Author Topic: MOUSE RACING PLANS? (Read 16535 times)

LARRY RICE · « **on:** January 20, 2008, 06:18:44 PM »

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY GOOD MOUSE RACER PLANS? We are looking for a plane that will make a good kit.
Larry

Les Akre · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2008, 04:49:24 PM »

Larry

The Streaker mk IV, or mk V. is one of the best designs going. A very simple design, and built almost exclusively from Basswood for extreme durability.

Regards, Les Akre

Dave Rolley · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2008, 08:49:37 AM »

Larry,

I have a Mouse design that uses all straight lines. 24" span with 45 sq in wing area, roughly 12" long fuselage long. There is a family resemblance to a Streaker. All basswood except the balsa fill blocks behind the engine mount.

I have a second design that we used in 1/2A Profile Proto. 18" span, with 45 sq in wing area, roughly 12" long fuselage. This would also work for a Mouse racer for those that like shorter wings.

I'll take some pictures tonight and post them here.

It would take me a couple of evenings to create the plans in AutoCAD.

Dave Rolley

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2008, 08:58:12 AM »

Dave,
I would be interested in looking at them. I do not need plans in autocad, a simple line sketch is plenty. I do not understand why all of the planes seem to be made in bass wood. As I get it these planes use reed valve .049's.
Larry

john e. holliday · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2008, 09:00:15 AM »

Go for it Dave. Larry, in our part of the plains the extra weight helps in the windy conditions we have. Also with the kids it is the durability of the planes. DOC Holliday

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2008, 09:05:51 AM »

Doc, while I got you can you spell out the AMA rules on the design of the planes? You know wing span, area and so on.
Thanks
Larry

don Burke · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2008, 09:19:42 AM »

Larry,
There's no reason a sport model couldn't be balsa. But as noted, most of the race mice (mouses?) are made of bass just for the weight on the lines. Balsa ones are too light to whip on landing laps, plus there's the wind factor in those areas with that weather.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2008, 09:20:26 AM »

Actually, your smaller hollow logs work just as well as a purpose-built mouse racer.

There are no particular ariframe design rules.

Just Class I = reed valve only, Class II is any 1/2A engine. Must have a landing gear.

The simple trainers shown here worked perfect as mouse racers, as did the Scientific Piper Cub Special.

The trainers were both built from a single piece of Sig 1/8' x 3" x 36" glider wing stock.

The 2nd & 3rd pitchers also feature a table-top carrier deck launcher with carpet to stabilize the wheels.

The last pitcher is John Brzys with a "genuine" Mouse. As started elsewhere, these have an advantage flying over pavement where they can be whipped into the pit. But over grass, the soft landing of a Golden Hawk is better.

Dave Rolley · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2008, 02:18:13 PM »

Larry,

Most of the following has been covered in several posts by others. I'm just pulling it together in a single message.

The Mouse racers are generally made from bass wood because, believe it or not, you can have a model that is too light. Basically, other than engine type and a ROG requirement with a minimum single wheel landing gear, anything goes. (I'm sure I've missed a detail or two with that description)

Class 1 Mouse uses an 0.049 cu in engine with integral tank and reed valve induction. (for the most part a Cox engine) You can use the spring starter during the race. Very few folks have figured out how to implement an engine shutoff for these type of engines. So the pilot can not really control when the engine shuts off. The pilot has to whip the model to the pitman or the pitman has to run to the model. The event is flown on 42 feet lines. A light model and long lines can get interesting. Most models seem to be in the 5 - 6 oz range. There are a handful of high performance 1/2A engines that have been converted to reed valve induction with an integral tank. While very fast these engines have a spotty reliability record in an actual race. However, even though there are probably less than 10 such conversion engines in the country, they have had a chilling effect on the event in some areas. Some locations are restricting the use of these conversion type of engines in order preserve event participation. BTW, a stock Cox Black Widow is still a competitive engine, even for the adults.

Class 2 Mouse uses an 0.049 cu in engine. As you can imagine, with some of the modern 1/2A engines out there (Cyclon, GZ) the model can be much faster. So much so that the lines were lengthened to 47.5 feet and the fuel was restricted to 10% nitro. These changes coupled with enforcing the restriction on using spring starters during the race has almost killed of the event. Several locations has taken to allowing unlimited nitro and spring starters to see if the event can be salvaged.

