Author Topic: Trim Tape (Read 1421 times)

Ken Culbertson · « **on:** December 31, 2019, 10:19:55 AM »

I have just finished adding the color to my 2020 PA ship. I am pretty new to "non-dope" finishing so I have a couple of questions. Most of the search material is either very old or doesn't really answer the questions.

#1 Is there a very thin striping tape that I can add to separate the blue from the white. I was lucky to get zero pull or bleed on the wings and stab so I don't need it to cover up a sloppy mask. The Fuselage has some spots that a stripe would save my 70+ year old dexterity and vision would make flicking away those little bleed spots with the #11 unnecessary and repainting where I overflicked A 1/16" stripe really looks good though and if you do it anywhere you really need to do it everywhere. I have considered using monokote stripes but I don't know it will stick at the low heat I would have to use to keep from blistering the Rustoleum. The RC tapes are just too thick.

#2 This is more of a "is this normal" question to those using rattle can because, like me, they are too cheap to buy a good air brush. My "finish" consists of fiberglass or CF on the fuselage/stab covered by "00" silkspan. The wings are polyspan. 4 coats of nitrate non tauting on the fuse and sheeted part of the wing with 2 coats tauting, 2 coats non tauting on the open bays. Sand smooth with 2 coats Rustoleum white primer sanded "baby butt" smooth. Two coats white with 1 thin, one thicker coat of blue. All along the way I am filling the little blemishes with thick paint and re-sanding smooth.

So my question is why does the grain in the polyspan show after each coat but seem to disappear after a couple of days? The paint goes on so thin that it is practically dry when it hits the wing. Also FYI, I use satin finish paint for all but the clear top coat. Personally I think it looks better than gloss period but then I am not the one awarding the points. So, is this normal?

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2019, 11:42:09 AM »

Ken,

I would eventually invest in a double action, inexpensive, air brush and a compressor designed for an air brush.

There are thin stripe tapes available in the automotive industry. Will they be fuel proof? Possibly.

With thin outlines, the area of the thin outline is generally sprayed first. Then you apply the thin stripe tape to cover that color. You mask each side of this thin stripe tape for the other colors. The last tape removed is the thin stripe color.

With that arch, you'll have many pieces of tape. I make masks especially for scallops, that is, the thin stripe is in one piece and scalloped.

Your model looks excellent! You may not be happy with all those pieces of tape overlapping at the ends of each arch? However, not so obvious with a healthy clear coat. Masking both sides to paint the stripe would be time consuming but the results may be worth the time? Difficult at 1/16" but possible. The stripe tapes are straight so you have to curve it nicely, you could keep it away a bit from the blue for the extra thin white stripe using the blue edge as a guide.

You have to be careful applying paint dry, it may not bite as well as expected.

I cannot answer questions about Polyspan except why I don't use it. I use only silk for many reasons. I Like Krylon color better than Rust-o-leum. A choice I've made having used both of them.

If you send me a tracing of an arch, or two, if they are all different, I can cut your stripe tape in an arch in vinyl. You won't be playing with straight tape and the application will be easier and much quicker.

Let me know.

I would only use a 2K automotive clear, and yes, available in an aerosol can. Thank goodness.

BTW. You did a great job with those checks.

Are we seeing front row on the horizon? Looks like it.

CB

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2019, 12:25:14 PM »

Thanks for the advice. Front row is a possibility if I am the only one that shows up and the 10' rule is applied! I just don't have the dexterity or vision to do the really fine detail work anymore. I can get it close but the Cupie Dolls are still safely on the booth shelf. Interesting you would mention Krylon. I like their colors better and I was about to use them until I did a spray test with their version of this blue. It sucked. Even the Rustoleum is a shade darker than my "perfect Sky Blue" but the color is right.

I had to mask the nose by hand. I used 1/8" 3M Blue automotive tape and cut out the parts I didn't need then covered the inside of the white squares with blue masking tape. Getting the squares to flow with the curves and getting the squares to look right around the nose with 2 degrees offset in the nose ring took 2 days. That is so you will know I will NEVER do it that way again!

