stunthanger.com

Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Randy Powell on March 20, 2012, 12:47:00 PM

Title: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 20, 2012, 12:47:00 PM
I've sort of decided that I have a whole stable of planes, most with various problems. Some fixable, some not so much. So for the lost causes, I plan to salvage them and get them out of the rack. For the fixable stuff, I am (gasp!) going to fix them. First up is a refinish of my 3rd Slider. It was a very straight, very light airframe that fell victim to both a local rodent and my heavy finger on the paint trigger. So, I plan to strip it back down to bare wood, fix a couple of things and refinish it. Same for another plane I have (a USA-1 variant). Another plane I have needs new flaps and a home. I may look for a suitable recipient (Perhaps Shultzie).

So, no new planes, but some fixes in the works. This will all be after I fix the Avenger.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 20, 2012, 12:59:22 PM
So Randy, are you doing a strip , repair, and refinish on the Avenger, or just make repairs as needed,,
inquireing minds want to know,,

Not sure what will go next in my world,, I know finishing the 109 is a priority,,

Good to see you tidy up the stable,, maybe have a couple back ups for those "moments"
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Bill Little on March 20, 2012, 01:43:59 PM
HI Brother Randy,

With the present state I am in, I have thought about doing the same thing.  Some say it is just easier to build a new plane, but I don't think so.  With "Dad's Stripper", the old finish comes off easily!  So I have a couple of models in line for stripping and repairs (will even lighten a few up by doing this!).  One is a Sterling Spitfire that is well built but 40 years old.  Never got too many flights on it, but will look over the controls, make the tank removable, add adj. LOs, tip weight box, etc..  The other is the Spacehound which needs new covering for sure.  Just looking at the silkspan makes it rip........  Also I can take some more weight out of it by hollowing the blocks more, etc., and the Spitfire will get the same.  Plus I am going to shed the hard plastic wheels on the Spacehound, never heard a model make so much noise on landing! ROTFLMBO!!!
Then it is on to modifying a '59 Ares to take an OS .25VF and a pipe!  (won't use it anymore in Classic)

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Paul Taylor on March 20, 2012, 08:05:19 PM
Roy DeCamara has a good write up on removing the finish on a plane in the Jan-Feb issue of SN. He shows how to remove the finish and silk span. I am doing this on a very old hanger queen that I got from a estate of a local model builder. This plane has been stored awhile. One thing that I tried was to take my heat gun and heat up the silk span on the wing. It came off real easy. I am doing a total strip using Roy's method.

At this point I am not planning on flying this plane. Just using it as a test base for working on my finishing skills.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on March 20, 2012, 10:19:04 PM
 More interesting stuff from the "Powellworks". I'm definitely interested in watching some of this work. y1
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 21, 2012, 11:58:23 AM
Mark,

The Avenger will just get repaired. I can pretty much make the damage undetectable. I have to cut into it to change a couple of things in the controls (as we discussed). But I think the finish can be repaired.

The Slider 3 (the "Batplane") will get a complete refinish. The USA-1ish will also get some work and we'll fly them a bit to see what we have. The Shoe will probably get salvaged and the Slider 4 will probably either get salvaged or will find a new home.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 21, 2012, 12:07:49 PM
before salvage operations begin, we should talk, I need something to fly locally that I wont hurt  :-[ everything locally to fly on is pretty rough,,, Though I am working on Gordon's suggestion as well,, ( he garauntees it will get my bottoms down,, )
of course there are others who may benefit more from your "cast offs " LOL,,
hey it was a good week despite your struggles,, I hope your overall vibe was positive from the week....
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 21, 2012, 12:15:04 PM
Mark,

Hey, if you would like the red and yellow Slider... I was thinking Tim, but if you want it...
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 21, 2012, 12:43:25 PM
what is it set up for power wise?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Clint Ormosen on March 21, 2012, 05:29:19 PM
What's the advantage of stripping all the way to bare wood? If the plane had a decent finish on it to begin with, why not just get down to the covering and filler coats? Obviously, if the open bay areas are full of holes already it would be easier to recover than to patch. But the solid surfaces should be good to go once you get under the old primer, right?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Bill Little on March 21, 2012, 07:30:57 PM
What's the advantage of stripping all the way to bare wood? If the plane had a decent finish on it to begin with, why not just get down to the covering and filler coats? Obviously, if the open bay areas are full of holes already it would be easier to recover than to patch. But the solid surfaces should be good to go once you get under the old primer, right?