If you can attend you will see both classes run, with the above rule extensions, at the Cabin Fever contest in Tucson the weekend of April 5 & 6. It is likely you can see the events run at Whittier at one of the SCAR or KotRC contests.

While the current focus of our racing is F2C, my son and I started racing with Class 1 Mouse (using a Streaker) and we still really enjoy the event.

The British have a 1/2A Mini Goodyear event (but they use 0.09 cu in engine in their 1/2A events) that they fly off of grass with no landing gear. They slide the model in to the pitman (or cartwheel end over end) and hand launch it from the pit with a flick of the wrist. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun for a site that didn't have a paved surface. Just leave the LG off or make it removable.

Dave

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2008, 03:34:56 PM »

I like the look of the streaker and have plans that do not have dimensions on then. Once I get past that I will look at how much it needs to be put into kit form. The "V" tail could be a problem. I am looking at some minor alterations to it but not much.
Larry

Dave Rolley · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2008, 04:47:21 PM »

Larry,

The only reason, other than looks, for the "V" tail is so the tail does not drag on the ground when the wing tip is on the ground (single wheel landing gear). The model flys fine with a flat tail. If you go with a flat tail it just needs a tail skid that is longer than the nylon Goldberg tip skid that is used as a tail skid.

You'll see one of my Mouse Racers with a flat tail and a longer tail skid later tonight.

Dave

Dave Rolley · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2008, 09:38:12 PM »

Here are the pictures I promised.

The first one is a shot of all three types. A 1/2A Proto, a Class 1 Mouse, and a Class 2 Mouse.

The second one is a closeup of the Class 1 Mouse. 24" wing span. It uses a Cox derived engine. Simply mix and match Cox part until it feels right. The glo plug is a Norvel Freedom plug and clamp ring. The engine mount is a piece of aluminum "T" stock I cut on a band saw and rounded the corners on a belt sander. For a kit targeting kids and beginning adults, 1/8" or 3/16" plywood staked on with some 1/8" wooden dowels would work just fine. Yep the elevator hinges are broken.

The third one is a Class 2 Mouse. Also 24" span. It uses a Cyclon engine. Basically it is the same airframe as the Class 1 Mouse. While the fuselage is round, it is simply the flat core with the balsa fairing run to the tail and rounded. Notice the flat horizontal tail rather than the butterfly tail of the Class 1 Mouse. The engine mount on this one is more complex. It was machined from a piece of 1/4" aluminum "T" stock on a Taig lathe. But that was because of the engine I use on it. Plus it was a nice exercise for me to learn how to do interrupted cuts on a lathe.

The fourth one is the 1/2A Proto. I think this design would also make a nice Mouse Racer. It has an 18" span. The wing area on all three models is about 46 sq in. If I was going to make this as a Mouse racer, I'd drop the sub-rudder for a tail skid and go to the single wheel landing gear like the other two models have.

I build the long wing Class 1 models 6 at a time. Basically I cut six kits on my table saw using a taper jig to get the angles correct. My son and I build all six of them up over a weekend. I used to carve the airfoil with a block plane and a sanding block. Now I use a Porter Cable random orbit sander with 60 grit , then go to 150 grit, then hand block sand with 220 grit to finish. The finish on the Class 1 Mouse is Glass Kote. It has not yellowed in 2 years. Still nice and clear. The finish on the Class 2 Mouse is simply finishing resin. It yellowed the first summer to a nice warm amber patina. It is about 4 years old. The 1/2 Proto is finished with K&B Super Poxy (it is 9 years old).

Why do we build so many Class 1 models at a time? One, the event is sometimes a demolition derby, it helps to have spares. Two, we have models to lend. And three, we give them away to any kid at the contest that looks interested and doesn't have one. Unfortunately, even though the kids that get the models have parents that are modelers, for all those we have given away we have only seen one in the air at a later time. We have never had one show up at a later race. Since we are on our third or fourth batch in 10 years we are probably up to 10 or 12 given away.

This design is nice and stable. I even converted one to monoline to learn how to fly that way and it flew well. 1/2A reed valve monoline speed anyone?

Hope this is useful.

