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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Rat Racing and Team Racing => Topic started by: Willis Swindell on July 24, 2010, 07:28:24 AM
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Scott
Have you heard any practice times from our TR team at the worlds?
Willis ???
Or anyone?
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Only reports I've seen is from Derek on the stunt team. H^^
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Willis,
Dave Fischer and Steve Wilk turned a 3:19 in their first heat race.
I have not heard avout Dick and Tom or Walt and J.E. I will post what I hear
as it comes in most of my info is coming off facebook
The number 1 french team turned a 3:05
The official site to check is http://www.bumacofly.atw.hu/
when and if he starts posting information.
Scott
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Update on times at the WCH as posted elsewhere on the internet
F2C - Round 1
1st is OUGEN/SURUGUE French team 3.05.0;
2nd is SURUGUE/SURUGUE 3.06.3;
3rd is BONDARENKO/LERNER 3.07.5;
Fitzgerald Ellin 10th 3.13
Simons Potter 15th 3.21
Letchford Walton 18th 3.22
Wilson Poschkens 19th 3.23
From Steve Wilk via facebook
Round 1
Perkins, Albritton 3:30
Lambert, Fluker DNF
Wilk Fischer 3:18
From the Barton Forum
Rob Fitzgerald and Mark Ellins have just posted a 3.02 in Rd 2!!
Scott
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That is getting fast. That is 100 laps with pit stops fellas. I think the good teams are making less than 10 second pit stops. n~
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Scott
Thanks for the information .
Willis H^^
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Doc,
Pitstops must be well under ten seconds for the times shown the laps times are running in the sub 17sec./10 laps
therefore the pit stops are under 5 sec.It would not surprise me to see a sub 3:00 heat before the end of this contest.
There are a few teams turning lap time below 16.5/10 laps.
Scott
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It's a good thing the FAI went to the larger diameter (.35mm vs. .3mm) lines to slow the models down. :) The current heat time record is 3:00.8 set with the .3mm lines.
If the model is doing 17/10 in traffic, the start is likely 2-3 seconds (lean over or kneel down, grab model, and one flick), with total impact of a pit stop being about 5 - 9 seconds (time difference for 10 laps with a pit stop and 10 laps without a pit stop). That points to 1/4 - 1/2 lap shutdown and landing. The mechanic probably has his hands on the model for about 3 - 5 seconds. The pilot barely has time to reset to the proper launch position once the mechanic has the model. Obviously a single flick per pit stop. A single flick costs 1/4 - 1/2 second. Each following flick is something like 1/2 - 3/4 second. Frustration sets in after about the third flick and the time for each flick seems to increase (BTW, you are already out of the race). HB~>
100 laps @ 17/10 = 170 seconds
start = 2 seconds
2 pit stops @ 8 seconds = 16 seconds
Total = 188 seconds or 3:08
That is an impressive time.
Newer tank technology allows for starting while still filling. Older tanks would allow the mechanic to start the engine but the window of how long before the mechanic released the valve or the engine shutoff again was very small. Whether the tank directly support starting while filling or the mechanic is timing the flick, timing of the flick is utmost because the pilot is going to take the model as soon as the engine starts. If the tank isn't full when the engine starts, too bad. The model is in the air.
Not only do the times reported reflect very good equipment, it represents excellent teamwork between the pilot and mechanic and an outstanding demonstration of piloting and mechanic skills. The same equipment in the hands of a lessor team can easily turn times in the 3:45 - 4:15 range. :'(
Dave
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Pictures from the WCH go here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fesselflug/
Scott
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Yes that is the way we would time pit stops. Fly ten laps for a time. Then ten more laps for time with a pit stop. The pit man can only get so fast. It is up to the pilot to get it to the pit man so he can do his thing. And some of these were close as the prop must be stopped before the pit man can grab. That is unless the rules have changed.
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Flipping while filling is the norm in F2C now, fun to watch! Pressure refuel rigs and finger valves are neat. Diesels only though, IMO, having an alcohol bomb strapped to my arm, the one with the hot fingers, doesn't appeal to me!
Gliding time to the minimum is necessary for all racing. I've found gliding laps taking between 7-10 seconds, Clowns and SSRs being the slowest. A gliding lap is a lot of handicap to put on yourself. Takes a lot of practice by the pitman to be ready for 1/4-1/2 lap shutdowns, and a lot of pilot familiarity with the airplane.
