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Author Topic: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?  (Read 913 times)

Online Peter Germann

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Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« on: August 02, 2017, 06:55:12 AM »
As from August 2nd 2017 on, the following subject is open for discussion on the Yahoo F2B Working Group:

Respecting the traditional “beautiful airplanes” aspect of control line aerobatics in FAI by introducing a perpetual FAI trophy for the builder & flyer of the most beautiful own-built F2B airplane participating in a World Championship.

Rationale  PG
The art of control-line aerobatics is a unique combination of design, building and flying skills. The degree of expertise required to participate in c/l stunt is both quite demanding and at the same time highly motivating for those being part of the community. In order to recognise and award the substantial efforts required, I suggest the implementation of a perpetual FAI “F2B Concours d’élégance” trophy:

•   To be awarded to registered W/C participants competing with own-built and officially processed models at F2B World Championships only.
•   One model per competitor may be registered for the “Concours d’élégance”
•   “Own-built” declared by self-declaration* at time of processing
•   Registered models participating to be marked with ”F2B Concours d’élégance / year” label
•   Registered models must be flown in at least two official rounds prior to static contest display.
•   Voted by a jury consisting of the members of the FAI Jury and of  the registered F2B competitors
•   Trophy and certificate to be awarded at the closing banquet
•   Trophy to be donated by the members of the F2B Working Group
•   Trophy handling, certificates and “Concours d’élégance” labels provided by CIAM, Lausanne

* “self-declaration” as per AMA Control Line Precision Aerobatics, 2016 issue, page 1, Article 2.1. Builder of Model. (Prior approval of AMA required.)

F2B Concours d’élégance” rule proposal to be drafted by the F2B Working Group and to be submitted to the F2 S/C for integration into the FAI Sporting Code

Discussing potential rule changes for the FAI F2B class the F2B Working Group is an  international group of Control Line Aerobatics experts on the Internet. The Group supplements the rules defining work of the national delegates with CIAM/FAI. While it is not an official organisation of FAI/CIAM, the Group reports to the Chairman of the FAI/CIAM F2 Control Line Subcommittee. Anyone may apply for Group membership and contribute to the common cause of C/L Aerobatics. Other language posts/comments/suggestions are welcome. Discussion records/files may be published (see attach, page 40) on the Internet. The Group invites individuals worldwide to join by applying for membership, following instructions given on this website.

https://groups.yahoo.com/F2BGroup

To read content and/or post applicants must at the same time create their own personal Yahoo account. (check "Sign-In")

Thank your for contributing








« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 12:12:57 AM by Peter Germann »
Peter Germann


Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2017, 04:38:34 PM »
A step in the correct direction! Bravo!  H^^ Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 08:31:49 PM »
Peter,
I salute you!
And concur.  A great step to reward those that work so hard and build beautiful airplanes beyond those that buy them built by others.  The skill required to do this is far above the relatively simple physical prowess to fly one well, and should be rewarded!

Bravo!   H^^

Randy Cuberly
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 05:30:47 PM »
YES.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 12:50:52 PM »
They should require that only models that place in the top 50% (or some other level) qualify for the award.  This would preclude the use of "beauty-only" entries.
Paul Smith

Offline NED-088

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 04:02:26 AM »
Seeing some of the reactions here made me think about the subject once more.

To my knowledge, most (if not all, minus one) National Championships in the world are flown according to F2B rules.
How fair would you estimate the fact that a FAI member (in this case the USA), while deliberately not using FAI rules for their National Championships, still being eligible to vote on a subject that doesn't apply to them?
To be more exact: They can help change the way we are having our contests, but we can't do anything about theirs (not that I would, but that's another discussion).

Because of that I would welcome their opinion(s) as soon as they'd start flying to F2B rules too, but for now I think here is only a place for those who are flying or judging (or were, for that matter) F2B.

Since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I will always consider any type of 'beauty contest' unfair and therefore to be excluded from any influence on the final results of a F2B competition.
As it is about the flying and not about what you're flying with.

Disclaimer: I'm not flying Yatsenko planes for two reasons, I can't afford them and they don't look like a plane I'd like to fly (albeit the YAK coming close...)
I've lost many places in rankings to guys flying those machines, but that's perfectly fair, because they were simply flying better.
'If you think there's something about my English, you're right. I'm Dutch... '
But I DO play Stunt and I DO fly Bluegrass.

Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 05:12:12 AM »
NED,
  Reread the post by Peter. Unless, I'm interpreting your reaction wrong, peter suggests a award for the the prettiest built model by a pilot. Unless there is something not written here, that is the award and is separate from your flight score. Peter also suggest this be for the World Championships not all or your F2B national championships.
  My personal opinion is, it's a great idea and you can opt to participate or not. I take pride in my work and if I could be on the level of some of the top finishers, and that's what I get out of the sport then, why not be recognized.

