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Author Topic: Flying fool 45  (Read 1883 times)

Offline pat king

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Flying fool 45
« on: December 28, 2013, 03:38:10 PM »
This is a modern, laser cut kit for A 45 size version of the Flying Fool. The kit comes with all laser cut parts to build the airplane you see in the plans. The CAD plans have full size templates of all the parts. It has a 48 wingspan and 590 square inch wing area. The airplane is a good platform for a .45 to .53 engine. The kit contains all the laser cut parts and stick/sheet wood to build the airplane including partially formed leading edges. It does not contain any control system parts. The kit does contain the aluminum main gear. If you like the looks of the Flying fool and want an airplane that flies better than the original you should look at this one. The front end has a removable cowl to cover an inverted engine. The kit will need an R/C type firewall engine mount. A DuBro 6 oz. tank will fit in the tank compartment. The bellcrank is suspended. The first kits will sell for $170.00 delivered in the lower 48 states. I will be ordering the first kits on Monday the 13th of January.
Pat King
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Offline pat king

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 10:19:42 AM »
Bump up
Pat King
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2017, 10:07:10 AM »
I'm enclosing a few pictures of Pats Flying fool. This is the original version and the 45 is basically the same construction as this one. It has much better flying characteristics then the original Sterling version and the construction is lighter and stronger than the original. Incidentally this one is a good flyer with an surprisingly good glide. Normal sport stunts are well within its flying capabilities. I'm sure that pats 45 sized version will be a really decent stunter and just might surprise all of us.

Dennis



« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 02:43:33 PM by dennis lipsett »

Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 02:32:09 AM »
A question you are eminently qualified to answer.  I've mentioned the scaled up Flying Fool I built.  I added flaps and throttle to mine.  It's otherwise a direct scale up.   Flying wise though it's quite disappointing. Pitch response is terrible. This plane can't spell loop. Elevator area was increased a little more than direct scale up and has 43deg of travel. Flaps are mostly top wing only and have 30 deg travel.
As it stands my CG is 2" aft of LE of top wing.  This is with1.25oz on the tail.   
Where is the CG on your design, and how does it perform in stunt?  At this point I've incrimentally increased weight on tail from none to 1.25 oz. CG has moved from 1" to 2" aft.  Pitch response is unchanged. Very sluggish.  At this point I am wondering if the problem isn't a conflict between the flaps and the elevator causing it.

Ideas? 

Gary
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 08:09:54 PM »
A question you are eminently qualified to answer.  I've mentioned the scaled up Flying Fool I built.  I added flaps and throttle to mine.  It's otherwise a direct scale up.   Flying wise though it's quite disappointing. Pitch response is terrible. This plane can't spell loop. Elevator area was increased a little more than direct scale up and has 43deg of travel. Flaps are mostly top wing only and have 30 deg travel.
As it stands my CG is 2" aft of LE of top wing.  This is with1.25oz on the tail.   
Where is the CG on your design, and how does it perform in stunt?  At this point I've incrimentally increased weight on tail from none to 1.25 oz. CG has moved from 1" to 2" aft.  Pitch response is unchanged. Very sluggish.  At this point I am wondering if the problem isn't a conflict between the flaps and the elevator causing it.

Ideas? 

Gary


Ditch the flaps. You never should have flaps on the top wing . The kit does not have the right moments for flaps either. CG is usually even with the leading edge of the bottom wing, measured from the top wing. The prototype has an Enya 35BB in it and it will inside loop, wingover, fly inverted and do lazy eights. it is not a pattern model and it is suicide if you try to do an outside square loop.

Offline pat king

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2017, 08:49:29 PM »
The Flying Fool 45 is 1.41 times the size of the Flying Fool. That gives it twice the wing area of the Flying Fool. At 20% MAC the C.G. is .10" aft of the leading edge of the bottom wing. that is 2 1/16" behind the leading edge of the top wing.
Dennis is right about the flaps, they need to go. When you give the airplane up elevator the flaps deflect downward. If there was no elevator the flaps would exert a downward pitch moment on the airplane. They act much like an elevator on the back edge of a combat wing. The elevator must generate enough force in the pitch up direction to overcome the down pitch force of the flaps plus enough to cause the airplane to pitch up. 43 degrees is way too much elevator throw. At full throw the enlarged elevator is doing a lot to slow the airplane. Reduce the elevator throw to 25 degrees up and down. The airplane will never be a precision aerobatic airplane, but the Flying fool 45 will do inside and outside loops, inverted flight, wingovers, and lazy eights. It is designed as a sport airplane, tweak the controls on your airplane and see if she will not give you a lot of fun flights.

Pat
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Offline pat king

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 09:02:36 PM »
Correction on the location of the C.G. The numbers above are for the original Flying Fool.
The starting point for the Flying Fool 45 C.G. is .10" behind the leading edge of the bottom wing, that puts it 2.9" behind the leading edge of the top wing.

Pat
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Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 03:28:04 PM »
Ok, now that I remember where this post was....lol
Went downstairs and was toying with adding weight on the tail to see what it took to move the CG. At 3oz on the tail (set atop the stab at the end of the fuse) the CG with empty tank moved to about 2.6" from LE of top wing.  I'm hesitant to stick that much weight on, but should this be ok?  As I mentioned in my PM to you I'm considering swapping the Thunder Tiger 46 (4.15 sec laps at full throttle, 5 sec at about 2/3 throttle with decent power in lazy wingovers) with a K&B 40 I have. Before the addition of tail weight the whole thing was just over 50oz. This would take almost 3oz off the nose.  Or I can just fly it as is and chalk it all up to a learning exercise.
Thoughts guys??
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Offline pat king

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Re: Flying fool 45
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 05:00:24 PM »
Gary,
The Fool is a cool looking airplane. You must remember I am very partial to multi wing airplanes. Unless you are tired of working with it, I would work down the list to make it a good flying airplane. Try the 3 oz. with the existing engine, if that helps I would try the lighter engine with less or no tail weight to improve flight performance even more.

Pat
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