By the way, the 3M Blue leaves quite a residue when removed. Is there anything that takes it off without also taking off the paint?

ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2019, 02:42:22 PM »

Ken,

You could offset your fuselage one degree and the engine one degree.

I've never had a residue issue using the blue tape and over many years I've used a bunch of it.

Some say they heat the stuff up before they remove it but I'd be careful of that. You could leave a bit of blue from the heat if too hot.

3M makes an adhesive remover sold in aerosol cans. I'd do a test.

You could take masking tape and use it to remove the residue. You do a touch and a quick pull to remove the residue. Gotta be careful not to pull paint.

I mentioned I could help you with outlining those scallops, did you read that?

CB

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2019, 06:45:47 PM »

Thanks - I will try the tape trick. I haven't decided if I am going to add the stripe yet. When I cut the scallops in the contact paper I saved the "negative" part. If I trim it to 1/4" or so I should be able to apply it....or not. I simply hate masking but it is like the reverse wingover, you have to do one before you can fly the fun stuff.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2019, 10:11:13 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on December 31, 2019, 06:45:47 PM

Thanks - I will try the tape trick. I haven't decided if I am going to add the stripe yet. When I cut the scallops in the contact paper I saved the "negative" part. If I trim it to 1/4" or so I should be able to apply it....or not. I simply hate masking but it is like the reverse wingover, you have to do one before you can fly the fun stuff.

Ken

Ken,

I strongly believe that 1/4" may be a bit excessive. You should be able to do an 1/8" easily.

The model will still look great when finished.

CB

Will Hinton · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2020, 08:18:03 AM »

Guys, try using lighter fluid to remove residue. And, as Charles said, try a sample first, but it is basically safe on about everything.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2020, 09:43:32 AM »

Since this is an electric model, any kind of pin strip tape would do since you don't have fuel proofing worries, just need to pick a color. You can even just leave it and fly the model first to get basic trimming out of the way. It doesn't look too bad the way it is. Or since you have black checkers, you could just do a black ink line to separate the colors. It would stand out but still be subtle. I wouldn't go wider that 1/16" with what ever you choose, but black would be my choice for the line/stripe.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
Dan McEntee

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2020, 01:03:32 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on January 01, 2020, 09:43:32 AM

Since this is an electric model, any kind of pin strip tape would do since you don't have fuel proofing worries, just need to pick a color. You can even just leave it and fly the model first to get basic trimming out of the way. It doesn't look too bad the way it is. Or since you have black checkers, you could just do a black ink line to separate the colors. It would stand out but still be subtle. I wouldn't go wider that 1/16" with what ever you choose, but black would be my choice for the line/stripe.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
Dan McEntee

I am really leaning towards no stripes. The mask on the scallops came out far better than I expected and consensus here is that I don't need them. The trim design is patterned after the GeeBee and, even though there weren't any blue ones. Some had thin black lines, some had thick ones but those were mostly models and some had none. It is going to be at least a month and about 20 flights before clear so I will wait.

I am going to get some 1/16" automotive tape and see if it is thin enough to pretty much blend in under clear. I used the RC stuff on my classic and it is really too thick.

Thanks for all the help - Ken

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #9 on:** January 01, 2020, 02:49:49 PM »

There was a Blue and white Gee Bee in the movie,

Rocketeer.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2020, 04:21:03 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 01, 2020, 02:49:49 PM

There was a Blue and white Gee Bee in the movie,

Rocketeer.

I meant real ones. I will have to check that out. I haven't seen the movie.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2020, 06:17:36 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 01, 2020, 04:21:03 PM

I meant real ones. I will have to check that out. I haven't seen the movie.

Ken

The Rocketeer wasn't animated. It was a real Gee Bee Z.

Some years back.