Tom
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Online Trostle

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 09:24:00 AM »

(Clip)

As it is about the flying and not about what you're flying with.

(Clip)


The F2B rules do not have a builder of the model requirement.  So indeed, the F2B rule makers have set up the event to be "about the flying and not what you're flying with."

Here in the USA, our AMA rules for Precision Aerobatics are for a model airplane event which requires the competitor to be the builder of the model and appearance points are part of the rules.  So our event is NOT just "about the flying".  However, in our skill classes which are separate from the Precision Aerobatics rules, the builder of the model rule is not required with the attendant loss of appearance points.  Some local contests even forego the award of appearance points.  Meanwhile, our Nationals Championships event still requires the builder of the model to be eligible to fly in what most feel is still a model airplane event which encompasses both flying and building.

Keith

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 09:58:45 AM »
Somebody could donate a trophy and maybe a  nice cash prize and run the beauty contest as a side show, like the "high static" awards that are given out in Scale events.

No need to take on the FAI rules system.
Paul Smith

Offline NED-088

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 01:26:10 PM »
Just noticed where the mix up came from.
This topic is just about the opening post in the F2B forum.
Later, there were some answers there, suggesting to make it part of the total score like in AMA.
But you could not see that here.
My apologies for the confusion I caused.

Like said, I grew up with F2B, in a time it had (like all FAI modelling events) a BOM rule.
After the abolishing of that rule I had both advantage and disadvantage from that.
Long time ago, I pranged my only good model -in a similar freakish way Kenny Stevens lost his in 2014- 2 days before we'd leave for a Eu. Ch.
Only because of a team mate giving me a ship, very similar to my lost one, the Dutch team still could compete with all three members.
In more recent times, I've been flying against people with RTF models that enabled them to fly to the best of their abilities.
But that's fine, since to me it's all about the flying, therefore I won't complain. I should have flown better.
Again, my response was mainly to input from a discussion that meanwhile had developed somewhere else .

Of course I think a 'beauty contest' is a highly subjective thing.
I never liked the 'bulky fuselage with tiny, symbolic canopy' look of most piped ships.
Neither a 'look-a-like/semi scale' model with an unrealistic, glass like finish.
Further more, if anything like 'workmanship' would be a criterion, then how about all features the eye can't see?
A home built engine, control system, or -o heresy- a self developed motor controller?
From experience I can say that nothing is as easy as making one but at the same time unbelievably time- and effort consuming to get it anywhere near working properly. Anyway, I haven't succeeded (yet).
But those skills surely will be missed by just looking and feeling only the outside of our beloved machines.
I consider that not fair.

Therefore in my opinion we should leave it at what we can judge, the flying.
'If you think there's something about my English, you're right. I'm Dutch... '
But I DO play Stunt and I DO fly Bluegrass.

Online Trostle

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 05:14:25 PM »
They should require that only models that place in the top 50% (or some other level) qualify for the award.  This would preclude the use of "beauty-only" entries.

Why?

What is the logic in this?

Just wondering.

Keith

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 07:33:36 PM »
Why?
What is the logic in this?
Just wondering.

Keith

To prevent nations that don't have three competitive flyers from using a team spot to enter "beauty-only" model. 
Not that the whole issue matters, but in contests with "beauty only" prizes, they tend be won by planes that barely fly.
50% is just a first guess.  The idea is some minimum standard to qualify, other than simply entering.
Paul Smith

Offline Russell Bond

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Re: Airplanes Beauty Contest at FAI F2B World Championships?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2017, 08:01:42 PM »
Won't work at the Worlds Paul. You wouldn't know which pilots were in the top 50%) Besides, why should less skilled pilots miss out??

Appearance judging  would have to be done on processing day because if you don't make the top 15 fly-off some pilots go home as they have a long way to go.
You couldn't judge "appearance" before processing day as some pilots arrive the night before processing and they would miss out on judging.

Bandolero

Online Peter Germann

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F2B Concours d’Elégance

The art of control-line aerobatics is a unique combination of designing, constructing and flying skills. While the degree of expertise required to fly c/l stunt is high, the additional challenge of constructing a competitive and elegant airplane is very motivating for many of the competitors. To recognise and reward the substantial efforts required to compete with an own-constructed model, I suggest the on-site implementation of an official FAI F2B Concours d’Elégance contest for the pilot/constructor of the most elegant class F2B model participating in an F2B World Championship. The outcome of this separate event shall remain without influence on the ranking of the actual F2B contest.

A related draft proposal was prepared and is currently discussed within the F2B Working Group on the Internet:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/F2BGroup/info

Attached is an update of all topics so far discussed within the Group and the unofficial FAI F2B Concours d’Elégance draft proposal. A related poll is open until october 31st.
Peter Germann


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