BTW, I picked up an American Boy kit last summer. I had one as a kid, lots of good times with that plane. I'm thinking of building it for Mouse with a single wheel gear just to see how it would do.

later,

Dave

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2008, 06:36:07 AM »

This is very helpful, Thank You!
Larry

Dave Rolley · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2008, 12:17:46 PM »

Larry,

One last thing. I think Melvin Schuette (MBS Model Supply) is already producing the Streaker kit. I remember him chasing down folks to get permission to do so. You might wish to contact him to see the status of his efforts before going much further on that design.

Dave

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2008, 01:36:40 PM »

Know that I have all of the information needed we will design our own plane. I have been toying with the idea of naming it "Mickey". Thank you for all of your help, I go out of my way to never interfer with anyone else producing a model kit.
Larry

Dave Rolley · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2008, 06:06:05 PM »

Larry,

If you decide to call is Mickey, please make the horizontal tail a "V" tail in the shape of a Fokker DR-1 rudder!

Dave

john e. holliday · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2008, 10:09:38 AM »

Larry, I have seen Dave's design fly and have even flown against it. It seems to be real stable and fast. I used to fly all balsa mouse planes covered with fiber glass and epoxy. They were just not durable. DOC Holliday

Bob Riegl · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2008, 07:17:58 AM »

Any of the Mouse Racers shown from John Brzys down are what we build round hyar. With and without "vee" tails. I would suggest bass for the wings and "body"---I think they need that extra weight for whipping and to be able to tolerate tricky winds. Great Idea and huzzah---now I have two Mice to finish after I finish my two new Clown Racers.

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2008, 10:29:07 AM »

Hi Guys,

Glad to hear there is still a little interest in Mouse Racing. I live in Winston-Salem, NC and we use to do a good bit of racing here in the mid to late 80's and early 90's. Are there any contest scheduled for 2008 that are anywhere close to NC. We use to have at least 2 contests heare each year and problably 4-6 more in driving distance plus the NATS each year.

Maybe I need to dust off some of my stuff and still see if it is still competitive. It was pretty good in it's day. I flew with my daughter Karyn in thoses days and we had a lot of fun. Since I don't recall any of your names, that must mean you are younger and that's good.

Keep the thread going and lets talk some more Mouse Racing. We use to fly a plane called Natural Lite that was my design

Wayne Foster

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2008, 07:00:24 AM »

Wayne,
Do you still use cad to lay out your tulips in the front garden. Last I remember you were working for Fruit of the Loom. Come on and get back into racing. You really need to check out some of the events flown today ie. Clown, Quickie rat, and F2C.
See if you reconize this old fart in the picture.

Scott Jenkins

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2008, 08:08:04 AM »

Hi Scott,

I bet there aren't five people alive that know I use to lay out the flower garden with CAD. If I can lose a few pounds maybe I can get in shape to do a little Racing like the guy with the funny plane and helmet in the picture. Do you remember Bill Waggoner? We are trying to get back in Mouse Racing this year and were even thinking about having a few contests up here. I need to find out what everyone wants to fly theses days. We were thinking about Speed Limit Combat, Mouse Racing Class 1 and probably one other racing event if it was a one day meet. We have a great place to fly at Hobby Park with 2 paved circles and one grass area for Combat.

Looks like Clown Racing might be good but why can't you guys pin down the equipment? I like the idea of being able to fly something that you can buy the engines for and not have to look all over e-bay for old stuff. Thats why I like Speed Limit Combat. Buy yourself and few good LA .25's and go have fun.

I always liked Florida Slow Rat. Still have equipmet laying around for that. Any airplane, and at the time the Super Tiger engine which you could buy. I have never much liked the idea of specifying the airplane, but now that Brodak and a few other people are making CL kits again, maybe not a bad idea.

I think Bill and I are planning on trying to make the NATS this year for Mouse Racing. I hope they still have it. I think they starting keeping records in Mouse Racing a year or so after Karyn and I stopped flying. Good to hear from you and hope to see you soon.

Wayne

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2008, 09:41:57 AM »

Wayne,
You need to catch up, Florida slow rat is all but dead now that AMA slow rat has gone to a .25 size engine that will probably prevail to a extent. Mouse I and II have gone the way of the custom engine with variants made from Russian engines like the Cyklon and Profi since Cox os no longer made parts are slowly getting harder to get and do not have near the performance of the russian engines.
Clown all you need do is get a set of plans or a kit buy a OS Max 18 TZ car ($150.00) engine with a universal shaft build a 1 oz tank get some one to make you a prop nut build the plane as light as you can and go racing. You and Bill need to hop in the car and come down to Florida on February 23 & 24, we are having a contest near Ocala. See the flyer in this forum.