CB

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2020, 07:07:05 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 01, 2020, 06:17:36 PM

The Rocketeer wasn't animated. It was a real Gee Bee Z.

Some years back.

CB

First one was Yellow & Black, second one Black & White, no blue but a cool movie anyway.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2020, 07:39:05 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 01, 2020, 07:07:05 PM

First one was Yellow & Black, second one Black & White, no blue but a cool movie anyway.

Ken

Ken,

The Gee Bee Model D Sportster, was blue and white or blue and tan.

BTW. Your AMA number would be dynamite on the wing in large numbers as seen on the Gee Bee's.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2020, 04:36:59 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 01, 2020, 07:39:05 PM

Ken,

The Gee Bee Model D Sportster, was blue and white or blue and tan.

BTW. Your AMA number would be dynamite on the wing in large numbers as seen on the Gee Bee's.

I found some pictures of a blue "D". Mine is more a cross between a "Z" and "D" without the pants.

Still looking for some really thin 1/16" striping tape. Most of the pix I found have a thin separator line.

Added the AMA big and block like they did "in the day". Looks OK but it doesn't have that "WOW" I was hoping for. Probably too small. Decals are working great.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2020, 05:04:37 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 02, 2020, 04:36:59 PM

I found some pictures of a blue "D". Mine is more a cross between a "Z" and "D" without the pants.

Still looking for some really thin 1/16" striping tape. Most of the pix I found have a thin separator line.

Added the AMA big and block like they did "in the day". Looks OK but it doesn't have that "WOW" I was hoping for. Probably too small. Decals are working great.

Ken

Ken,

If you want WOW! You'll have to look at the photo. LARGE numbers, blue on one wing and a LARGE number on the other.

I can make those numbers and possibly cut the tape in 23" lengths, x 3/32"

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2020, 07:44:30 PM »

Too late for big number "WOW". I need thin striping tape "Ahhha" Lots of tapes out there but none of them tell you how thick they are.

Thinking about giving it a number and putting blue dice on it like the Cleveland GeeBee's.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2020, 07:18:40 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 02, 2020, 07:44:30 PM

Too late for big number "WOW". I need thin striping tape "Ahhha" Lots of tapes out there but none of them tell you how thick they are.

Thinking about giving it a number and putting blue the dice on it.

Ken

A quality opaque vinyl can be .002 or .003. Vinyl that's printed with ink can be as thick as .005. Sometimes a clear layer is applied in most cases to protect the ink.

That small edge bump, like a paint line, made from masking with tape, is just about unnoticeable to the eye.

The ARGO 2, It's "loaded" with cut vinyl like all my models. Tape line bumps aren't all that noticeable.

Masks? Twice the money and much more work at your end. My end also if I use paint masks. I keep everything simple and still manage to get great results.

There's plenty of guys in this Forum who use the vinyl graphics I provide, including NATS winners. They clear right over the vinyl. Worried about that bump edge, board sand the thing between coats of clear and the last coat, as others do. More work. Sure, I send out paint masks also but not as much because guys cut their own now. A good thing actually.

Your model still looks great. This is your own design, correct?

CB

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2020, 08:19:33 AM »

I thought about the block sanding to keep all but the last coat off of the tape. Might just do it. I still wet sand but I am told that is not in vogue any more. I regret not making the AMA Number a decal but it is too late now.

It is my own design inspired by the late Tom Neibuhr's "Top Hat". He was a club member and I ended up with a partially completed wing when he passed. The rest is mine considering that "original" in our evolved PA world is really combining other's ideas into something someone else will borrow and call their own!

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2020, 09:24:49 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 03, 2020, 08:19:33 AM

I thought about the block sanding to keep all but the last coat off of the tape. Might just do it. I still wet sand but I am told that is not in vogue any more. I regret not making the AMA Number a decal but it is too late now.

