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Author Topic: Who sells white pigment?  (Read 1447 times)

Offline kevin king

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Who sells white pigment?
« on: August 07, 2022, 11:59:01 PM »
Can anyone give me an exact type of description to help aid me in the search for white dope-compatible pigment? There seems to be different kinds and i want to ensure its the type thats compatible with dope. Also suggestions on where to buy it. Paint and autobody stores used to be the place but that was back in the olden days. What do i ask for? Just say i want to buy an acrylic lacquer based white pigment? It should also come with some type of an emulsifier shouldnt it? Seem like an item that you cant simply by off the shelf. I will call the local auto paint stores in my city but I will most likely leave empty handed. Last time i asked them for pigment they didnt know what i was talking about. I also have connections in the cabinet industry that can still custom make lacquer colors, and know they have the raw pigments, and if i knew exactly what i needed i could ask them. Is it the same as the automotive pigment? I just sprayed a couple of airplanes with white Randolph Dope and was not impressed with the poor coverage. There is not enough pigment and too much clear in the mix. Thats fine if dont spray clear on top because its a nice and glossy white but i prefer the glossy clear on TOP of the finish not underneath it. I had a friend tell me it must be 'Organic White' and thats the extent of my info.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2022, 07:55:28 AM »
  Maybe try contacting Randolph's with the same question. Supposedly, that's what Brodak dope is, Randolph's with extra pigment repackaged as Brodaks. I have no experience with adding other pigments.
  Type at you later,
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2022, 09:19:35 AM »
Can anyone give me an exact type of description to help aid me in the search for white dope-compatible pigment?

  I would just get some toner  from a local automotive paint store and try that. Or, just use the automotive paint (toner and medium) and forget about the color dope. I will ask Jim if it works in dope.

    Brett

Online Jim Svitko

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2022, 06:20:26 PM »
Maybe titanium dioxide power (white pigment), available at art supply stores and other outlets.

Offline kevin king

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2022, 12:35:41 AM »
Hi Dan waiting to hear back from Randolph. Thanks.
 Thank you Brett and Jim.  I forgot that i did buy some yellow pigment from a paint rep that i know in the custom cabinet industry. Akzo Nobel i think is the paint brand. High quality stuff designed to work on wood. It worked really well so i think that will wind up being my best bet. The price was very reasonable and its available locally. Also contacted an autobody paint supply company and they said they can mix custom paints, which tells me they must have pigment, but he didnt want to sell it to me.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 10:23:15 AM by kevin king »

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2022, 08:44:07 AM »
One of our local guys (Randy Powell, who may weigh in at some point) gets custom-mixed colors from his local paint store.  Apparently the color-mixing machine will dump the powder into an empty can just fine, then you can take it home and add clear.

I've called local stores and inquired about price -- and based on that, not gone through with the actual purchase.
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2022, 10:46:10 AM »
How much pigment can you put in dope before it won't work? Did you stir the can good?

Offline Istvan Travnik

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2022, 04:01:04 PM »
Yes, the Titanium-dioxide is the main part of the white pigments. (You can add some Magnesium-dioxide, too, but not essential).
I think Titanium-dioxide is available in any chemicals's store, in the States, like everywhere. It is very cheap.
But...
It is not enough to simply mix it into any lacquer-type base (like dope, etc.), even for hours, since Titanium-dioxide likes to remain together, making smaller-bigger granules.
First step must be to make a paste with relative few dope, by rubbing. You can it make easily, at low rpm, with a soft plastic "tongue" assembled onto mixer's  "T" element. Be sure, this tongue can touch the bottom of the mixing can.   When you feel the paste as smooth like cream, or thick honey, you can add more dope (or other lacquer), step-by step, drop-by drop.
Istvan
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 02:31:30 PM by Istvan Travnik »

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2022, 05:43:36 PM »
First step must be to make a paste with relative few dope, by rubbing. You can it make easily, at low rpm, with a soft plastic "tongue" assembled onto mixer's  "T" element. When you feel the paste as smooth like cream, or thick honey, you can add more dope (or other lacquer), step-by step, drop-by drop.
Istvan

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Offline kevin king

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2022, 01:14:10 AM »
How much pigment can you put in dope before it won't work? Did you stir the can good?
Not sure who youre asking the question to, and I am not sure how much pigment to add because there seems to be more than one type of product available. I guess would be 20%. As for shaking the can, yes it was shaken and stirred.