HI Clint,

In my case, I can now apply a lighter, better looking finish from the bare wood up.  If it is one of "newer" models, I would not go to the bare wood.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 21, 2012, 10:26:30 PM
Mark,

It was powered by a RO-Jett 65 with pipe.

Clint,

Well, this plane had a checkered history during finish. It has, ah, a lot of paint on it. I'll use stripper and take it down to wood then see if I can put a much lighter finish on it.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Dennis Adamisin on March 22, 2012, 05:20:02 AM
I have two old birds I would like to strip down, so I will be watching & learning!
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 22, 2012, 08:38:12 PM
Dennis,

I've done it before. I stripped the Cobra I had after having to do a bunch of changes (besides, the original finish was a 6 day special and didn't look all that great). the process isn't too tough. A can of stripper and some patience.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 25, 2012, 03:06:29 PM
Ok, change of plan. I got the Shoestring down and looked it over. I'm just convinced that the problem is the stab. It's got to be misaligned. so I pulled the control surfaces and took it apart and I'm going to strip it, put in a new stab and refinish it, checking the incidence and alignment as I go. It was a cool looking plane and worth trying to save. This should be fun.

I'll post pics as I go along if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Will Hinton on March 25, 2012, 04:53:12 PM
I am!  Maybe I can see better ways to do this than the last refinish I did winter before last!
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 25, 2012, 07:09:43 PM
Hi Will,

Well, here's a couple of pictures. I used Jasco 15 minute stripper. Only got the outboard wing done, but that only took about 20 minutes. Will still need some sanding to prep it for a new finish and I still have to cut the stab out and build a new one.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on March 25, 2012, 10:35:58 PM
 Not using "Dad's" stripper?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 26, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
Oh the one liners I could get outta this,, "Dads stripper," no she was to old and wanted to much money,,  n~

15 minute stripper that took 20 minutes, hmmm ok

but all kidding aside, I have always loved this plane Randy, I am jacked to see you rework it,, Though the repairs on the Avenger still need be made,,
keep us posted,,
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 26, 2012, 10:17:32 AM
Mark,

I'm too irritated with the Avenger right now so it got taken apart, cleaned and put in the rack. It's the headrest really. So it can cook for awhile while I think about it.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 26, 2012, 10:23:57 AM
sorry to hear the frustration is winning out Randy,, but I have no doubt you will get reenergized and figure out a way to correct the headrest issue,, Still a really cool plane,,
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 26, 2012, 10:56:18 AM
sorry to hear the frustration is winning out Randy,, but I have no doubt you will get reenergized and figure out a way to correct the headrest issue,, Still a really cool plane,,

Sometimes the best thing to do with a project is to put it in a cool, dark place and let it sit for a while.

Like wine, it'll mellow as it ages, and come out better than when it went in.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Bill Little on March 26, 2012, 11:04:09 AM
HI Randy,

I have total faith in your abilities, so the models you are working on will come out better than before.  Again, I think that redoing a model is easier than building a new one, at least if it was built correctly.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 26, 2012, 11:04:34 AM
Sometimes the best thing to do with a project is to put it in a cool, dark place and let it sit for a while.