It is my own design inspired by the late Tom Neibuhr's "Top Hat". He was a club member and I ended up with a partially completed wing when he passed. The rest is mine considering that "original" in our evolved PA world is really combining other's ideas into something someone else will borrow and call their own!

Ken

Tom and I talked many times. A good man and a great modeler. I have a photo someplace of his biplane. I might just look for it.

Wet sanding has been around forever. I should do it but I don't enter contests.
You can load clear on and keep the wet sanding to a minimum but you'll have extra weight. How much?

Ya gotta get the clear flat removing any high and low spots and "orange peel." I get a bit of orange peel with aerosol can colors in places but I dry sand all colors relatively flat before I clear. I use 600 on the colors, clean the model well then apply the vinyl graphics before the final clear coat.

Like I said, I don't enter contests so I don't wet sand the clear.

Your AMA number is painted?

CB

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2020, 10:05:22 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 03, 2020, 09:24:49 AM

Your AMA number is painted?

Unfortunately - yes

Avaiojet · « **Reply #21 on:** January 03, 2020, 10:53:35 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 03, 2020, 10:05:22 AM

Unfortunately - yes

Ken,

What is the white paint?

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2020, 11:39:19 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 03, 2020, 10:53:35 AM

Ken,

What is the white paint?

Rustoleum flat white. It covers better, sands easier, doesn't blush, dings are easier to fix and it looks the same after the clear. Blue is satin, it didn't come in flat. If judges could appreciate the finish I would use satin everywhere, but alas, they don't.

Hopefully someone will chime in and recommend a striping tape.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #23 on:** January 03, 2020, 11:53:47 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 03, 2020, 11:39:19 AM

Rustoleum flat white. It covers better, sands easier, doesn't blush, dings are easier to fix and it looks the same after the clear. Blue is satin, it didn't come in flat. If judges could appreciate the finish I would use satin everywhere, but alas, they don't.

Hopefully someone will chime in and recommend a striping tape.

Ken

I would sand that number off and repaint the area.

I would place large numbers as I suggested, and place a number on the other wing.

As far as the trim tape, I already suggested a 2 ways to get it done. I can make the trim tape.

I also told you how thick the vinyl is, .002 to .003. Auto tape in a roll is probably the same.

Ken,

You've been at this, CL, for quite a while, I had no idea.

BTW. I can send a sample of the tape. I would like to see my stuff on your model.

It'll make a big difference.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #24 on:** January 03, 2020, 01:21:54 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on January 03, 2020, 11:53:47 AM

I would sand that number off and repaint the area.

I would place large numbers as I suggested, and place a number on the other wing.

As far as the trim tape, I already suggested a 2 ways to get it done. I can make the trim tape.

I also told you how thick the vinyl is, .002 to .003. Auto tape in a roll is probably the same.

Ken,

You've been at this, CL, for quite a while, I had no idea.

BTW. I can send a sample of the tape. I would like to see my stuff on your model.

It'll make a big difference.

I am probably going to sand off the number but first I am going to take some top view pictures and get out my drawing gear to see what really looks good. I tried a small sample of silver tape and it looked pretty good. Perhaps gray or maybe another shade of blue. Plenty of time so I don't need to do anything right now. I like the # on the wing (not AMA) and I am probably going to do the dice on the side. Where to put the USA if I do that but the chances of me flying this plane in F2B approach zero so I may just skip it.

I need to put about 20 or so flights on it before I go "Bat SH**" crazy with the finish. I don't want to disprove the old saying "You Can't Polish a Turd" by rubbing one out! The three trim flights and one pattern I did with it in primer tells me that it will get finished.

I may take you up on the trim for the scallops when I get there. I am going to try using a decal just to see if it works. If I clear lock the decal sheet with the same clear I use on the plane it should blend pretty good....or not. That is why you try stuff. Weight is becoming an issue. I am only 2 oz from my max weight of 67. That will give me a wing loading of about 14@ which is borderline heavy but actually lets me go to 69oz. Clear is lighter than color but it ain't helium either.

Ken