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  • July 22, 2019, 02:48:47 AM

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Author Topic: OTS Rules  (Read 457 times)

Offline Steve Dwyer

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OTS Rules
« on: May 02, 2019, 08:42:12 AM »
Can someone either direct me or explain what the basis for the "K" factor is in the scoring and what the differences in judging scores are for intermediate and expert? Have looked around and can't seem to hit on this info.
Steve

Online Brett Buck

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Re: OTS Rules
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 10:22:21 AM »
Can someone either direct me or explain what the basis for the "K" factor is in the scoring and what the differences in judging scores are for intermediate and expert? Have looked around and can't seem to hit on this info.
Steve

      There is no such thing defined in any "official" way about skill classes in OTS. As to the K-factor, I have no idea where it came from originally, but it was one of those ideas that they experimented with at the time. It was discarded a very long time ago for subsequent rule sets since then (which was 70-ish years ago) in conventional stunt.

    Why the 1952 rule book is the way it is probably defies any clear and objective explanation, that was a heck of a long time ago. They are so insanely ambiguous in some ways that I think there is no objective way to determine what you are supposed to do. That's part of the charm I suppose. The John Miske/GSCB design eligibility rules (they invented it...) and the subsequent PAMPA rules (arrived at by a few arguing that the the GSCB rules restricted particular designs they thought should be eligible) are both "unofficial", as is the rest of the event. Various events use variable rules -  I know of at least 4 variants that are routinely used.

   One thing I do know, OTS rules have caused more hostile and vociferous arguments than just about any other topic, and they are still plenty of people around who are anxious to argue about them. Why this is necessary, for what amounts to a "fun fly" event, is beyond me, but just be prepared.


     Brett

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: OTS Rules
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 11:43:41 AM »
Brett,  Reading between lines "lol" you saying the OTS (Old People Stunt) group tends to draw more crotchety, argumentative old folks than other events?

So confirm my thinking if you will, Brodak publishes in their event schedule three classes for OTS.  We are asked to identify the class we wish to enter, intermediate, advanced or expert (all ages combined). I'm not familiar with PAMPA event rules, they do this so individuals are given an opportunity to fly with comparative skill levels and everyone will fly the same pattern?

Steve

Online Brett Buck

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Re: OTS Rules
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 02:53:49 PM »
Brett,  Reading between lines "lol" you saying the OTS (Old People Stunt) group tends to draw more crotchety, argumentative old folks than other events?

   On rare occasions, yes. They aren't all as youthful and optimistic as the rest of us youngsters.


Quote
So confirm my thinking if you will, Brodak publishes in their event schedule three classes for OTS.  We are asked to identify the class we wish to enter, intermediate, advanced or expert (all ages combined). I'm not familiar with PAMPA event rules, they do this so individuals are given an opportunity to fly with comparative skill levels and everyone will fly the same pattern?

  I guess so, I am not in any way involved with the Brodak contest, they make their own rules. I am sure that the CD can provide that, whoever that might be.

   PAMPA OTS does not have skill classes. Regular AMA/PAMPA (current stunt event) has either Beg/INT/ADV/EXP for almost all local/regional contests, and J/S/O at the NATs. But again, particularly for OTS, there are many variants, so contact the CD for any variations.

    Brett

Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: OTS Rules
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2019, 04:09:43 PM »
Attached are the PAMPA OTS rules and the 1952 AMA Precision Aerobatic rules.  The PAMPA rules flow down the 1952 AMA rules for the maneuver description.

These are the rules we use at VSC

Both documents are on the PAMPA website ( don't know if it's public or PAMPA members only)

Offline Joseph Patterson

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Re: OTS Rules
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2019, 09:26:38 AM »
 Thanks Jim for posting that info. We've went STRICTLY by these PAMPA / 1952 AMA rules at the NAT'S OTS event with very little misunderstanding or disagreement from competitors. I need to give credit to you Jim, as well as the expert advice from Keith Trostle who helped us so much with the rules as well as understanding maneuver descriptions/judging relating to entries/exits/elevations/sizes/etc. Keith answered a whole host of what if questions from Wes Eakins and myself. We also had great advice from Don Hutchinson, Jim Lynch, and Charlie Reeves. We have a mini-seminar with our OTS judges the day before the event so they are all on the same page in understanding and applying rules and good judging criteria.
  Our judges must be doing a good job because so many of the OTS competitors are complimentary of the quality of judging, and of the informative pilot's meeting given by Jim Lynch and Wes Eakin before the start of the OTS event.
  Can't say enough about the great people who gave us great advice and understanding of OTS. Their input has made the OTS event much better at the NAT'S.
       Doug

Offline Will Davis

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Re: OTS Rules
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 09:37:38 PM »
   On rare occasions, yes. They aren't all as youthful and optimistic as the rest of us youngsters.


  I guess so, I am not in any way involved with the Brodak contest, they make their own rules. I am sure that the CD can provide that, whoever that might be.

   PAMPA OTS does not have skill classes. Regular AMA/PAMPA (current stunt event) has either Beg/INT/ADV/EXP for almost all local/regional contests, and J/S/O at the NATs. But again, particularly for OTS, there are many variants, so contact the CD for any variations.

Brett

------------

Brett is correct on PAMPA and OTS skill classes, I am the C/D of the Brodak event , with Mark Weiss as the assistant C/D and event director for the Stunt events,

Skill classes in OTS are used to divide the field up onto three circles based on the flyers skill level. The normal process is to fly in the same skill class as used in PAMPA PA classes.  Some competitors fly in a higher class than they do in PA if they fly primarily in OTS events.

OTS is a fun event and we try to accomidate contestants at the Brodak fly in with this in mind .

If anyone has any question of this subject  feel free to contact me so we can discuss the OTS event .

Will Davis

Willddavis@msn.com

   
Will Davis
"Carolina Gang"

Online Brett Buck

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Re: OTS Rules
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2019, 11:13:36 PM »
Brett is correct on PAMPA and OTS skill classes, I am the C/D of the Brodak event , with Mark Weiss as the assistant C/D and event director for the Stunt events,

Skill classes in OTS are used to divide the field up onto three circles based on the flyers skill level. The normal process is to fly in the same skill class as used in PAMPA PA classes.  Some competitors fly in a higher class than they do in PA if they fly primarily in OTS events.

  Thanks for clarifying that. I am also glad that that it's being treated like a fun-fly, not a dire struggle for supremacy!

    Brett


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