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  • November 18, 2017, 03:17:02 AM

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Author Topic: Profile vs. simple vs. good  (Read 18155 times)

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #100 on: January 28, 2017, 10:04:35 AM »
I now sit here wondering why all this nit picking for an event that was a local event to start and has never become an official AMA event.   ???

I've been on internal corporate engineering standards committees.  Things that really matter -- things that keep circuit boards from bursting into flame, or software from locking up before it even has a chance to blink a light -- those things get agreed on immediately.  Things that are just a matter of style, like how you indent your software code or whether you line up your circuit elements neatly on a schematic -- those things get argued over endlessly.
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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2017, 10:59:56 AM »
It's Winter, John. 
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #102 on: January 28, 2017, 01:52:28 PM »
It's Winter, John. 

lol that right there wins the internet today LOL
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline phil c

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2017, 08:36:02 PM »
If you buried a 1/16 or 1/32in. carbon strip from the stab to a motor mount internally with almost any other fuselage structure I suspect it would supply all the stiffness needed for good performance.  I base this on having built quite a few 3/4in full length fuses with merely 1/16 balsa sides and a foam core.  If you make a bit taller, say six inches or so, it is already very stiff.  Adding a spine could only make it better.  Add some carbon tissue on the outside for additional strength and a good paint base.  The spine doesn't have to be on the outside, although that is the simplest way.  Maybe corrugated sides?
phil Cartier

Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #104 on: April 19, 2017, 12:44:30 AM »
Many Profile events I've seen were won by ARF or ARC P40s.

Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #105 on: April 19, 2017, 02:21:47 AM »
Different strategies can reduce tail twist. Take your pick. A reliable engine run can be more tricky. My most recent profile adventure needed bubble wrap to settle in.


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Offline RogerGreene

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #106 on: August 25, 2017, 08:44:35 PM »
What is the point of all this discussion anyway.
The profile plane was first meant for a person to learn to fly the pattern then take that plane to a local contest and compete.
This is what Samantha Hines did.

Leave the profile class alone......
Fly Stunt <><
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90% of how you react to it....

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #107 on: August 26, 2017, 09:36:53 PM »
What is seen in profile or silhouette is limited in thickness - note that flap webs are never 'seen' in profile or silhouette.

In other words if there is no defined outline when viewed from the pitch axis then it shouldn't be included in the profile rule.

My interpretation only. :)

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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #108 on: August 27, 2017, 04:53:30 PM »
The intent of Profile Stunt is to provide one more set of prizes to the same people who win F2B, PAMPA Expert, N-30, Classic and OTS.

Don't cha know that?
Paul Smith

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #109 on: August 27, 2017, 06:00:21 PM »
So who needs more "DUST" catchers anyway?  n~

Just my 2 cents worth.

Jerry


PS: Hey Sparky, why do I have to keep logging into this site anyway? Pi$$es me off...

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #110 on: November 04, 2017, 03:04:34 PM »
    In my memory of the origins of the event, it was originally called the P-40 event, for profile model with a .40 engine size limit. This goes all the way back, I think, to when the OS.40 FP came on the market and the thought was that with the availability then of some good off the shelf engines like the FP.40, FP.35, Fox.35, OS .35s and such, the neophyte stunt flyer could compete on a some what more level playing field if the models were simple profile models. I think it was the first iteration at the SIG contests where the 10 point no flap bonus was added, again helping the rookie pilot by taking the added complexity of flaps out of the picture. That was the reason Mike Pratt designed the Primary Force with no flaps. Maybe Mikey will see this and jump in with his memories of it as he was at SIG at that time still I believe. The profile aspect comes in because there are countless profiles kits and plans in circulation, and a simple 1/2" balsa profile fuselage is pretty simple and quick to build. Also the challenge of getting a sidewinder mounted engine is part of the plan. No Rabe style noses with upright or inverted engines allowed and no builder of the model rule so no appearance points. Our club here in St. Louis has pretty much followed what we call the SIG rules like this. Over the years, local clubs have added there own modifications starting with allowing any size engine. At our last club meeting, we voted on another local rule change adding a 10 point penalty for electric models. We discussed it seriously for a while before making the change. Getting an engine to run on it's size is part of the original intent of that event. Electric motors have no specific "side" so they do have an advantage in our opinion, and depending on battery, can make more power that a typical .40. So to off set that, we added the penalty for electric to level things out a bit. We'll see how that is received. I think we have P-40 at our February contest and that will be the first indicator, but depending on weather, we may not have any out of town entrants. I think the event is fine just the way it is. It's just that now that there is some new blood coming into the hobby and they are not aware of the history, the question gets asked. Just adding my thoughts to the discussion.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee


Dan has it right!  The P 40 event was for the many profile models that were (still) on the market.  It was and is a fun to fly event where everyone is welcome.  The 40 engine size was put in there to keep it simple and I has stayed that way.  If you want to add a class for simple stunt designs then go for it!  I think most of the contests in the Midwest still use the same basic rules and are not questioned.  If I remember correctly some guy from up there wasn't happy because he had a twister with a LA 46 and someone told him he couldn't fly it, Hmmm!

