stunthanger.com
Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Larry Renger on July 18, 2013, 11:10:57 PM
-
It seems as though one can apply SLC covering over undoped Polyspan, and get a slick, incredibly light base for painting. I'm going to try it on a plane I am rebuilding. News as it happens.
-
In my experience that is backwards. It is SLC first then the Poly-Span to get the silkspan look so many like. Also doing the SLC first you have to remember to get the scouring pad out and buff it a little.
-
Yes, Doc, I know it is backwards. But I don't want a silkspan look finish, I want a super light high gloss paint finish.
By using the SLC instead of dope, it should bond everywhere to the Polyspan and make an extra strong and slick covering job.
My actual question was whether it has been tried!
-
OK, I am trying this type of finish!
See my Baby Clown thread in the 1/2A section for progress.
-
It works fantastic! The weight, by an actual test sample, is 1.46 oz/sq.yard. The structural rigidity it adds is amazing. I have some technique to work on as far as flawless tips, but the ones I did aren't horrible.
Now I need to work on how to properly paint it. I have a sample piece drying. It is Painters' Choice right on the steel wool buffed SLC.
-
The point is to not have to fill the Polyspan weave with heavy coats of dope and filler. The SLC does all that, and by bonding to the Polyspan adds tremendous rigidity to the wing structure. The only dope used is enough to bond the Polyspan to the wing structure. No dope on the open bays at all!
I expect that the SLC underneath with Polyspan doped over it gets the same strength gain, and is reputed to save weight compared to filling the weave with dope alone. But SLC on top does it all, lighter.
If one used dyed covering such as silkspan, your finish would be done in one shot. Also, use of some of the ultralight films intended for parkflyers becomes practical for big models. More experimentationto be done!
See the Baby Clown thread in the 1/2A section for a photo of the wing.
-
Hi.
It depends on what is your idea of a slick surface. The plastic film will propably mirror all imperfections from the base surface, it means that the paper has to be filled well anyway. Personally I would do it in the opposite way.
But for quick & dirty finish, why not!
Lauri
Ps. People should test the polyester fabric (ripstop) materials, like Icarex, in cl models too. They are extremely strong, stabile and easy to use. They have allready made the Polyspan allmost history in Many free flight categories.
-
The imperfections can be filled with primer on the SLC after a quick wet sanding to kill the gloss. There is no reason to fill the paper!
-
Sorry, didn't notice that you are going to paint it, too. In that case, why not. Or just forget the Polyspan and cover with slightly thicker Mylar (I guess that's what SLC is, too). It can be painted, that's the standard practise in eastern Europe. L
-
With out doing actual destructive impact tests, I believe the composite of fiber and film is way tougher and more rigid than either alone.
-
Hello Larry,
I don't have a clue what SLC is, but it sounds as though your system is similar to mine. I cover the airfame with very thin mylar that the FF boys use. Stick it on with balsaloc or thinned down impct adhesive. then cover with dyed silk and one coat of 50/50% thinned dope. Fuel proof to taste. It is incredibly strong and lighter than silk onits own as you don't need to seal the silk.
Andrew.
-
Nope, sorry, you have completely missed the point! The Polyspan, silk, japanese tissue, or silkspan is attached only around the periphery, then the SLC (super light covering, a vey thin Mylar with adhesive coating) is applied OVER it and heat bonded to the fiber underlayer. The fiber layer, whatever it is, is NOT DOPED IN THE OPEN BAYS. The SLC provides both the function of filler, binding film and fuel proofing even if no other finish is applied.
The result is a composite covering that is incredibly light, tough and rigid, but fuel proof or paint ready without multiple layers of dope and filler.
This way of covering is exactly reversed from your standard practice of covering with SLC then applying one of the fiber coverings doped over it. Yes that works, but you still have to then apply dope to fill the fiber and fuelproof it. Putting the SLC on top of the raw fiber gives you the same strength with a LOT less work, time and weight. Also, IMHO a better finish than I have the patience to achieve otherwise.
As mentioned elsewhere, with Polyspan, the result weighs. only 1.4 ounces per sq.yard.
-
With out doing actual destructive impact tests, I believe the composite of fiber and film is way tougher and more rigid than either alone.