Scott

don Burke · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:13:13 AM »

I think that the death of Slow Rat is due to not having enough pilots with oversize arms to hold onto the suckers! One of my fondest memories of the NATS is watching Jason Allen leaning backwards, knees bent back almost 90 degrees while being pulled around the circle. Biggest grin I've seen on a pilot's face during a race!

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:29:08 AM »

Hi Guys,
I thought I would post what I use to fly and what I will be flying this year. Here are the specifications for the Natural Light.

Weight without Engine/Prop     69.98 grams = 2.47 ounces
Weight Ready to Fly Less Fuel   142.20 grams = 5.02 ounces
Wing Span         18.25 inches
Wing Area         48.00 square inches
Construction - Built Up Balsa Wing, 1/16” Bass Stab, Aluminum Fuselage Tube
-    Single Wheel, V-Tail, Button Bellcrank
Engine   - Slight Modified Klause Black Widow or equivalent
Prop      - Cox Grey 5.5 x 6 cut down to what was required for the day usually 5”
Fuel      - 35 – 50 % Nitro, 20% Klotz Oil,
RPM      - At launch no more than 18,000

Required to win Races constantly

1.    Good racing, Good Pitting – Pilot hits pit, Pit Man gets plane back in the air in 5 seconds
2.    Clean Engine –Ran our engines thru an Ultra Sonic Cleaner after practice and before Race Day
3.    No more that 1 Pit Stop in Heat race and 2 Pit Stops in the Feature
4.    A Little Luck, Some Days a Lot of Luck

As long as the plane is strong enough to withstand flying, there is no such thing as to Light in Mouse Racing.

Scott, I just saw you post as I was getting ready to post this. If you guys can’t turn sub 5:00 minutes finals I just may win a few races this year. Here are the results form the 2007 NATS.

1st Bill Lee 5:30.08
2nd Dave Hull 5:38.17
3rd Dave Hallas 5:44.07

Hope to see you guys at some races this year.

Wayne

Paul Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2008, 02:10:47 PM »

Hot Glove !!

Arrow shafts

You guys should be 'shamed of your selfs, bringing that stuff to Mouse I.

Everybody around here was beating those times in the loggers with Golden Hawks and Army Racers.

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #25 on:** January 28, 2008, 02:51:03 PM »

Wayne,
Gotta ask how well does it fly in a 15 -20 mph wind. Your talking aboput flying at Muncie
where the tallest thing around is a stalk of corn and the wind constantly blows. You may
need another ounce just to keep it in the air. Up your nitro to 60% and add 2% propylene oxide.

Scott

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #26 on:** January 28, 2008, 04:24:30 PM »

Hi Scott,

The Natural Light design was flown in a lot of races in the 80's and early 90's. The wind use to blow sometime back then also. It is a very good flyer in the wind. If you go fast, the wind doesn't seem to bother you so much with a sleek design. We have been to at least 5 NATS and probably another 60 contests. Never any problems.

I have never had to go over 50% nitro and used propylene oxide in my early days but not anymore. Have never broke a crank in a race and don't blow too many plugs. I have always tried to get laps over max speed since I started to notice most guys have to make 3 pit stops in the final. This design setup almost always get 35 - 38 laps per tank. That's one of the reasons I run a large prop and low RPM's compared to most.

Bill and I talked about your contest in Fla on Feb 23 -24. If we can we plan to come down, but don't have anything to fly except Mouse, so I guess we will just watch and learn. Where are you living now? Didn't you use to hang out with the Norfolk crowd.

Hey Paul, bring those LOGGERS on down and we will see if we can't scare up a boat race for you. Actually, I like those little planes, just never got around to building one.

Wayne

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2008, 07:07:37 AM »

Wayne,
I have been living in Florida since 85 and do not miss the wet wind blowing off the Chesapeake bay at all. Got out of modeling for a while 10 years more and decided to start a family. Now I have a very capable up and coming young pilot with, to me, really amazing flying skills, what did you expect me to say I am his Dad.
Try adding 4 to 6 head gaskets and up the nitro you won't lose any laps in the process plus you can reduce the oil down to 12 to 15% which is worth a few more RPM. Ronnie is the one in the T-Shirt.