Their is always room for another event if they want to man & run it.  The more planes I can bring to a contest and fly the better in my book, but then again, I like to build new stuff and fly.  If you want a simple class, I'll built something and have a blast with it.

Mikey

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #111 on: November 05, 2017, 03:31:36 PM »
None of my business but there is a parallel thread about profile fuz construction in building techniques.. L

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #112 on: November 06, 2017, 12:02:49 PM »
The intent of Profile Stunt is to provide one more set of prizes to the same people who win F2B, PAMPA Expert, N-30, Classic and OTS.

Don't cha know that?

   Which explains why all the supposed "hot-shots" rarely enter it, right?   Honestly, with all the things you don't see or understand about stunt contests, I have to ask - do you *ever* go to any big stunt contests?  Do you fail to see what is going on, or are you just taking shots at everyone from your basement?

     I intentionally avoid these fun-fly events, not because I am too important, but because I *don't* want to be seen beating up on people just for a trophy. Most of the competitors put in as much or more effort into their airplanes as I ever to,  and me showing up and wrecking their competition just to serve my own ego is something I won't do. The only time I do it is if there is abnormally low entry, in which case I can offset some of the effort the organizers put in.

     I used to do it all the time, particularly in Classic. Show up, someone would talk me into entering a few minutes before it starts or even after it starts, I would take off with a completely unfamiliar airplane, do a few warm-up maneuvers, then win by 20 points. One day I did that and realized that I had spent the entire morning the day before helping a competitor get his engine running for classic. Me entering it and winning kicked him from 3rd to 4th, out of the trophies. Since then I have never done that again.

     I routinely fly Stunt 25 only as a support to the event, which I think could be awesome and open up the creativity since you basically have only one or two legitimate and known-good engines, so (if they leave them alone) the engine is a closed topic. It hasn't worked out that way, yet, with the same old airplanes showing up time after time, but I hold out hope.

    Brett
   

Offline Target

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #113 on: November 06, 2017, 01:34:35 PM »
But at least you helped him get his engine running correctly; I'm sure he was thankful for that.
It's great that you're thoughtful about these things Brett. Don't beat yourself up if you can't help everyone be a more competitive contest pilot.
Regards,
Chris

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Offline Trostle

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #114 on: November 06, 2017, 01:40:00 PM »
   

     I routinely fly Stunt 25 only as a support to the event, which I think could be awesome and open up the creativity since you basically have only one or two legitimate and known-good engines, so (if they leave them alone) the engine is a closed topic. It hasn't worked out that way, yet, with the same old airplanes showing up time after time, but I hold out hope.

    Brett
   

What is this "Stunt 25" thing? 

I have an OS .25 VF

Keith.

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2017, 09:53:40 PM »
What is this "Stunt 25" thing? 

I have an OS .25 VF

Keith.

Hey,  Keith.  I've got two .25VFs.  Can I fly a twin?

Ted

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2017, 10:29:57 PM »
What is this "Stunt 25" thing? 

I have an OS .25 VF

Keith.

It's a Cali-for-ny-aye thing.  It hasn't even made it up north as far as Oregon.
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2017, 10:49:14 PM »
Hey,  Keith.  I've got two .25VFs.  Can I fly a twin?

Ted

Hi Ted,

Actually, I have a "few" of these things, the OS 25VF.  With yours and mine, maybe we could collaborate on a B-36.

However, nobody has yet to tell me what is this "25 Stunt" thing.

Keith

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Profile vs. simple vs. good
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2017, 11:05:32 PM »
Hi Ted,

Actually, I have a "few" of these things, the OS 25VF.  With yours and mine, maybe we could collaborate on a B-36.

However, nobody has yet to tell me what is this "25 Stunt" thing.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/'would-you-fly-stunt-25'-event-survey/msg225372/#msg225372

   It's not necessarily profile, but to date, I think all the entries have been profiles. I have many ambitious plans to other, full-fuse, airplanes, but ambitious plans are generally, too ambitious.

     Brett


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