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Author Topic: speeding up cure times  (Read 989 times)

Tom Vieira

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speeding up cure times
« on: May 23, 2018, 08:50:35 AM »
Hi everyone!  Still new, and this may have been discussed before, but I can't find any direct mentions of this idea.

Once upon a time, I worked in auto-body collision and restoration shops.  Often times, if the spray-bake booth was occupied, we'd do small spot repair priming out on the shop floor.  And, being that production was always a target, we'd use infrared heat lamps set to about 180-200 *F to cure the primers.  Even in a small mom and pop shop, he rigged his booth with a couple lamps around the interior of the booth to bake clears, and it worked superb!

Yes, we still followed OEM instructions on the paint, and advised customers not to wax their cars for at least 3 months, due to continued possible off-gassing.  However, everything always came out of the booth ready to handle, and never had to worry about finger prints and such, unless you were REALLY trying to make a point.  Usual bake time (if I remember right) was 45 mins for primers, and 90 minutes for clears (each OEM had their own time and temps).

I'd imagine this should still work for us.  Chemistry tells us that (typically...) adding heat speeds reactions due to increased energy, more effective collisions, etc....  So, this, along with a fan (especially for clears to prevent dye-back, and solvent based paints like automotive color coats and lacquer) should get rid of the "weeks and weeks" of waiting for dope, latex, urethanes, rattle cans, etc to dry, right?  And, being that it's light being used, it's actually heating the surface, rather than relying on hot air, so a fan wouldn't be counter productive (within reason, if airflow was just enough to blow fumes away, not so much as to negate any heating).  Yes, pro level spray-bake booths use hot air...  They have a heat exchanger built in to the intake side, so they are passing hot air over the vehicle.  I'm not spending $30K on a booth big enough for a car :)  But, a couple hundred on a heat lamp, and maybe some wizardry with an arduino or raspberry pi and a thermistor and relay......

I also fly high-powered model rockets, and waiting a 2-3 days or even a week for them to dry between spray-bomb colors for masking is a joke...!  I've been curious about this for a while, but it's now becoming a "justifiable" possibility....  I'd be getting an all around good deal on this, two hobbies with one (or two) lamps!

https://www.amazon.com/Bestauto-Infrared-Curing-Baking-Bodywork/dp/B07CTGFL31/ref=lp_15707171_1_11?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1527086990&sr=1-11

Thoughts?

Tom Vieira

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Re: speeding up cure times
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2018, 09:25:24 AM »
Oh yes...  I've seen what happens when you place a lamp too close...  And the resulting firing of the "guy who was supposed to be awesome" that completely wrecked the paint on a quarter panel!

I think the epoxy thing is more a function of, at least in materials that it has the ability to soak in to, is jus that.  The decreased cure time didn't allow it to flow in to where it needed to be.  They cure F1 chassis in massive autoclaves.  I'd say that's good enough proof for me!

This is where the thermistor and controller would come in, to try and slowly ramp the heat up to let it normalize, and then slowly let it down.  Say, 15 mins in each direction.  Think annealing glass, trying to minimize strain on the component.  Maybe also a sort of rotisserie rigged up from a grill to promote even heating?  Plus, an e-stop circuit built in.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: speeding up cure times
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2018, 09:28:29 AM »
T.J.

I have that automotive background also. The past.  LL~

The only thing I speed dry is clear dope when I fill the grain of silk.

I use a heat gun, the type most modelers have and know how to use without starting fires.  LL~ LL~ LL~

Well, I would hope.

I use no color paint that 'gasses' out over time.

I use no primers that take time to dry.

I can sand my primer in ten minutes and a half hour with the colors.

Clear the same day.

You know all about the two part clears which is all I use for a top coat and it sets up quickly.

Everything except the clear dope is in aerosol cans.

A heat lamp never occurred to me.

CB

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Tom Vieira

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Re: speeding up cure times
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2018, 09:57:39 AM »
Heat guns are great for spot treatments, and if you're willing to sit there to keep spreading the heat over larger surfaces.  But, if I want to pay some attention to my project manager (a.k.a. Lucy, my dog) that is ALWAYS in the way while working, it'd be nice to let it bake good and hard while playing fetch or wrestling with her.

what sprays are you using?  I've used Duplicolor and Rustoleum sprays.  The primers set up ok in an hour or two on my rockets, but have a tendency to shrink a little, so I let them dry for a long while before sanding.  I've never had repeatable masking success with colors on either one if I didn't let it dry for a couple of days.  Both Rustoleum and Duplicolor clears still "stunk" even a few days later, meaning they were still technically drying.

Clear, being the last part of the equation, I'm ok with letting it sit by itself for a while.  it's the rest of it that really bugs me.....  If I can get the primer cured good and hard, and effectively remove any shrinking because its cured, awesome!

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: speeding up cure times
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2018, 10:44:58 AM »
Quote
what sprays are you using?

T.J.

Are you asking for the APFS? 'Avaiojet Paint Finishing System.'  LL~ LL~ LL~

The days of using professional spray equipment are long gone for me and I don't miss or need them one bit.

I use only products that work for me so don't anyone try this at home.

FYI. Excessive hours of testing under many conditions.  LL~

All colors are Krylon aerosol can, flat or satin. I also 400 or 600 all between colors.

I use Tamiya Acrylic, jars, pushed through an airbrush.

I did the entire Stuka Tank Buster with this brand. White camo on the Stuka was Golden Acrylic artists tube.

Golden makes airbrush paint, High Flow Acrylics, which I use around the edge of the black canopies The ARGO and The ARGO II.

This stuff can be used for large areas also.

I use only 2K Spray clear. Aerosol can.

Same stuff I used for years in R/C.

I have my system mapped out for myself.

I share what I do and use in all my Builds Threads and finishing Threads.

I keep no secrets.  ;D

Check out my Threads!

You mentioned masking issues?

Check out my Flite Streak 007 Skyfall. Tons of masking and large complicated paint masks. No tape removal issues.

Charles



« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 09:12:34 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Tom Vieira

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Re: speeding up cure times
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2018, 11:02:43 AM »
I saw the tank buster thread, that was beautiful!  Waaaaaaay more complicated than anything I am looking at doing for the moment :)

I suppose before agonizing over this, I should probably learn how to cover with silkspan and such...  I've only used monokote.....!

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: speeding up cure times
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2018, 12:24:56 PM »
I saw the tank buster thread, that was beautiful!  Waaaaaaay more complicated than anything I am looking at doing for the moment :)

I suppose before agonizing over this, I should probably learn how to cover with silkspan and such...  I've only used monokote.....!

T.J.

I cover only with silk.

And I find filling the weave takes less coats than anything else I've used.

Plus, I now apply silk dry.

Take a look at my Gee Bee R-3 Build Thread over at CFC Graphics.

Charles



Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.


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