Offline kevin king

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2022, 01:16:50 AM »
...Quick update: A friend contacted the maker  of Randolph  dope and apparently they also sell the pigments
« Last Edit: August 14, 2022, 06:00:11 PM by kevin king »

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2022, 08:49:33 PM »
Locally, we go to Spencer's Aircraft to buy Randolph dope. They mix all the standard colors while you wait, and I don't believe they will mix non-standard colors. They might be convinced to add extra pigment...maybe...cash in advance or under the table sort of deal. Perhaps you have a similar aircraft supplier nearby?   H^^ Steve
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Offline kevin king

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2022, 09:54:44 AM »
Locally, we go to Spencer's Aircraft to buy Randolph dope. They mix all the standard colors while you wait, and I don't believe they will mix non-standard colors. They might be convinced to add extra pigment...maybe...cash in advance or under the table sort of deal. Perhaps you have a similar aircraft supplier nearby?   H^^ Steve
Your exactly right steve. It helps to know someone.

Offline kevin king

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2022, 10:26:32 AM »
After chasing many dead ends the answer for me was already there: The cabinet industry uses Lacquer based paint. Dope is Lacquer with added plasticizers. A few years ago i asked our paint rep for some yellow pigment. It was relatively inexpensive and extremely concentrated. I added it to Sig yellow and sprayed a P40 Warhawk with it. Very happy with the results. I'm sure you've already seen. Forget about the autobody paint supply guys, most could not tell you the 3 ingredients of Lacquer paint, let alone sell you one of the three. Unless you know someone it would be hard to get.
As for Randolph, as far as I know, the only off the shelf pigment that they will sell you is the Randolph concentrated silver paste,  because they know auto primer has Zero UV protection on a wood and fabric structure. Again I think you would have to know someone at Randolph to get the white pigment. However, After hearing back from Bill Byles, he stated he never found a need for extra pigment in Randolph Dope. After putting the Banshee out in the sun I can kind of agree. The white is extremley bright and fully opaque, and i only picked up one ounce of weight when it dried. Ha, I'm sure there is still yellow pigment in the washroom fan vent at the apartment i sprayed it at.  LL~


« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 11:04:52 AM by kevin king »


Offline kevin king

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2022, 01:27:27 AM »
Universal. Interesting. 40 dollars an ounce though. I will stick with the Akzo Nobel stuff.  But thanks for finding another option!



Offline Alan Resinger

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2022, 07:14:32 PM »
I bought white pigment from Spencer Aircraft.  This was some years ago and I was buying some quarts of Randolph colors and a gallon of clear.  I ask the guy if I could buy some white pigment to add to my white to increase the covering ability of the dope.  Hwanted to know how much I wanted.  I told him enough to mix up with a quart of paint.  He came back with a quart can that was full.  I ask how much that was going to cost and he told me there was nothing in the computer to give him a price so he just charged me the same cost as the quart of white, just under $30.  I paid the bill and left in a hurry. 
Don't add more than 2oz to a full quart of white as otherwise adhesion will suffer.

Offline kevin king

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2022, 09:57:39 PM »
 Haha paid the bill and left in a hurry! ,😂 Nice score Al! 👍

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Who sells white pigment?
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2022, 08:59:18 AM »
Kevin,
Akzo Nobel and white...too funny! They have a plant 30 minutes away. And everything around it is white. I never bothered to find out why, but local lore has it they pay to have vehicles repainted any time there is an "unplanned discharge."

I doubt I could drive up and ask for a baggy full. But now I'm going to dig deeper just out of curiosity.  D>K


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