Like wine, it'll mellow as it ages, and come out better than when it went in.
I wonder if that is why Linda keeps turning the lights out whenever she leaves a room with me in it,, hoping I will mellow with age,,
I dont think its working though,,
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 26, 2012, 11:10:31 AM
I wonder if that is why Linda keeps turning the lights out whenever she leaves a room with me in it,, hoping I will mellow with age,,
I dont think its working though,,
If you notice her ordering a great big oaken barrel -- worry.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 26, 2012, 11:59:21 AM
Naw, Mark. You're just a mushroom.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 26, 2012, 12:20:18 PM
thanks for your support guys,, it makes me all warm and tingly,,

or not,, n~
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Will Hinton on March 26, 2012, 01:52:32 PM
Errr, what is it mushrooms grow on? LL~ LL~

Randy, thanks for the info on the stripper - that's a new one to me.  I have to be so careful what I use on music instruments, I'll give this one a try to see whahoppens.  (I have a couple of junkers on hand for just that purpose.)
I'm thinking of refinishing my number one Crosswind, so will be following closely.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 26, 2012, 04:45:04 PM
One of the problems is that I usually cover planes then put on the fillets. This eats the paint, loosens the paper so it can be peeled off (I peeled the bottom of this wing in one sheet. That was weird). It doesn't really effect the fillets, but it loosens the paper under them and allows you to just pull the fillet up with the paper. But any areas where the filler (in this case, SuperFil) is attached directly to the balsa, well, it just doesn't go anywhere. So you have to get a block out when all the paper is off and go after those areas. I will do the other wing tonight and hopefully the fuse will take up the rest of the week. Then I can block the whole thing down, cut the stab out and get the new one built, get it aligned (checking about a million times) then build new control surfaces. I suspect I will be ready to start putting the new finish on in a couple of weeks, maybe sooner.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 26, 2012, 05:39:33 PM
cut the stab out and get the new one built, get it aligned (checking about a million times) then build new control surfaces.

It's not the 106 checks that always get me, it's the 106 +1 operation, when I glue things together and screw it up...
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 30, 2012, 08:54:33 PM
So, I have it about half done. Getting the fillets off is fun. Cut the stab out and that went pretty well. Should be able to finish the stripping tomorrow and I can start sanding and building the new stab and control surfaces.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on March 31, 2012, 09:05:53 PM
OK, the tear down is done and it's time to start rebulding.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Bill Little on April 01, 2012, 04:20:03 PM
HI Randy,

Hopefully a new stab with proper alignment will solve the issue!

Bill
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 01, 2012, 08:31:02 PM
 Approximately how much actual time from the very beginning of the stripping process to the current "bare bones" status?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 01, 2012, 10:46:07 PM
Wayne,

Couple of hours.

It's all sanded down now and I made a new slider (split slider for independent adjustment). Figured I'd correct a couple of things while I'm at it. The new parts are cut out and the stab is almost ready to go in. I should be ready to start finishing (or refinishing) in a few days.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 01, 2012, 11:23:41 PM
 Wow, that's pretty quick. Makes it kind of tempting to re-do a couple of my own.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 01, 2012, 11:40:20 PM
Wow, that's pretty quick. Makes it kind of tempting to re-do a couple of my own.
I am often amazed at how much less time a repair takes than a rebuild from scratch.  I've taken some models that looked like they were good for nothing but shoving into the nearest garbage can, and rebuilt them in significantly less time than it would have taken to build from scratch.

Unless large parts of the model are just flat out pulverized, a repair is usually quicker than toss-and-rebuild.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 02, 2012, 11:00:19 AM
Unless it's a ready to fly Flight Steak.    LL~
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Shultzie on April 02, 2012, 11:30:18 AM
 BW@ RANDY!
That beautiful SHOE' truly was one of the most tasty n' beautiful CLPA models that this old BADBOY (another name that I was thinkin; bout before virtually total burnout!
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 02, 2012, 11:41:57 AM
Unless it's a ready to fly Flight Steak.    LL~

WEll played sir Randy,, well played
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 02, 2012, 12:02:23 PM
Donnie,

yea, that's me looking down at the thing trying to figure out what was wrong with it. At least I can take my time and get it right this time.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Matt Colan on April 02, 2012, 05:13:18 PM
Donnie,

yea, that's me looking down at the thing trying to figure out what was wrong with it. At least I can take my time and get it right this time.

So Randy, if you don't mind me asking, what was wrong with it?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 02, 2012, 10:19:33 PM
Matt,

There's about a million words written somewhere here about it's issues. The thing refused to track. It wandered around like a drunken sailor (no, not Ty). I finally dialed in enough down thrust and down elevator to get it to track in level flight but then it wouldn't turn inside.

