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Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Ken Culbertson on November 16, 2018, 11:58:46 AM
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I am covering my 2019 PA toy with Polyspan (Brodak Version). It will be electric so I would prefer to use OTC products to finish it. I plan to use Rustoleum for the final finish but I could be convinced to use anything I can get OTC that does not require credit references. What can I use to stick it down and prepare the ship. Sorry, I have been a Silkspan & Dope devotee my whole life. Getting supplies at Walmart is new to me!
Also for those or you who have used Brodak Polyspan, is it better to apply a pre-finish and will Balsarite help?-
Ken
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If you browse the this part of the forum you will find I use a product called "MODPODGE" from the arts and crafts store. They have several version and the one I use is the matte finish. You bruh it on the perimeter of what you are covering and let it dry. Brush it as thin as you can. Cut poly-span to size and used a monokote type iron to adhere the material. Don't slide the iron across the material. Then from there on the finish is up to you. For me I then iron on a mylar covering similar to SLC from the Corehouse. If you want the poly-span type finish with dope put the Mylar/SLC on first. But you have to buff the mylar/SLC to s dull finish before the poly-span goes on. Even if you use another type finish than dope it will take less material. Double covering like this makes for a very durable covering. Remember it takes practice, patience and time. D>K
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I agree with Doc on the use of Mod-Podge. I've used it for years on both RC and UC planes. It's water soluble and very user friendly. I found through trial and error that I only need to apply one coat to the balsa surface. It soaks in and makes you think it is not going to work, but the heat from the iron will activate it and the material will stick well. I've used it to attach Polyspan, Monocote, Ultracoat and various other coverings, but have never tried silkspan.
Paul
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I agree with Doc on the use of Mod-Podge. I've used it for years on both RC and UC planes. It's water soluble and very user friendly. I found through trial and error that I only need to apply one coat to the balsa surface. It soaks in and makes you think it is not going to work, but the heat from the iron will activate it and the material will stick well. I've used it to attach Polyspan, Monocote, Ultracoat and various other coverings, but have never tried silkspan.
Paul
Is the Mod-Podge better than Balsarite? My main question was what OTC stuff to use to stick down polyspan but I should expand to building up the coverage. Can you use lacquer's or polyurethane then finish with enamel? My wife is quite allergic to dope so I have avoided it at all costs. MonoKote and electric motors have probably saved our marriage but I want a real finish on my PA ship for next year.
Ken
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Is the Mod-Podge better than Balsarite? My main question was what OTC stuff to use to stick down polyspan but I should expand to building up the coverage. Can you use lacquer's or polyurethane then finish with enamel? My wife is quite allergic to dope so I have avoided it at all costs. MonoKote and electric motors have probably saved our marriage but I want a real finish on my PA ship for next year.
Ken
Mod-Podge does not stick better than Balsarite, but is much easier to use since it is water based. I have always had trouble keeping Balsarite soluble in the can for any length of time so I quit using it. After ironing down the covering, I use Minn-Wax lacquer to seal the Polyspan and build up with Dupli-Color filler/primer. The lacquer does not dissolve the Mod-Podge. I have also used Minn-Wax lacquer with talcum powder with good success, but applying with a brush is a pain. I tested a sample piece using the lacquer to stick the Polyspan, but it required heating with an iron. It did not dissolve when brushed through the covering like dope does. It did not stick nearly as well as Mod-Podge. Have never tried polyurethane for covering. I have used Rustoleum over Minn-Wax lacquer/Dupli-Color primer many times with excellent results. Hope this helps.
