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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Rat Racing and Team Racing => Topic started by: Fred Quedenfeld jr on March 14, 2022, 04:31:37 PM
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When racing was flown on 52 foot
was it 51 ft 6 in to 52 ft 6 in
or 52 ft to 53 ft????
thanks Fred Q
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When racing was flown on 52 foot
was it 51 ft 6 in to 52 ft 6 in
or 52 ft to 53 ft????
thanks Fred Q
Fred, as I recall, we never used "52 foot" lines. The nominal line length was always 52'6", and the tolerances were +/- 6". Hence 52'-53'. Not sure if AMA rules from "back then" were specified this way, just my recollection.
BTW, that is the current specification for Dallas Sport Goodyear as well as several other events I've found.
PS: The FAI rules for F2C specify 15.92 meters with a -0mm/+25mm tolerance, essentially 52'2.77" -0/+1". A lot tighter than our typical AMA specifications.
Bill
Edit to add: NW Clown (SJAM, Florida as well) specified 52'+/- 6". The original NCLRA Clown event was also 52'+/-6", of course now 60'+/-6".
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BILL'S GOT IT RIGHT only for racing speed was 52'6'' +/- 0
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SCAR Goodyear: 52' 6" +/-6"
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Brodak Clown 51' 6" to 52' 6" How many laps can a Brodak clown get in 7.5 minutes, call it 150?
That's about 3 laps difference between the min and max line length. Nothing to sneeze at.
Motorman :(
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One foot out of 52 equals one second out of 52.
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Brodak Clown 51' 6" to 52' 6" How many laps can a Brodak clown get in 7.5 minutes, call it 150?
That's about 3 laps difference between the min and max line length. Nothing to sneeze at.
Motorman :(
Brodak Clown Race line length has always been "wrong". 52'-6" +/- 6" is really 52' to 53'. But we just make the lines a little over 51'-6" and live with it.
130 laps is a pretty good qualifying score and 260 laps in the 15 minute final. 239 laps would win in sportsman class.
Note: They have Sportsman and Expert classes in Foxberg and Clown Race. The classes are based on past performance. So if you have not competed at The Brodak before you would be in Sportsman class unless you volunteer for Expert.
I looked it up for you. The sportsman/expert break is 124 laps for 7.5 minutes in Clown and 7:00 for 100 laps in Foxberg.
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Thanks for the numbers. Are the Brodak 15's competitive at all?
The other thing, the minimum spraybar is .146" so the OS Max spraybar is no good at .138"?
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People use OS LA 15's all the time with standard OS spray bars.
From what I've seen, it's an uphill battle to get a Brodak 15 to equal an OS LA 15. The OS LA is the way to go in BOTH Foxberg and Clown.
I'm sure somebody will chime in in favor of the Brodak engines. OK, fine, bring it on.
Clown racing requires a suction fuel system and limits the fuel to one ounce. So an oversize intake would be a gas hog that gets a few more MPH at the cost of an extra pit stop. If I were running the show (which I am not) I would ignore intake size altogether, which was the rule before it became a two engine event.
The beige & maroon plane in the lower picture was my first attempt at the event. I built it in three weeks and did 251 laps in 15 minutes the first time I flew it.
The upper picture is the same plane refinished and retrofitted with an LA15 when they changed the rules. The yellow plane holds the standing record of 263 laps set in 2012. The LA 15 did a better score than the Nelson model, which was a major factor in motivating the current engine limit.
Incidentily, when timed for a standing 16 laps, like a Perky, the OS did 77 MPH and the Nelson did 91 MPH.
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Those Koyosho 7-4 are good props. You know the rules don't say anything about props, must be open.
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Brodak limits airplane design, engines, and house fuel.
You have the freedom to select props and design your own fuel tank in Clown.
In Foxberg you are limited to Dubro or Sullivan 2 ounce clunk tanks, but you can modify them.
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Boy, did this thread ever go off the tracks! >:(
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Amen brother!
Boy, did this thread ever go off the tracks! >:(
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The OP got his answer in reply #1 then we started talking about clown racing and showing off our planes. Sounds like any conversation that would happen at a club meeting or contest.
Hey what's faster in the air two 1" wheels or one 2" wheel?
Motorman :(
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I've done it both ways. I think the airspeed is equal.