It's an alignment issue. After talking to a bunch of guys and having some very sharp stunt minds look at it in flight, it was decided (mostly by me) that the stab is just flat out of alignment, twisted or has demons. So that stab is now gone (here's a tip, don't use a triangular airfoiled stab no matter what the plans say) and the new one will have minor airfoil at the front and that's it and I will use 4 different incidence meters when I put the new on in.

Tonight I spent the evening car shopping. Man, I hate that.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 02, 2012, 10:45:15 PM
Unless it's a ready to fly Flight Steak.    LL~

Hey!!  I only changed out a few wing ribs and two other parts.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Allan Perret on April 03, 2012, 05:54:53 AM
I will use 4 different incidence meters when I put the new on in.
That sounds like fun.  I would suggest you set up a simple test fixture to see if the 4 meters all agree.
Do you remember where you set the incidence on the old stab, and what incidence will you be shooting for with the new stab ? 
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 03, 2012, 10:41:11 AM
Tim,

Uh huh. I seem to remember photo evidence ...

Allan,

Yea, the ones I have are adjustable and I will zero them with each other. I suspect that I managed to get negative incidence in originally partially due to the triangular airfoil stab. Anyway, I will try to put enough positive incidence in just to be sure that there is no negative incidence. I usually put a degree or so of positive incidence in.

When I can get to it, I will put the fuse back in a fuse jig and block it so that the wing is 0-0 with the thrust line then use the incidence meters to set up the stab.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Allan Perret on April 03, 2012, 11:15:33 AM
I suspect that I managed to get negative incidence in originally partially due to the triangular airfoil stab.
I had a triangular shaped stab on my RMD, no tracking issues.  To help with getting the incidence set right I made a rectangle shaped saddle around the center section for mounting in the fuse.  Posted some pictures during the build on BOR site, lost in the crash.  I still have the pics if you want to see again.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 03, 2012, 12:28:38 PM
Tim,

Uh huh. I seem to remember photo evidence ...

Fuselage, stab.  That's two parts.  Right?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 03, 2012, 03:38:35 PM
Allan,

With a triangular airfoil stab, the margin of error as pertains to alignment is somewhat smaller than, say, a flat stab. I suspect that the stab on the Shoe was both out of alignment and twisted. Besides, it's incorrect in reference to the original. I built the first plane according to the Flying Models plan which I discovered was radically incorrect. The second used a Skylark wing (which the original used) but I foolishly used the tail from the Flying Models plan. I have since found out that the original had a flat stab. So a flat stab goes in this time.

Tim,

I suppose if you are talking major assemblies. Seems to me there are only 3. Wing, empennage and fuselage. You replaced much of two out of three.  8)
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 03, 2012, 04:59:07 PM
Tim,

I suppose if you are talking major assemblies. Seems to me there are only 3. Wing, empennage and fuselage. You replaced much of two out of three.  8)

You make confabulation hard.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 03, 2012, 07:28:51 PM
Tim,

One of the drawbacks of my profession.

And the stab is in and a new rudder on. The new flaps and elevator are cut out but not done yet (though the hinge slots are in). I decided to use built up flaps this time as it is somewhat easier to keep them straight. I'll post some more pictures when it gets just a touch further along.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: PJ Rowland on April 04, 2012, 10:27:03 PM
Randy you are giving me nightmare flashbacks.... was that your intention to cause me grief ?

I thought we were past this stage................ 
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 05, 2012, 02:04:44 PM
If anyone is getting grief, it's me.   ;D

I keep looking at this cool planes I have that I spent months building that didn't pan out for one reason or another. I decided that I'd rather fix a couple of them, give a couple away and salvage the rest rather than having them take up space and be hanger queens. I do have one that is really pretty but flies like a toad and my wife wants me to polish it up, bring it in the house and hang it up: objet d'art I guess.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 07, 2012, 07:44:47 PM
OK, more pictures. Re-fitting the cowl right now. then will build the flaps.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 07, 2012, 10:44:16 PM
 It really amazes me how quickly and easily you got the 'String stripped down and ready for rework, especially how clean it appears to have come out of the process. Makes me want to pull something off the wall and strip it down just to see if I can do it.

