attempt. 1st attempt the wires didn't meet up correctly. I did use a butane torch to silver solder the two ends together. Then filed excess, and cleaned it all up.

Mental note ..... I forgot about the tip weight ..... Mental note .... don't forget .... LOL

Larry,

Yes, the adjustment ends are at the fuselage, I don't know what I was thinking. Just clean lines go through the Fred's Loop.

I might try to make mine today and will use a plumbers torch to heat things up.

Your's are adjustible. Did you find you needed adjustments?

Nice work BTW.

Charles

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #36 on:** November 18, 2015, 05:36:23 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on November 18, 2015, 05:25:54 AM

Your's are adjustible. Did you find you needed adjustments?

Nice work BTW.

Charles

I don't know .... find out when I fly it!!! LOL!

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 20, 2015, 06:48:32 PM »

Fred --- First and foremost ... I can't tell you how much I appreciate the information you've put out there to help a guy like me finally make an idea to convert an RC airplane to control line a reality. I've looked at my P-51 for a long time ... but never had the knowledge to pull off the conversion to fly in a circle.

Folks ..... All the info I gathered was spot on in how to do this, and because of mostly all of Fred's work to put info out there ... I had a perfect maiden flight this afternoon .... I am STOKED!!

I'm really glad I had the rudder on a servo ..... it was really the only tricky part of getting the plane in the air. It definitely wanted to come in on me during roll out. Once the tailwheel was up and alittle more speed ... I didn't need the rudder at all.

Plenty of line tension ... and a nearby RC pilot said that the wings were perfectly level and it looked great! I did touch and goes ..... some slow flapped laps .... 1 or 2 fast laps .... landings both flapped and non .... taxi's .....

It was absolutely perfect. Gonna try decreasing the line tension tho ..... pulls like a truck

I flew 4 times .... 10-12 minutes each ....

I cannot wait to get out there again this weekend ....SOOOOO much fun! I hope to have someone shoot a video soon ....

Fred .... you da man ....

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #38 on:** November 21, 2015, 06:01:02 AM »

I am really glad everything worked and you enjoyed it. the model looks great...Awesome job. That was the goal of the article was to get the information out there on how to make this happen.

Enjoy!

Fred

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 21, 2015, 08:51:36 PM »

While at a swap meet today .... I was fortunate enough to get in several flights of the P-51 at the host's circle.

Another C/L pilot was very nice in grabbing my camera and offering to video a flight.

Hope you enjoy!!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #40 on:** November 23, 2015, 11:43:36 AM »

I like it.

Mike Lauerman · « **Reply #41 on:** February 04, 2016, 04:18:10 PM »

Larry... Exactly what P51 kit is that? (also, wingspan please?) Is it still available? Couldn't find a suitable R/C Mustang kit in Tower's catalog.
Would love a nice scale like C/L conversion flier such as yours.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #42 on:** February 04, 2016, 04:30:26 PM »

this P-51 kit has a 57" span and would make a great conversion. I have the RV-4 kit from Great Planes converted to CL scale

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LWA125&P=SM

Fred

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 05, 2016, 01:26:59 PM »

Quote from: Mike Lauerman on February 04, 2016, 04:18:10 PM

Larry... Exactly what P51 kit is that? (also, wingspan please?) Is it still available? Couldn't find a suitable R/C Mustang kit in Tower's catalog.
Would love a nice scale like C/L conversion flier such as yours.

Hi Mike -- Mine is the H9 P-51 PTS. They stopped making it quite awhile ago. It came all ready to go .... radio and everything.

It's really a great flier and I've enjoyed it immensely since I converted it.

I'm hoping the weather holds out for the Spring Tune-Up down in Indiantown, FL in March. Mr. Brodak is supposed to be there to judge, and I have a great feeling that there will be an awesome turnout for Fun Scale. I need to practice tho ... I've got a blank score sheet and I think I know my 6 options and what order. I need help fine tuning to make sure I'll be doing it correctly.

Will be lots of fun ...