I like two wheels because it avoids the issues of leadouts, the wingtip and the tailplane hitting the ground. Remember, this is on grass, not a paved circle.
I use wing gear, not the wishbones that always get bent out.
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The manual says the LA 15 makes .4hp @ 17,000 I guess that's what it should do on the ground since it will get dragged down by wind and traffic.
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I've done it both ways. I think the airspeed is equal.
I like two wheels because it avoids the issues of leadouts, the wingtip and the tailplane hitting the ground. Remember, this is on grass, not a paved circle.
I use wing gear, not the wishbones that always get bent out.
Was there EVER any kitted version of the PDQ Clown with wing-mounted landing gear?
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Was there EVER any kitted version of the PDQ Clown with wing-mounted landing gear?
That's a tough question. I've never seen either a kit or a set of kit plans. Maybe somebody could come up with one and try to get everybody else disallowed. As it has been working at The Brodak since 2004, people get along with a lot of variations of The Flying Clown.
The ad doesn't show any wheels. The rules say one 2" wheel or two 1" wheels, with no verbage about the landing gear design.
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people get along with a lot of variations of The Flying Clown.
As it should be.
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Was there EVER any kitted version of the PDQ Clown with wing-mounted landing gear?
I checked out your rules on your site.
Landing gear:
Wheels must be a minimum of 1" diameter
Two wheel gear is required.
Minimum wheel separation is 5"
Only wire gear permitted, diameter not specified. Extra wire bracing is allowed.
Note: Local rules may provide for other configurations which shall be published in advance of any local competition.
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Paul,
The overarching rule covers it:
"The only aircraft allowed is the PDQ Flying Clown or faithful replica."
The way to comply with this rule is to: get a set of plans made up to document this design; or, buy a kit that is generally been accepted as a reproduction of sufficient accuracy to comply. This is not an event where you get to design from scratch, and so the rules are not set up to tell you how to build a compliant racer without the plans or a compliant kit.
To wit, no PDQ Clowns had wing-mounted gear, retracts, flaps, metal pans, engine cowlings, etc. Rather than spell out every possible permutation, and end up with an encyclopedia of rules, just follow the overarching rule. And, if lawyering instead of actual racing is the goal, then remember rule number 9:
"Other Notes: The event director may disqualify any entrant who is not in keeping with the spirit or intent of this racing event."
Race. Have fun. Don't be the Smokin' Eunuch.....
Dave
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I'll remember that if I ever build one for The Nats.
You won't find a plan with a one-wheel landing gear either, but those are welcome and accepted.
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Paul, don't feel bad, when they first made the event, on a different forum, I wanted to put a cheek cowl on mine like the original picture on the box. Since nobody else had one, they quickly made an actual rule against cheek cowls to spite me. More than twice I've had friends come back from the nats with stories if you're not in the clique they find some little picky things. I hope things never get that stupid at the Brodak meet.
Motorman 8)
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Paul,
You're not even reading what you wrote. You keep vacillating back and forth between Brodak rules and NCLRA rules. And it seems to confuse you and give you further reason to say things that don't make sense.
In my experience, the Nats unofficial events are run with NCLRA rules, as published--which you quoted just a couple of posts ago--and two wheel gear, just like the PDQ kit, is required. And then you immediately complained about allowing single wheels. Who flew a mono-gear at the Nats? When? And was there an exception to the rules published beforehand? I'd like to know, because I've not seen this before.
Dave
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for as long as i can remember the North East has allowed two 1 in or one 2 in wheels as they fly off of grass as dose Brodak. that is the only part of the country that uses one wheel that i know of,
the only one know of being DQed at a nats for improper equipment was my self something about a full pipe not being legal in mouse 1 i hat those cliques.
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Paul,
You're not even reading what you wrote. You keep vacillating back and forth between Brodak rules and NCLRA rules. And it seems to confuse you and give you further reason to say things that don't make sense.
In my experience, the Nats unofficial events are run with NCLRA rules, as published--which you quoted just a couple of posts ago--and two wheel gear, just like the PDQ kit, is required. And then you immediately complained about allowing single wheels. Who flew a mono-gear at the Nats? When? And was there an exception to the rules published beforehand? I'd like to know, because I've not seen this before.
Dave
The root of the discussion was what to build for The Brodak Fly In. It wasn't me who got into the customs of Muncie.