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Don,
With a half lap shutdown a pit under 5 sec from the time he shuts it off until the engine start is pretty common these days. But you are right both pilot and pit have to know their equipment and practice, practice, and more practice. <=
Scott
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This just in the provisional results through Round two are here
http://users.atw.hu/bumacofly/wch/dokumentumok/f2c_results.pdf
Scott
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In F2C, a powered lap can be in the 1.7 sec time range. A gliding lap is somewhere between 3 - 6 seconds. So it is important not to glide any further than necessary. The mechanic can't touch the model while the prop is turning. So that adds an additional thing to consider.
For a race that is not the World Championships, most teams have the pilot hit the shutoff over the mechanic or within the next 1/4 lap past the mechanic. The pilot transitions to the outer part of the flying circle and starts dragging back on the model to slow it down. Roughly 1/4 lap ahead of the pit location the pilot heads for his pit position on the pitting line. It could be a spiral arc but more likely it is a diagonal chord between the two points. The pilot needs to pass over the previous segment boundary at least 1 meter in the air (39.36 inches) and then land in the pit segment. A medium arm extension should put the middle of the outboard over the pit line at the mechanic. Once the mechanic has the model in hand the pilot shifts slightly forward, plants the push off foot, crouches, and gets the fingertips of the non-flying hand on the ground. If the mechanic is reasonably good, the engine will start about the time the pilot's hand hits the ground.
This sounds jerky. For a team used to working together and both members trust each other it will seem almost like a smooth motion.
BTW, ever notice the lines at the wing tip of a F2C model always seem to have a bend at the leadout guide? That comes from the inertia of the flying lines when the mechanic makes his catch. The model is moving at a real good clip when the mechanic grabs it and the lines whip forward from their trailing position to some distance ahead of the model. Some mechanics have softer hands than others but the model comes to an abrupt stop.
For a World Championship race, the starting point for the above sequence starts somewhat later in the pit lap. Perhaps 3/4 to 1/2 lap from the mechanic. ~^
Dave
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Is this what you call a line bending catch?
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From the look of the muscles in your forearm, I'd guess you were working hard! I can't imagine catching a model weighing 2x what the current model weigh going the speed they are when the get to the mechanic.
The worst blood blister I've gotten came from a wing catch for a Mouse Racer. Only weighs 6 oz but the pilot was excited!
Dave
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The pit man is supposed to give a litle when catching. Gives time to clamp down on the out board wing. With enough practice can be done without looking at the plane the last couple of feet. At the 2004 champs I was blown away at some of the pit stops. But, like you say, todays equipment is nothing like the stuff we used back then. I was still trying to get under the max weight. The fiber glass shells helped in that department. Notice the fuel bottle in the pit mans hand. That was hi tech back then.
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The pilot has to give also if he doesn't you loose the wing.
Willis
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They have started posting the standings:
http://bumacofly.atw.hu/wch/results.html
Dave
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Giving a little on the catch is an understatement. My 16 year old son while getting better about landings has a tendency to get caught up upin the moment as do I. For him learning to bleed off the speed has been a chore and yes I have a picture somewhere of a wing giving way under a hard catch. This picture is about 2 years old but it does give you an idea.
On edit: The second picture is Ron when he was about 5'10 now he is 6'1" with big feet to match he is a up and coming pilot now if I can keep those pesky girls away. HB~>
Scott
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F2C third round results are up on the results page:
http://users.atw.hu/bumacofly/wch/dokumentumok/f2c_results.pdf
Scott
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There are no 1/2 lap shut-downs in F2C.
Bill
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For some reason I can’t open the PFD files for the scores, could some one tell me where our teams are and some times.
Thanks Willis
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For some reason I can’t open the PFD files for the scores, could some one tell me where our teams are and some times.
Thanks Willis
I cracked the cypher:
1st, 3:02
12th, 3:14,
USA, 16th, 27th, & 32nd, 3;19, 3:25, & 3:29.
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There are no 1/2 lap shut-downs in F2C.
Bill
Well, probably not intentionally ... ;D
Dave
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Scott, don't tell him about the ladies competing at the 2004 Worlds. Especially in F2C. H^^