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Author Topic: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner  (Read 1292 times)

Online Ken Culbertson

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Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« on: September 29, 2019, 08:45:50 PM »
Can you thin Randolph Nitrate with lacquer thinner?
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 09:22:50 PM »
I know I thinned some older Sig nitrate with lacquer thinner. I keep reading about the bad mojo from doing this, but I haven't had a problem yet. I use cheap Rust-Oleum by the quart.
I'd say pull out an ounce and test it.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2019, 08:01:26 AM »
Can you thin Randolph Nitrate with lacquer thinner?

Exactly what are you using the nitrate for?
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 10:12:55 AM »
Can you thin Randolph Nitrate with lacquer thinner?

  I don't know the answer, but, beware, because all lacquer thinner is not the same, particularly hardware-store thinner. I have gotten two cans of the nominally same thing, same brand, part number, description, can art, that was different. One type would thin K&B Superpoxy primer, the other, it would just curdle it. It also smelled radically different.

   Point being, "lacquer thinner" could mean a lot of different things, and is not a reliable method of identifying a particular product. So even if someone else's works just fine, no telling whether yours will work, even if it is nominally "the same".

      Brett

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 11:54:26 AM »
Exactly what are you using the nitrate for?
Undercoating, filler base, attaching covering.  Final finish most likely rattle can Rustoleum (They have the colors) and clear 2k something someday.

All I really want to know is it I can thin Randolph Nitrate (I have a bout a pint that is too thick to use).  I don't have any more dope in my near future so I don't want to buy a can that will sit on the shelf for a year when I have enough if I can just thin it.  Nobody locally carries nitrate thinner and the price of a can with shipping by itself is simply ridiculous.  I hear you can do it with buterate but what about nitrate.  Non-tauting if it makes a difference.

I am tempted to just use lacquer in place of dope but that little voice keeps saying "DON'T DO IT".  What does it know that I don't?

Ken
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2019, 05:51:02 PM »
  There was an extensive thread on this already in the past year or so. Many posting what they used and had good results with. I bought some Rust-Oleum lacquer thinner and the can just said it was acetone in the ingredients. Another brand or two I bought quarts of said that also. Kleen Strip from Home Depot was mentioned by several notable flyers, and Bill Byles has written much on the subject. Bill restores and paints full size vintage aircraft and really knows the ins and outs for an expert finish, but to do things on the cheap like you need, find that thread I mentioned as I think it covered several brands that were considered "safe." With Nitrate, if it mixes in well on the initial mixing, and stays that way for an extended time, I think you should be OK and just give plenty of time for it to gas off before starting the next layer.
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Online Mike Scholtes

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 09:23:51 PM »
I have used Randolph clear nitrate and butyrate for at least 10 years exclusively. I used Randolph "butyrate thinner" in both nitrate and butyrate with no problems. Now that the thinner has gotten so expensive I have used Kleen Strip with no apparent problems in both nitrate and butyrate. Others have also reported success with the Kleen Strip. I also use Randolph dope retarder, which says it is for both nitrate and butyrate, so it is likely the thinner is chemically appropriate for both kinds of dope.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2019, 04:25:09 PM »
I will use my usual line here. Use the manufacturer's recommended material. Lacquer is tricky at the best of times and is sensitive to heat, cold, humidity and things like spray pressure and material mix. Using materials that are not tested with your paint is taking a risk. Some materials seem to work fine at some temps but will go very wrong at other temps. Same for humidity or pressure changes or a ton of other conditions. I used to use DuPont 3608 with Sig non-taunting all the time, but it wasn't formulated for it and if the conditions wandered even a little outside the dead center range, it would blush or orange peel or have adhesion problems or a lot of other things.

Just a caution. Even if you do a test and it works fine, it might not if conditions change. Lacquer is touchy that way.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 07:33:07 AM »
Undercoating, filler base, attaching covering.  Final finish most likely rattle can Rustoleum (They have the colors) and clear 2k something someday.

All I really want to know is it I can thin Randolph Nitrate (I have a bout a pint that is too thick to use).  I don't have any more dope in my near future so I don't want to buy a can that will sit on the shelf for a year when I have enough if I can just thin it.  Nobody locally carries nitrate thinner and the price of a can with shipping by itself is simply ridiculous.  I hear you can do it with buterate but what about nitrate.  Non-tauting if it makes a difference.

I am tempted to just use lacquer in place of dope but that little voice keeps saying "DON'T DO IT".  What does it know that I don't?

Ken

Ken,

I've never used nitrate on any of my models, It's no longer needed, well, not by me anyway.

Aerosol cans, nice, I like that. I have an Aerosol can Thread over at CFC Graphics vendor's corner. I believe it's an important Thread but there's little interest?

Aerosol cans. Yes, I've NEVER used colored dope and never will. I only use Krylon brand aerosol cans for color.

Krylon dries much quicker than Rustoleum which is one reason I use it. It sticks well, covers well and sands nicely. When the masking tape is removed I've never had Krylon color paint come off with the tape. Never!

My Flite Streak 007 Skyfall was masked for two weeks before I applied another color.

I don't think there will ever be a 100% agreement on what system or products are necessary to use in finishing a model to really good standards.

I have my own system based on "easy" and simplicity. Finish and paint should be the most enjoyable experience in model building and the easiest.

CB

 
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2019, 10:34:38 AM »
Ken...brother you are in Dallas....get thyine ars to Fort Worth

I have a daughter in Hurst... I got my Gallons of Randolph Dope and Thinner I think at Aero Performance a few years back

Thinner was $45 per gallon....yes pricey compared to Home depot mystery lacquer thinners...but today on par with DuPont versions that are KNOWN to work

I have way more than I need and wish you were closer....perhaps next time Wife visits daughter I can send to you some
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Thin Nitrate with lacquer thinner
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2019, 12:35:57 PM »
Ken...brother you are in Dallas....get thyine ars to Fort Worth

I have a daughter in Hurst... I got my Gallons of Randolph Dope and Thinner I think at Aero Performance a few years back

Thinner was $45 per gallon....yes pricey compared to Home depot mystery lacquer thinners...but today on par with DuPont versions that are KNOWN to work

I have way more than I need and wish you were closer....perhaps next time Wife visits daughter I can send to you some
Got it covered.   I got talked down off of the ledge by my local pack of stunt nuts and ordered some from Aircraft Spruce.  I just got to thinking about removing the masking after painting my new toy and having everything down to the clear stuck to the tape and some yellowish orange stuff popping up in the white  ~^ and said ....I can wait till Thursday. LL~

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC


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