Scott

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #28 on:** January 29, 2008, 08:02:08 AM »

Hi Scott,

Nice looking team you have there. How old is your boy. Karyn and I really had a lot of fun flying when she was about 14 -17. How about posting some pictures of your Mouse Planes and any specifications you are willing to part with. I always like to see what the competition is flying and how they go about winning. I have always told everyone who asks, exactly what I do with my equipment. I've found this never hurts me because almost no one will do everything you tell them. It's never about one or two things, but how the whole system works together. Everyone has their own way of doing things and what works for one team, doesn't always work for another. That's the fun of racing.

Let's see some pictures.

Wayne

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #29 on:** January 29, 2008, 10:32:39 AM »

Wayne,
Actually I only built my last mouse racer to stimulate some interest from my son in flying. The plane actually flys it self very stable grooves like a rock. He got bored with the 1/2A after about 6 flights so we moved him on to a .15 size trainer told him to fly it like he wanted to after two tanks and a little instruction we knew he was bored with the trainer when he started doing the high speed taxi after half of the third tank. I pulled out a F2CN backed off the compression a bit and put him up then taught him how to get the plane back to the pit. Since then he has progressed on to flying a F2C running in the 18/10 laps range and flying 2 and 3 up. He puts in in my hand every time on pits even on half lap shutdowns they can be a bit painful I much perfer 3/4 to 1 lap. Any way here is a pdf of the mouse racer. If you want it I have it in Autocad format also. The pdf version is the better of the two models. The JPG is easier to build. Oh yea Ronnie is 13 going on 25

Scott

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2008, 10:07:47 AM »

Talking about V tails I dug this out of the attic a few months ago. the 1980 Nat's mouse winner. I know Scott and Wyane remembers this one they raced against it many times.
Willis

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2008, 10:26:50 AM »

Hi Willis,

Yea, I remember that plane. I think we all looked a little less beat up in 1980. Is that a model of the Sweet Pea? I think I had a 1/2A Goodyear of that plane also. I was just looking through a stack of pictures that Ringo took back in those days. I have 6 or 8 of you and the Norfolk guys, but none of you and that plane.

Are you ready to do a little Mouse Racing?

Wayne

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2008, 10:37:40 AM »

Hi Wayne
Only if Jet Mouth flys.
Willis

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2008, 01:20:21 PM »

Hi Willis,
I do remember that plane a real good flyer, my oh my, if we could revive Goodyear mouse I would definitely build one.
I always like the 1/2 a goodyear never understood why it did not catch on. Looking for the Brodak 25 to come available again to put in a slow rat maybe even a Tempest considerably lighter than the first one I built man what a rock that was.

Come down to Florida on the 23 and 24 of Feb. I bet it will be a lot warmer down here bring your fox racer and a clown we will lend you a British goodyear to fly.

Scott

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #34 on:** January 30, 2008, 02:20:34 PM »

Hey Scott we always few the Sweet Pea in Goodyear and mouse 1. It was always as fast as most mouse 1 and it landed a lot better.
Willis ;
The only mouse 1 and 2s we used were the flying wings and we didn’t fly them in the wind because of the wild landings.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #35 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:05:05 PM »

Quote from: Wayne Foster on January 28, 2008, 04:24:30 PM

Hi Scott,

Hey Paul, bring those LOGGERS on down and we will see if we can't scare up a boat race for you. Actually, I like those little planes, just never got around to building one.

Wayne

OK, so how fast do these Mice I's go, in MPH?

I'll tell you what the winning loggers are doing.

You first!

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #36 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:11:35 PM »

Hi Willis,

There wasn't anything much funnier that watching you and Tate fly those Pie Pans in a little wind. I wish I had some video of that. I will have to call JET JAWS and see if she is up to a little Mouse Racing. With all of us a "Little Weight Challenged" and Karyn with her left ankle fused in place that should be interesting. Karyn broke her ankle a few years back and after 3 or 4 operations, the only thing left to do was fuse it in place. She can walk just fine, but the ankle joint doesn't pivot up and down.

If I can get the old Ringo pictures scanned into digital form I will post a few. They bring back good memories.

Wayne

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #37 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:15:36 PM »

Willis,
Build the round trailing edge model I posted earlier it really does fly and land well even in the wind. I will see if I can find the pictures of it I have them somewhere.