Hi Larry,
I agree 100% on your supposition that the two, together, are stronger than either alone.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
-
One day of flying, and so far, no separation. I will keep everyone posted on how this technique works out on the long term.
-
Two weeks later, all is still staying stuck where it is supposed to. So far, so good. Give it a try! No dope on the Polyspan, the SLC bonds to it and stabilizes the structure like you wouldn't believe, and then provides a totally smooth surface for painting (after you rough up the outer surface with wet sanded 600 grit) I don't think you even need primer! Maybe for a 20 point finish, a primer coat and blocking coat might be needed, but not for us normal mortals.
Think about it, 1 sq yard will cover just about any model you can imagine, and it only weight 1.5 ounces ready for paint. What does a dope over tissue or Polyspan surface weigh for that area? or even a Polyspan OVER SLC? You are totally eliminating the filler coats of dope to achieve a smooth surface, not counting the time and effort required. The bond between the SLC and fiber is really strong. Dope would just get in the way.
My next trick is to try some of the ultra-light park flyer coverings over the Polyspan to get color without paint at all!
-
Anyone else tried this yet? H^^
-
My next plane.
-
So, what brave soul will be the first to try this? It REALLY works.
-
I'm curious as to whether we even need the polyspan. After all, the SLC on my speed limit combat ships took a horrible beating and held up. Can we just use SLC for our covering and save the labor/weight?
-
I dunno, try it and you tell us!
I think that technique is called Monokoating. except for the painting part. VD~
The point to the laminating technique is that the resulting composite covering seems to be incredibly rigid and tough. It should also not allow spreading tears if punctured. Mind you, I'm not going to crash into a tree or something to prove that!
Time will tell whether it is resistant to wrinkling with temperature changes as film-only coverings do.
People have been using SLC/Polyspan composite covering for years, but in my opinion, backwards, resulting in excess work, extra expense and mostly weight penalty. With the SLC over the Polyspan you automatically have a filled, smooth surface ready for final finish.
Since the film bonds fully to the fibers, the result is way stronger and more stable than either alone.
-
I have several planes with just SLC covering. A couple I darkened with magic marker before covering the plane. One I painted the SLC after using scouring pad. I want to try Larry's method on the next plane.
-
Thanks for the interesting experiment Larry. It's a good idea. I don't like to build wings with wood, cause they really break in a crash. So I've ended up with a foam wing, filled with lightweight filler(1 oz), covered with SLC (1.5 oz) on a 700 sq.in. wing plus fuse and tail feathers, one coat of primer sanded off(20 gr), one coat of white enamel(2 oz) and some trim coloring(1 oz). About 6 oz. from the bare structure.
-
Does the poly/slc loosen when exposed to heat and intense sunlight like ultracoat and monokote do?
Jim
-
Not so far. It has been hot here, but only been out with it about 4 days.
Update to 6 days with 90 deg temps experienced.
-
Larry,
Any further reports? Is there any paint peeling or covering delaminating?
Thanks,
Rick
-
Lauri,
Icarex is used in kites. Is it heat shrinkable like polyspan?
-
I am not familiar with Icarex, so can't give you an answer.
Larry
-
Yes it heat-shrinks. Icarex is OK and many people use it. But now there is a slightly better (lighter) japanese equivalent, made by Daichi Orimono.
Just to make it airtight it does not need dope (unlike Icarex) but I put 2 coats and then wet sand #2000 to make surface better.
You glue it on with thinned contact cement (UHU for soft plastics is best): 3 coats to framework and then iron it on.
L
-
Where can you buy this material?
-
You should ask local FF guys..? Not those who do the vintage crap, but real FAI free flight people.
I get mine via friends in Norway or Finland so don't really know about real distributors. L
Ps. I see you live in California. I'll be there in February to fly some FF, in Lost Hills.
-
Wow, 1000 + views! And nobody has tried it? HB~>
-
Yes it heat-shrinks. Icarex is OK and many people use it. But now there is a slightly better (lighter) japanese equivalent, made by Daichi Orimono.
Just to make it airtight it does not need dope (unlike Icarex) but I put 2 coats and then wet sand #2000 to make surface better.
You glue it on with thinned contact cement (UHU for soft plastics is best): 3 coats to framework and then iron it on.