 Gotta keep going on this Nobler-bash thing for now though. y1

 
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 07, 2012, 11:41:36 PM
Wayne,

Yea, most of 2 months putting a finish on and about 2 hours taking it off. Sigh...

The cowl warped a bit in the process so it's taking a bit to get it refitted. Hope to finish that up tomorrow then I can get the new flaps built and start the finishing process.

I'm trying to decide if I should go with a scheme similar to what I did before, a more scale scheme or something along the lines of a racer flying today. Guess we'll see what strikes me.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 07, 2012, 11:50:56 PM
 My vote goes for the more scale scheme, maybe even the infamous chartruse, paying homage to the true roots of the Shoestring. y1
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Howard Rush on April 08, 2012, 12:21:27 AM
I do have one that is really pretty but flies like a toad and my wife wants me to polish it up, bring it in the house and hang it up: objet d'art I guess.

Dave Pellerin decorated his house with stunters.  His office was painted Fokker Red to match an airplane.  If you did that, you'd have to put pearl in the house paint and go through even more anguish.  Better just fly the thing.  We'll put some VGs on it and get it up to snuff.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: John Sunderland on April 08, 2012, 12:50:46 AM
Randy you have built a scad more nice looking ships than i have. But my experience with paint strippers on stunters was a sad one. I would have sworn that thinnered the residue off very well and resanded prio to new tissue and dope. So i refinish this thing and rubb it to a fare-the-well! So I take it in to work to show the guys in our refinishing shop....warm early summer day. When I come out of work a 5 I pull it out one more time...and it has bubbled and wrinkled and bubbled in ways that could only make a stunt guy cry! :-[

So double check you get all that crap off and let her gas off a bit too before the refin.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Bill Little on April 08, 2012, 04:27:42 PM
Wayne,

Yea, most of 2 months putting a finish on and about 2 hours taking it off. Sigh...

The cowl warped a bit in the process so it's taking a bit to get it refitted. Hope to finish that up tomorrow then I can get the new flaps built and start the finishing process.

I'm trying to decide if I should go with a scheme similar to what I did before, a more scale scheme or something along the lines of a racer flying today. Guess we'll see what strikes me.

Hi Randy,

I totally agree with Wayne and want you to put a scale finish on it.  I think the Brodak profile decals would work on it just fine.  I would love to see you pull off that Cadillac Chartreuse and Red paint scheme.

Bill







Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 08, 2012, 05:53:34 PM
Sorry guys, no chartreuse. If I do a scale like scheme, it will be the Spud Runner, the Kreimendahl Shoestring IV or maybe if I'm going crazy, the Yellow Jacket.

But I will probably go with a shoulda' been racer scheme.

On the stripper; I used it before on the Cobra I have. It worked without issue. I did clean it well after stripping and it gassed off for a couple of weeks (which the Shoestring is doing right now while I get stuff done on it.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mike Keville on April 08, 2012, 06:37:15 PM
. . . I would love to see you pull off that Cadillac Chartreuse and Red paint scheme.

Concur!  The only genuine paint/trim scheme, as seen on the ORIGINAL Shoestring - as opposed to the often-seen light yellow and later blue/orange schemes.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 08, 2012, 06:56:54 PM
 Not too long ago I saw a photo of a Shoestring finished in a bright lime green, almost a neon color, and then with red trim. I think it was from one of the clubs out in the northeast/east coast. It looked really cool. y1

 
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 08, 2012, 09:01:28 PM
Wayne,

Lime green and red? Really? I would through up on the shop floor.

This is the only green plane I've ever done and there is not likely to be a repeat. Green trees, gray skies and a green plane. Not happening again.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 09, 2012, 12:29:06 AM
 I know it sounds nasty, but this plane actually looked really good. I'll have to see if I can find the photo.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 09, 2012, 09:58:24 AM
No Green!    ;D

Might try the bottom one in a different color, though
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 09, 2012, 11:40:42 AM
 That looks pretty slick too. y1

 Seems I always go after the scale or replica type schemes when modeling "real" aircraft. What museum is that pic of the green one from?


