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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Rat Racing and Team Racing => Topic started by: Mike Callas on July 12, 2020, 02:00:49 AM
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Just got my F2CN from Vova Makarenko. The airframe is professional in every aspect. Motor is a rebuilt Profi from Mark Greenwood. Weight less prop is 345g.
I finished some lines for it and mixed a batch of fuel. Hope to test i Sunday morning.
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Mike actually let me touch the plane today. It is really, really nice. And it still was even after I handed it back to him.
Tomorrow we will fight over who gets to flip and who gets to fly. Gonna be fun either way..... Sure hope it he will run in the hot weather. (The pilot, I mean.)
McDivot
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Unfortunately, I introduced some debris during the fueling process. The motor eventually started, but we chased the setup all day to no avail. I finally noticed some foreign particles in the clear fuel tank. Waiting to get instructions on Zalp tank disassembly and same for a Profi needle valve assembly. Many thanks to the Dave brothers Hull and Dawson. Oh Hull said the plane flies great. It accelerates out of the hole quickly and is easy to land just before the pit. Light and easy on the hand when pitting.
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Does the model have external controls? I hope so. At the risk of being Mr. Buzzkill, the F2C rules, which differ from FAI F2F, require external controls and a non-recessed fuel tank. Of course on a local level, rules may be amended to suit.
BB
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Does the model have external controls? I hope so. At the risk of being Mr. Buzzkill, the F2C rules, which differ from FAI F2F, require external controls and a non-recessed fuel tank. Of course on a local level, rules may be amended to suit.
BB
I sent him the rules from NCLRA and he indeed did mount the control externally. Unfortunately the F2C style tank is partially recessed into the fuse. If that is a point of contention I can replace it with a tank that is not recessed.
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Daves Hull and Dawson helped get the Mak F2CN running pretty good today. Needle was set to get around 39 or so laps. Comp needs some fine tuning. Best 10 laps are mid 20s. I need to get the pitting routine standardized. SO more sessions to come.
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"mid 20's" as in between 20 and 21 sec, or as in between 20 and 30 sec? Our old, slow reliable F2C runs about 20 seconds. An F2CN that fast should be a hoot!
By the way, Mike Greb asked me about your October contest date today. :D
BB
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Between 20 and 21 for 10, clocked on multiple runs after we got things close. Shoulda been wearing my tennis shoes, not the hiking boots....
Divot McSlow
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Bill,
We had some segments in the 20.2 to 20.7 range. We are still trying to get the setting right. Fuel has not been optimized either. My heavy DIY F2CN that you flew is in the mid 21s.
Our friends in Europe are getting mid 19s, so that is my 2nd goal.
1st goal is to get more F2CN planes up and flying. Dave has a Nelson powered plane. Les has another. Rumor has it there are more F2CN teams forming in the Longhorn state.
If it were not for this current BS I would love to drag Dave and Dave, Ron, Doug and Sir Charles to your contest in Oct.
Whether its Dallas, or LA, we will soon see some F2CNs darken the skies.
Mike
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Balsa Overcast?
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Balsa Overcast?
"Balsa"?? Negatory
Carbon!!
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Does the model have external controls? I hope so. At the risk of being Mr. Buzzkill, the F2C rules, which differ from FAI F2F, require external controls and a non-recessed fuel tank. Of course on a local level, rules may be amended to suit.
BB
Bill, these models are what I was talking about at the NATS with you and their legality due to the tank.... I think your wording was something like "as long as it isn't recessed so far as to put it on the other side of the fuse using the force to create fuel pressure, it's probably good" or along those lines...
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Is it against the rules? Clearly, yes it is. Would I care? personally, no. As a contest director, if anyone objected, my obligation would be to follow the rules as written, unless we announced rules allowances ahead of time.
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why don't we just open it up ,allow internal controls presher fueling and any 2.5 diesel and we can obsolete all the planes now flying S?P
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Are Zalp sales that bad Bob?
BTW, Mine is already obsolete and we haven't changed any rules yet...
Les
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what do u mean by that???
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There's always been progression in all of our racing events. How we deal with it often determines the success or failure of the particular event.
Example: A ton of effort was put into coming up with a set of "B" team race rules that (1) didn't obsolete everyone's airplane, and (2) that everyone could live with. The result didn't work out too well in the long run for many reasons. If I had to do it again, I'd be more stringent in the powerplant department.