Paul
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Mod-Podge does not stick better than Balsarite, but is much easier to use since it is water based. I have always had trouble keeping Balsarite soluble in the can for any length of time so I quit using it. After ironing down the covering, I use Minn-Wax lacquer to seal the Polyspan and build up with Dupli-Color filler/primer. The lacquer does not dissolve the Mod-Podge. I have also used Minn-Wax lacquer with talcum powder with good success, but applying with a brush is a pain. I tested a sample piece using the lacquer to stick the Polyspan, but it required heating with an iron. It did not dissolve when brushed through the covering like dope does. It did not stick nearly as well as Mod-Podge. Have never tried polyurethane for covering. I have used Rustoleum over Minn-Wax lacquer/Dupli-Color primer many times with excellent results. Hope this helps.
Paul
Thanks a bunch. I have some Min Wax lacquer and I was hoping it was comparable with Rustoleum. Sad, but I just can't use dope.
Ken
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As always, pretty much everyone is right. There are innumerable schemes to achieve a great finish. You just need to pick the one right for you.
First off, is what level you want to achieve? Fuel proof sport model? Nationals level 20 point?
I am only qualified to speak about a good, durable sport finish. The goal is to keep it light and fuel proof.
First, the nose section and engine mounting holes are sealed with epoxy.
Then I dope carbon veil onto the fuselage.
The wood parts including the veiled fuselage are doped and fiilled with cornstarch filled dope.
The wings are covered with Polyspan adhered with ModPodge. Finally,I apply SLC or parkflyer film over the undoped Polyspan.
The remaining structure is painted with “Painters’ Choice or Klass Kote epoxy.
How you achieve a 20 point finish on a model that can be competitive is a mystery to me.
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Its called Sand paper and lots of dope. I quit trying fo 20 point finishes years ago when a Nobler of mine I hid behind the bush at VSC one year still got me a 12 point appearance, As Larry says the SLC over poly-span makes for a durable finish. If you browse this forum you will see some of my finishes D>K
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As always, pretty much everyone is right. There are innumerable schemes to achieve a great finish. You just need to pick the one right for you.
First off, is what level you want to achieve? Fuel proof sport model? Nationals level 20 point?
I am only qualified to speak about a good, durable sport finish. The goal is to keep it light and fuel proof.
First, the nose section and engine mounting holes are sealed with epoxy.
Then I dope carbon veil onto the fuselage.
The wood parts including the veiled fuselage are doped and filtered with cornstarch filled dope.
The wings are covered with Polyspan adhered with ModPodge. Finally,I apply SLC or parkflyer film over the undoped Polyspan.
The remaining structure is painted with “Painters’ Choice or Klaus Kote epoxy.
How you achieve a 20 point finish on a model that can be competitive is a mystery to me.
I like your method and I think I will try it. One question, I gather that SLC is not a product. I have searched it here but nowhere can I find a posting that doesn't assume that I know what it is! I found out you can iron it on, sand it and paint it but I still am clueless as to what "it" is and where "it" can be acquired other than "phil c" had it back in 2012.
Please forgive my ignorance - Ken
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I like your method and I think I will try it. One question, I gather that SLC is not a product. I have searched it here but nowhere can I find a posting that doesn't assume that I know what it is! I found out you can iron it on, sand it and paint it but I still am clueless as to what "it" is and where "it" can be acquired other than "phil c" had it back in 2012.
Please forgive my ignorance - Ken
SLC film is sold by Phil Cartier. .75mil polyester film. Low temp, iron on film. Not the same as lamination film.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/profile/?u=238 (https://stunthanger.com/smf/profile/?u=238)
http://home.earthlink.net/~philcartier/webcat/pricelist.html
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Not that I would recommend this, but as an example of what you need to watch out for! I went into "Tractor Supply" today...don't usually hang there, but once a year, maybe. I saw they had paint. Spray cans, quart cans, etc. One of the quart cans said "Clear Lacquer" on it, so I picked it up and read the rest of the label. It said it was to be used for a glossy topcoat (ok! fine!) over their "properly applied and cured" enamel. This tells me that they don't know chit about paint, or accuracy in labelling. They did have gallon cans of Lacquer Thinner, Acetone and Naptha, if you need some.
If you have a TSC and want a good giggle, there you go! :P Steve