 I wonder what Mark is working on? VD~ ;D
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 09, 2012, 11:55:49 AM
Mark has been writing his next column for Stunt News,, and spending time at my moms house helping her prepare for a mega yard sale, in preperation for selling the house and moving,, the 109 is still on the bench, still in progress,, Just kind of stalled for life and family issues sadly,, but onyl temporary I hope,,
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 09, 2012, 12:05:33 PM
 Just seeing if you were paying attention Mark. ;D Hopefully all goes well and you can get back at it soon. y1
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 09, 2012, 12:29:08 PM
Wayne,

I think it's the Reno museum, but that may not be right. I just snagged the picture for illustrative purposes.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 09, 2012, 02:41:25 PM
the 109 is still on the bench, still in progress,, Just kind of stalled for life
Stalled for life.  Oh dear -- this is a setback.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 09, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
Tim,,
again
well played,,
shall I rephrase,,
life has interfered momentarily, and has stalled the project,,
My MOM needs my help,, and thus, priorities,,
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 09, 2012, 03:29:00 PM
Tim,,
again
well played,,
shall I rephrase,,
life has interfered momentarily, and has stalled the project,,
My MOM needs my help,, and thus, priorities,,

Oh -- I forgot the  :), didn't I?

(Hey -- how come there's no "who, me?" smiley?)
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Walter Hicks on April 09, 2012, 06:58:31 PM
Randy, have you ever stripped the paint off of a plane that had auto clear on it? If so how ?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 09, 2012, 08:54:57 PM
Walter,

Yea, this one and the Cobra I did both had catalyzed polyurethane topcoat (and this one will again). This stuff will eat epoxy if you leave it on long enough. Weirdly, it doesn't seem to bother CA.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Dennis Adamisin on April 10, 2012, 08:47:18 AM
Randy:
I am contemplating stripping a foam wing - will the stripper "stop" at removing the tissue or is it likely to keep going right through to the foam?  I would presume it is NOT foam safe!  Also this is a very old early generation foamie with contact cement (not epoxy) holding down the skins...
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 10, 2012, 10:37:21 AM
Dennis,

I suppose it would depend on whether the stripper soaked through the wood to the foam. I'm pretty sure it would eat foam up. If you did it in small sections, it may work OK, but I would think it is "use at your own risk". There may be other strippers that would work. When I bought the can of Jasco stripper, there were about 6 other types for various uses.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tim Wescott on April 10, 2012, 12:01:41 PM
My experience with stripper is from long ago, when my dad hired all of us kids to strip a car for a customer, using stripper and putty knives.  I distinctly recall the paint coming off in layers: you'd put some stripper on an area, then before it dried out you'd scrape off paint.  Usually you just got one layer, with patches of the next coat down underneath (there were lots of coats of paint on that car).

So I think if you did like Randy says, and go slow and careful, that you would have a chance at getting it done.  The downside is that if you did melt some foam, it would be hard to tell and extremely difficult to fix.

But, the more I think about it, the more I think that unless the tissue itself is in bad shape, this might be a job that's better handled by sanding.  Just sand off the dope until you're not quite into the paper; if the job was done well the first time and there's not too much hanger rash, you should be in pretty good shape to just finish the thing from there.  If the original finish job wasn't done well but there's not too much serious hanger rash, then just keep sanding until you're at bare wood.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 12, 2012, 08:27:31 PM
No work on the thing this week. It's been an interesting time. Hope to get back to work on it this weekend.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: PJ Rowland on April 12, 2012, 11:18:32 PM
Its amazing how quickly paint stripper will pull off months of painting..

Randy - Remember ? Im trying to forget...

Everytime I read this thread I shudder... I think I will choose to no longer follow this, sorry bud..

Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 13, 2012, 10:57:04 AM
Ah, PJ, this time it has a purpose not related to frenzied activity or bad paint reactions. I'm actually having fun with it. I have two other planes that may get the same treatment.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Tom Niebuhr on April 13, 2012, 10:00:30 PM
Randy,
How are you neutralizing the stripper?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: PJ Rowland on April 14, 2012, 12:34:52 AM
Tom : I have used acetone in the past.