Ummm, weight challenged not me, my metabolism is still in hyperdrive I weighed 170 in 1985 when I left Norfolk and still do give or take a steak dinner or two.

Scott

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #38 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:22:29 PM »

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the nice pictures. I still want to build one of those someday. What engines do you guys have to run on those? I wasn't sure how fast our Mouse Planes went in MPH since we are usually just interested in how long it takes to go 100 laps. Our normal time for a feature race use to be anywhere from 4:40 - 5:10. The fastest I ever went in a sanctioned contest was 4:34 I think in Florida one year.

I just found an old NATS trophy from 1985 where Karyn won Junior 1/2A Speed with a time of 76.8 MPH. I don't remember if that was a great run or not, but it was enough to win 1/2A Speed that day with a Natural Light Mouse Racer.

Wayne

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #39 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:32:38 PM »

Hi Scott,

Yea some guys are like you. I was too until I hit about 42 or so. That's alright, as soon as Willis and I can get by the Scooter Store and pick up that lastest Hyper Speed model, we will come down and give you a run for your money. I sure wish you could pit the racers off card tables. Maybe a new Senior Class of Racing is needed. As long as its not one of those races where they have a Speed Limit. Who thought that one up? Must have been a Stunt Guy.

Wayne

Paul Smith · « **Reply #40 on:** January 31, 2008, 10:24:26 AM »

We have four events: Craftsmanship, Stunt, Speed, and (for those still flyable) Racing.

The "maximum engine" is either the Black Widow or Fox sport .049. The top three speeds have been 61, 62, and 63 MPH.

In "fly what you brung" Black Widow Racing, the logs have been pretty much equal to all-out racers. This is 'cause drag isn't such a big deal at 63 MPH. Also, purpose-built racers are often short on wing area and nose heavy, resulting in a high AOA.

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #41 on:** January 31, 2008, 02:56:08 PM »

Wayne,
"as soon as Willis and I can get by the Scooter Store and pick up that lastest Hyper Speed model"
First you have to keep Willis from trying to put a Stunt engine in your Scooter.
He thinks you need the 4-2-4 break for going around corners.

"I sure wish you could pit the racers off card tables."
You need a good pilot and air brakes.

"Maybe a new Senior Class of Racing is needed."
They call that Foxberg or Super Slow.

Scott

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #42 on:** February 01, 2008, 03:01:57 PM »

Wayne
I thought your times for the 100 lap races were a little fast . I drug out an old May 1981 Model Aviation mag. that has a article that all of the Norfolk Aeromodelers got together on, and Gene Daniel's wrote. If any one wants to get into 1/2 A racing this is the article to read.
Wayne you were right. I checked my Nat's time that was in the article it was 4: 36 I was thinking a low 5.
Willis

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #43 on:** February 01, 2008, 03:31:26 PM »

Hi Willis,

Yea your time seems about right. I will try to find the article you are talking about. I don't know what times we can run theses days. We were all flying with .008" lines in those days. Now I think we have to fly with .010's".

Seems a little strange that we have to fly our "BIG" 5 ounce Mouse Racers on .010" lines but if we decide to fly Stunt and run .010" lines we can fly up to a 40 ounce plane if the new rules proposal for Stunt goes through. Since they have passed the first vote, I am sure it will pass. I just hope someone doesn't get seriously hurt flying Stunt Planes on such small lines.

Catch you later, I got to go find that May 1981 article. I will tell Karyn that you are ready for a grudge match in Mouse.

Wayne

PaulGibeault · « **Reply #44 on:** February 03, 2008, 06:28:35 AM »

Gentlemen (& Karyn),

Very interesting discussion. Please DO join us back in the mouse racing circle!