As far as F2CN... under the current rules, It's been somewhat frustrating, yet fun at the same time. The biggest issue to me, and far bigger than airplane construction, and fueling issues etc., has been heat management in the engine. Trying to find settings that give some decent speed and lappage, yet keep the engine warm enough not to lose it on a pit stop glide, are certainly more difficult to obtain with an F2CN than with a fully cowled F2C model (at least for me). I don't know what the answer ultimately is, but I have a Nelson with steel P/L to try...
Bob, just a tongue in cheek response, now realized you were just kidding about opening it up to all 2.5 diesels.
Les
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Les now we are mostly on the same page check BTR as not to Pirate this Post
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Les wrote:
Trying to find settings that give some decent speed and lappage, yet keep the engine warm enough not to lose it on a pit stop glide, are certainly more difficult to obtain with an F2CN than with a fully cowled F2C model (at least for me).
Like 20 years ago,
all C.M.B.L Landres F2CN teams used to fly the Vorobiev front ex Diesel.
To keep the engine thermally happy, ALL models were flown with Aluminum sheet Deflectors.
Without , these motors would NOT reach their optimal operating temperature.
JPPerett Landres once told me, these engines must run real hot.
The fastest engines (all identical) were those with the longest operating hours.
My almost new engine is still a long way from reaching its peak performance.
Pics @ post #183 , "Racer#5" , 412grams ready to go.
https://www.rc-network.de/threads/fesselflug-fesselflugzeuge-foto-thread.152665/page-10
BTW I have NO knowledge about current rules, Deflectors permitted ? or not !.
Peter
GER-1223
FRA-1000-42
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Les wrote:
Trying to find settings that give some decent speed and lappage, yet keep the engine warm enough not to lose it on a pit stop glide, are certainly more difficult to obtain with an F2CN than with a fully cowled F2C model (at least for me).
Like 20 years ago,
all C.M.B.L Landres F2CN teams used to fly the Vorobiev front ex Diesel.
To keep the engine thermally happy, ALL models were flown with Aluminum sheet Deflectors.
Without , these motors would NOT reach their optimal operating temperature.
JPPerett Landres once told me, these engines must run real hot.
The fastest engines (all identical) were those with the longest operating hours.
My almost new engine is still a long way from reaching its peak performance.
Pics @ post #183 , "Racer#5" , 412grams ready to go.
https://www.rc-network.de/threads/fesselflug-fesselflugzeuge-foto-thread.152665/page-10
BTW I have NO knowledge about current rules, Deflectors permitted ? or not !.
Peter
GER-1223
FRA-1000-42
Peter I don't think any fairing over the engine is legal here in F2CN. Maybe F2F in France. We were using O rings over the cylinder fins to keep the heat in the motor.
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I don't get this event. Is it supposed to be an intro to F2C? If you can buy one and you can buy an F2C what's the difference, price? The difference is how you fuel it?
I think this started as a simpler form of F2C but looking at that plane vacuum bagged and CNCed it's moving out of the average builders realm and closer to F2C complexity.
Another set of rules that didn't consider the development possibilities.
Motorman 8)
I should probably let the experts comment, but here goes. F2C uses a higher performance spec motor and props ($$$). The fuel used in F2C is also more exotic than the basic diesel in F2CN. From what I have heard, the F2CN is more forgiving for a novice flyer and pitman. An F2C is running 17/18s 10 lap segments, 2 to 3 seconds faster than an F2CN.
The F2CN plane Vova sold me was pretty reasonably priced considering the quality of the product. I think even the best builder would be hard pressed to build one this nice. When you consider the cost of materials, fixtures involved and especially the time to build it, it was a bargain. I can't wait to race (pit) this plane.
Even my porky homebuilt F2CN that Bill flew for me at the contest at Whittier (and won) was a blast. I hope we see more F2CN planes at future races.
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I got to see and fly this model a couple of weeks ago. Beautifully done, flies great, best clocking 19.6 sec. Interestingly, the fuel that day was 60% kerosene, 30% ether. LOTS of laps. Not surprisingly, it took a while to warm up. Perhaps a bit more DII next time...
Bill Bischoff