Randy may use something different.

Id be interested to know if you ever solved the problem with this plane?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 14, 2012, 11:48:04 AM
I used alcohol to wipe it down after stripping. Did the same on the Cobra and that seemed to work pretty well.

I hope I fix the problem. I certainly spent enough time checking the alignment after building the new stab. and this stab is largely flat with just the leading edge shaped.

Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Bill Little on April 14, 2012, 02:49:24 PM
Brother Randy,

I feel confident that the ix you made will work out just fine.  Now, on to the finish!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 14, 2012, 06:50:13 PM
Well, I spent like 3 hours today getting the cowl to fit correctly. Got the flaps framed up and largely built. Will hinge those tomorrow and finish shaping then just have to sand the whole airframe down and start the finish,
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 15, 2012, 07:28:01 PM
OK, ready (finally) to start refinish.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 15, 2012, 07:44:08 PM
Nice Randy, Have you figured out your new paitn scheme yet? and do you need to redo all the fillets this time around?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 15, 2012, 08:48:15 PM
and do you need to redo all the fillets this time around?

 Hey Randy, do the covering before the fillets. :##

 Two bucks sez the top is gonna be red. ;D
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 15, 2012, 09:09:01 PM
Mark,

yes, I have the paint scheme worked out. And yes, I have to do the fillets again ... after covering. Or recovering.

Wayne,

I'll take a money order or you can do paypal.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on April 16, 2012, 10:43:57 AM

Wayne,

I'll take a money order or you can do paypal.

 Staying tuned for further progress... :##
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 16, 2012, 11:31:40 AM
Oh, there will be red, but not around the canopy. Maybe I'll paint it all black.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 16, 2012, 05:32:10 PM
More like Hawser.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 22, 2012, 11:05:50 AM
And there's more. I put a coat of clear on it and it won't completely dry. Probably some sort of reaction to the stripper. Didn't do that before. So I wiped the plane down with acetone and tried again. We'll see what we have when I go out. Seems I'm always working my way around some problem. Oh well, I'll figure it out.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 22, 2012, 07:43:31 PM
OK, all is well. Should be able to start covering once this most recent coat of clear is dry.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Mark Scarborough on April 22, 2012, 08:59:11 PM
glad you sorted it out Randy,, whats the odds of seeing it in Eugene
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on April 23, 2012, 10:57:10 AM
Low. But I may work on it enough. We'll have top see.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on May 08, 2012, 07:00:00 PM
 Anything new at the "Powellworks"?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: PJ Rowland on May 08, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
Cowabunger dude!
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on June 02, 2012, 06:17:58 PM
OK, guys, it's covered and has 2 coats of clear on it. I ran out of clear and am awaiting delivery of some Certified clear. But it's moving again.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on June 02, 2012, 07:33:11 PM
 Ha! Good to hear, I was about ready to give ya a poke again Randy!
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on June 15, 2012, 06:56:55 PM
 
 Randy? D>K
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on June 16, 2012, 01:02:17 PM
hey Wayne,

Nope, no work. I've been involved in a bunch of stuff. And my motivation has been a bit low. Too many other things going on.

I'll get back to it eventually. It's sitting in primer right now.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on June 16, 2012, 05:18:22 PM
 Well, primer is progress. y1
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Bill Little on June 16, 2012, 05:29:17 PM
hey Wayne,

Nope, no work. I've been involved in a bunch of stuff. And my motivation has been a bit low. Too many other things going on.

I'll get back to it eventually. It's sitting in primer right now.

Brother Randy,

I hope you get some time and get the motivation back so that the beast will return to the air before too long.

Best wishes!
Bill
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on July 11, 2012, 09:25:42 PM
I appear to be out of motivation at the moment. So the Shoe is sitting in primer and on the back burner.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: RandySmith on July 11, 2012, 09:48:03 PM
I appear to be out of motivation at the moment. So the Shoe is sitting in primer and on the back burner.