In terms of cox engines & rework, etc. the total compendium of published info can be found on the " 049collectors" web site. Sorry, I don't know how to hypelink it.
There are some PLANS & addresses of where to obtain MORE PLANS there. Other than the Venom cylinder porting, there has been essentially NO real technical improvement in coxes in the last 15 years. The (Larry Renger designed) Venom sleeve might give one perhaps, maybe a 4 second heat improvement as far as I can ESTIMATE. My current AMA record holding cox venom is stock, but uses a TD piston as the original lightweight pistons all failed.
I believe your speeds are top notch, especially with your lower nitro fuel. My Streakers top speed is 75mph burning 65% nitro fuel W/ prop oxide.
On 40% fuel, my Streaker has hit 67 mph timed under 1/2A proto conditions. All these with good sea level weather.
Wayne is quite right about the range of a cox being marginal in the final sometimes...the record engine has only ~30 laps on 40% fuel, but up to 38 laps on 65% fuel....HMMMmmm...?? I own one prototype venom that although not as fast has 40+laps on the same fuel. I'm not sure exactly why though.
One Mouse strategy might be to blaze through the heats with the 'guzzler' & fly the final with the 'miser'...? Personally, I can't be bothered & stay with one engine unless I (often) blow it. ( The Venom /Killer Bee cranks have a short life at 21,000+ rpm & are currently the 'achilles heal' of an otherwise reliable engine. I DO NEED to reset my ball socket joints every 200 laps though....( i.e. after EVERY race)

One question that remains unanswered to me is: are your model(s) airframe faster than my standard Streaker mouse racer? Are any of the flying wing models faster? the log models? the Goodyears? Such curiosity I have!! I would be interested in trading models if you want to experiment...
The Bob Fogg version Streaker with the flat stab, CNC cut airfoil, & titanium L.G. is only 4 seconds faster thru the heat than the standard basic plan model.
So....improvements are very small, very subtle & often hard to notice unless you're really observant. But....it's still LOTS of fun!

Best of Luck!

Paul

Thomas Wilk · « **Reply #45 on:** February 03, 2008, 07:53:27 AM »

I have 'Smilimg' Paul's Cox refinement notes in my files. I can try to post them here or send me an email and i'll send them to you.

Tom Wilk
tawilk36@cpinternet.com

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #46 on:** February 03, 2008, 07:57:32 AM »

OK! OK!! I am stepping back from the edge. Now everybody just put their models down and step back...and no body will get hurt.

My hat is off to you guys who take this stuff real seriously

but two things seem to have happened 1- you highjacked my thread (no one is trying to answer it anymore)

. 2- You seem completely unaware of who Black Hawk Models is or you would know how meaning less this all is to the subject.

SO here are the answers: 1- There seems to be a lot of good information here to share that maybe you guys should start your own thread and challenger one another there. I do mean this in the kindest way and I am all for you guys getting together and battling it out over the paved circle

.
2- At Black Hawk Models we are not competition minded. What I was hoping to find was a simple design that a beginner could build and fly at a local circle and just enjoy the experience. Being old my memory may be off here but it seems that in the 70's there was a simple, vee tailed, balsa, sort of scale kit that was popular and was said to be a "Mouse Racer". I think that it might have been a Dumas kit ....or maybe...well the fog is in again

Larry

don Burke · « **Reply #47 on:** February 03, 2008, 09:51:35 AM »

Larry,

I think your original question was on the right track. And I also think that a "Streaker" type airplane would be a good addition to the BLACK HAWK line. They do build fast, fly well, and are very durable. Those are all traits that a "newbie" needs.

If one does decide to get in the asphalt wars, they've got a good start.

In SOCAL the only new racers we have had in the past few years started with Mouse I. Those who enjoyed what they were doing kept at it and moved on to other classes to fly. Others just fly their "MEECES" when they feel the bug and have a good time too.

Wayne Foster · « **Reply #48 on:** February 03, 2008, 02:14:20 PM »

Hi Guys,

I guess I did get off topic to Larry's original post. Sorry, I didn't know Larry was the head of Black Hawk Models. This was not mentioned in the original posts and I thought I was just letting Larry and everyone else know what I was flying. Again, sorry.

Now, let's go to “Let’s Talk Mouse Racing” and continue our discussion of how and what we fly in Competition Mouse Racing.

I am posting a copy of Paul's last entry there to start up the discussion. I hope that is OK.

Wayne Foster

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #49 on:** February 04, 2008, 08:10:41 AM »

To get back on track - Larry, check out No Cal flier Heeman Lee's "Aeromaniacs" web site. There you will see free plans for a very competitive, very beginner friendly WAM mouse racer designed by Gary Buffon. He (and others) have used various versions of this design successfully for many years. It could be the basis for your proposed mouse racer kit. My personal Mouse racer is the "Annie" mouse, from MAN plans. Very light, fast, but it's short wing span and light weight make pitting difficult.

Author Topic: MOUSE RACING PLANS? (Read 16535 times)

Willis Swindell

Willis Swindell

Willis Swindell

Willis Swindell