Of your list of restrictions, I think you can accomplish your goal by simply limiting fuel systems to suction only.

Dave

...   And shutoffs should be required on all racing planes in my opinion for safety.   They are not that hard to set up.  Just my thoughts.

In SOCAL we also thought that shutoffs were a good idea for all classes for safety reasons, so we made it a local option rule.  They can only be used in the "non-shutoff" classes in case of emergency, line tangles, etc.  It's up to the CD to decide afterwards if a re-fly is justified.  So far so good we haven't had to put it to the test ever since we made the rule.   Any tangles have been over so quick the shutoffs weren't able to be used, yup the shutoffs were in the wreackage.  The only minus I've found is that since use during a race for any other reason is a DQ, an inadvertent use has cost us DQs at least once. i.e zoom on takeoff due to wind gust, quick down elevator to recover by the pilot, DQ!

Who said anything about mouse, I'm talking about class 2 Goodyear. I don't think beginning Jrs know how to easily make a shut off. What shut off do you have for a reed valve? If a 1/2a gets loose you can hit it with a fly swatter.

Just trying to put together an inexpensive easy to build and fly package where you don't have custom made anything, no treasure hunt or have to deal with cottage industry crazies. Glue 4 sticks of wood together, paint it, bolt on hardware and go flying.

I haven't got price info on engines yet which is why I'm thinking plain bearing would be cheaper so maybe someone could school me on that. Aren't the BB engines close to $200.   

MM

You mention reed valves and that sent me thinking Cox engines which are 1/2A.   

The whole concept of 1/2A has gone by the wayside.  Back in the day:

Babe Bee $3.95
Black Widow $5.95
TeeDee  $7.95

And they were all high quality California (of the former USA) products.  

Now these engines are 10x+ the price and one-third the quality.   Today's "1/2A's" are $150 and higher and have more pwer than an old 19.  

The entry level engine of the 21st century is the LA15 as used in Brodak Clown Racing.

ps: I've been doing reed valve 1/2A racing, and enjoying it, for the last 25 years.  My stuff is pretty well shot with no spares on the horizen.

I built the little "Ole Tiger" back in 1974 and it's still flyable today.  I also used the simple trainer in a "no design" reed valve race and the Skyray in a "Skyray" race.  I've got it covered, airframewise.

If I dig deep I can still put together a reed valve engine which I call a "Black Widow" if I need to.  

Problem #1 is that very few others can get an engine together and I end up winning by default.

Problem #2 is that there is no STOCK ENGIBNE rule and somebody (probably on the left coast) made a reed value backend for a Russian combat engine and blew everybody out.

Problem #2 is that there is no STOCK ENGINE rule and somebody (probably on the left coast) made a reed valve backend for a Russian combat engine and blew everybody out.

I think the late Wayne Trivin of Florida was messing with reed valve conversions before the the Cyclon conversions came about. So...I think the idea originated on the east coast. At any rate, I don't believe there are more than 3 reed conversion Cyclons in existence, and I've only seen 2 reed conversions of any kind raced at the Nat's in the past several years. The fact that they exist seems to bother people more than the fact they are seldom used in competition.

Les

If you want to slam the door with authority...then get your rule proposal ready to be sent in to the AMA at the appropriate time. My point was that these reed valve conversions of Cyclons etc. have not killed off Mouse racing in reality, only in theory.

Les

The working alternative is to ignore the AMA Rule Book and fly local events by local rules.

One thing that bothers me about the Goodyear class, et al, is that they limit you to Goodyear or F1 shapes.

I bet you could get some people into racing by allowing warbird or Reno Unlimited class shapes. Mustangs, Spitfires and Bearcats, anyone?

http://coxengines.ca/

Yep, new 1/2A engines are real expensive and completely unavailable...

Dave

IMO Mouse I is pretty much a COX .049 class.  The bad part is getting a good one.  From what I've experienced you need a box of parts and you need to mix and match until you get a good one that works well on that particular day.

There are two suppliers that I know of for Cox parts:
   xenalook.com from Canada.  I've gotten lots of parts from them, very nice people to deal with.
   Coxinternational.com somewhere on the East Coast.  I've had the same experience with them.

Google both, you'll find them.

IMO, the finicikyness of Cox reed valve engines is what has basically killed 1/2A racing.  People just don't want to be bothered with the constant tinkering, same with F2C. 

If .049 engines are finicky, what is stopping local classes from going for .09, or .10, with some limiting factor that keeps things cheap and simple?

I remember a Scale Racing class that was developed in Florida in the early '60s.  Plain bearing .15s (K&B GH .15 was popular) and the planes were profile Goodyear racers.  Cosmic Wind, Shoestring, etc..  Very simple and the planes had to be painted as a racer giving it some scale connection. Plank wings, very simple models.

This seems it could be very popular now using he O.S. .15LA possibly, as the required engine.  Of course I would allow basically any plain bearing .15 other than special production racing engines.

I do not know if this class is still on the books.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

OK u want your cake and eat it to.. YOU say no custon modified reed valve enginnes than turn around and talk about putting a CS crank in the PICO .that sounds like a custom engine to me.   i have most of waynes custon reed valve engines including his first one that we got 3rd the first time we used it.   there are at least 4 cyclon reed convesions out there ,Holland has one or 2 done by Wayne  and i have 3 that i did that Hallas and i use. they are so much easier to use than the cox's that i will nwver go back to a cox. i watch flyers show up with two or 3 cox engines and not get one of them to run   ,the exception to that is McCollum/lee   and Paul G  .ask them how old thier engines are and i think they are using parts from the 60's and 70's. i have incorparated shut off's on our cyclones worrk great .saved our plane and gave us a 1st place at the 20010 nats.

  if we cant get people to come out with the dozens of 1/2 A's that are floating around ,how are we going to get them to build new ones.  i really like the scale racing idea but not the Cox idea. one thought is that there is plenty of norvels on Ebay and they run good

District VIII and Topeka have been flying "Sport Goodyear" also called "ClassII Scale Race" in Topeka for at least 15 years. Requirements are basically a profile of a Goodyear Racer, .15 bushed engine, (except Fox non-bushed engines are allowed and they pretty well are the norm). For a while the OS 15 was used, too. Fox 15s are still in production, about 75$ new, all their parts are still available from Fox.. No hot-gloves allowed, 10% fuel, 52 ft. lines and you're all set to race. Shutoffs are allowed.

To get an idea of what they look like, I've pictured my "Polecat", designed by Mike Greb. There are about three more "Polecats", including Mike's. Bill Bischoff flies the "OHM Special", "Lil Quickies" are popular with Melvin Schuette and Kevin Seaton.

Phil Dunlap and I have campaigned this very same airplane for about twelve years, they are very robust.

they are talking about a 1/2A event.

I thought this was about a fun low tech event that might stir up interest with the kids.

For that I would not worry too much about engine size. Among the important keywords, I'd include: Available, Affordable, and Reliable. It has to be easy to operate.