Maybe Howard's cat could come over and help you with that   ;D ;D ;D

Randy
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on July 11, 2012, 10:01:01 PM
 Me too...off and on...sorta. :)

 I do have a TOP SECRET, scratchbuilt, original, .40 size built-up profile project about 3/4 built that I started the beginning of May though. 50" span, 575 square inches, Saito .40. S?P

 I have been wondering and am anxious to see how "The Shoe" comes out though. y1
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on October 01, 2012, 10:06:12 PM

 Ready to blow the dust off the Shoe yet Randy? :)
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on October 07, 2012, 05:41:23 PM
Wayne,

I'm sorta coating right now. Low money and low motivation. I'll get back to it soon. Probably this fall.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: john e. holliday on October 07, 2012, 05:50:08 PM
Randy are you getting like the old DOC, needing someone to put the boot to the backside??   Finally got around to sanding the first coat of primer on the P-47 and then put a coat of clear dope to seal it.   May go ahead with the colors next after the dope gasses a week or so.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on October 07, 2012, 07:22:49 PM
Wayne,
  I'll get back to it soon. Probably this fall.

 Psst, it is fall Randy. VD~ ;D

 Just razzin' ya Randy, gotta make sure you're still out there! I've had the C/L stuff on the back burner myself for a while too. I'm guilty, I've been distracted by this '60 El Camino rat-rod project that I picked up a couple of months ago. Other than for the Reno trip I've been busting my butt (and budget) on it literally every minute that I haven't been at work since I brought it home. It's gonna get stuffed away for winter real soon though and then it will be "hot-n-heavy" in the C/L shop again. I'm actually looking forward to making some balsa dust again... y1

 I wonder how Mark's comin' on the 109??? ;D
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on October 08, 2012, 07:29:40 PM
Wayne,

Well, I'm starting to get my motivation back. Slowly. Right now I'm sorta laid up. Serious sinus infection, but I started on anti-botics and am finally starting to feel better. Probably get back in the shop this weekend.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on October 08, 2012, 08:02:03 PM
 Good to hear Randy, looking forward to seeing some stuff from the "Powellworks".
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on October 10, 2012, 05:15:15 PM
Wayne,

Well, not this weekend as it turns out. My father-in-law died yesterday and I will be driving on Friday for the funeral. So maybe the weekend after this.

Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on October 10, 2012, 10:27:17 PM

 Sorry to hear that Randy, my condolences. Take care, and have a safe trip.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: john e. holliday on October 12, 2012, 09:44:40 AM
I too am sorry to hear of the passing of your father-in-law.   Mine passed away a couple of years after the wife and I got married.  Knew him years before I met her.  I was a service station attendent at the time.  Was told never touch his truck, just take his money when he is done.  Walked into her house as her mother wanted to meet me.  And there he sat after not working the station for about 4 years.  But, he was one of the great Father-in-laws, none better.  So take care.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on October 15, 2012, 09:56:29 AM
I'm back. He was a great guy and I will miss him. I am closer to my in-laws, in some ways, than I was with my own parents. Tough trip. 2400 miles in two weeks, driving on weekends and little sleep.

Hopefully, I can get back to playing with toy airplanes soon.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on October 15, 2012, 10:26:53 AM
 Welcome back Randy. y1
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on November 05, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
Wayne,

Well, I am back, but I'm afraid the Shoe is going on the shelf. I am a bit hyped up about this new PA plane and decided that I would leave the Shoe for later. It's covered and has 4 coats of unthinned clear on it so it will keep.

Sigh...
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on November 05, 2012, 09:40:56 PM

 What's the scoop on the new plane?
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: Randy Powell on November 06, 2012, 12:24:45 PM
My first electron powered aircraft. It's, ah, interesting anyway. I'm still drawing it, so it's not set in stone yet.
Title: Re: The science of refinish
Post by: wwwarbird on November 06, 2012, 06:20:07 PM
 Ahh, now I understand the recent difficulty in finding motivation. Z@@ZZZ

 (Just kidding, I couldn't resist.)

 Good luck with it Randy, looking forward to seeing the next project from the "Powellworks". ;D