L
Hi Lauri san,
Isn't it POWER RIP?
Power Rip is produced by Teijin and distributed by Daiichi Orimono.
I have never used the plastic films without heat-adhesive coating.
How do you overlap the films around wing tip? Brush on some glue over the first film before overlapping?
Is it easy to cover the tip? Heat, pull and heat-glue just like other plastic flims?
Aki
PS, I remember that the model of my profile photo is covered with SLC over Silkpan...sorry, not Polyspan
-
Hi Aki!
It's very possible. But I am not sure, I will confirm it from my supplier.
I never cover tips or even D-box with it, only open construction. I cover each wing panel (F1A) with one piece, wrapping around t.e. Glue seam in perimeter is 3...5mm wide.
I cover carbon D-box and tips with lightest modellspan paper and then over seams with light Esaki tissue.
Paper-covered D-boxes are slightly lighter, better looking and easier to repair.
Lauri
-
Larry,
I have covered two planes with your concept of SLC over polyspan. The first was my brother's RSM Mark 1 trainer. He didn't want it painted and was very happy with the "look" of the SLC over polyspan. It's also tough as nails. The second plane I covered with SLC over polyspan is my new Joe Dill Chipmunk. I painted the SLC (after scuffing with 2000 grit sandpaper) with auto 2-part acrylic urethane. It came out beautifully. Attached is a photo of it (without its canopy). Of course, I'm hoping that it stays looking that way. Only time will tell.
Rick
-
Looks great Rick!!
Tom
-
Beautiful indeed! Any idea what the weight saving was? H^^
-
Will try to remember to try this on my next plane. I didn't think of it or remember when I did the RSM Ringmaster and the Canard Ringmaster.
-
Larry,
I don't know for sure, but the entire finish including the weight of the Polyspan and SLC was 7 oz. I'm pretty sure it would have been heavier with either silkspan or polyspan (by the time I filled the voids). However, the SLC over Polyspan is so much tougher that I would use it even if there weren't any weight savings. I guess I'm most concerned about the long term behavior of the SLC over Polyspan. Will there be any paint delaminations, will there be any wrinkles? After one month, there are absolutely no problems.
Thank you for coming up with, and sharing this concept.
Rick
-
Larry what heat setting are you using on your iron to iron down the SLC to the Polyspan?
Thank you
Mike
-
I use just enough heat to activate the adhesive until I get to the tips, then enough to allow stretching the film.
-
Do you use your heat gun at all. The reason I am asking is that I am going to try this.
Thanks
Mike
-
I rarelyuse a heat gun as I tend to burn holes. HB~>
-
Do you use your heat gun at all. The reason I am asking is that I am going to try this.
Thanks
Mike
Mike san,
Even a 500W hair dryer can burn holes, so you don't have to use a heat gun at all.
I cannot remember why I know about it....
Aki
-
I just checked the date for when I did the first job, and it was early July. So far no problems except abrasions from inverted landings... :-[ Didn't go all the way through, though. That combo is TOUGH! #^
-
Larry,
I don't know for sure, but the entire finish including the weight of the Polyspan and SLC was 7 oz. I'm pretty sure it would have been heavier with either silkspan or polyspan (by the time I filled the voids). However, the SLC over Polyspan is so much tougher that I would use it even if there weren't any weight savings. I guess I'm most concerned about the long term behavior of the SLC over Polyspan. Will there be any paint delaminations, will there be any wrinkles? After one month, there are absolutely no problems.
Thank you for coming up with, and sharing this concept.
Rick
"...but the entire finish including the weight of the Polyspan and SLC was 7 oz."
The weight of the entire cover (silkspan) and dope finish on my Impact (700 in^2) is 8 oz. Larry has seen the finish; I'd estimate from my last Impact (which had the same cover and finish) that it is an 18 to 19 point finish. My last Impact had over 2,200 flights on it with the same cover & finish and while I will grant that the SLC over Polyspan is a much tougher cover I never did get any holes/tears in the cover including trips to the Nats & many other contests. The new process might be the way to go if you tend to get holes/tears in your cover, if you are in a situation where you are unable to use a dope finish, or just don't want to do that much work to get the finish.
-
Bill,
Thanks for the encouragement to a beginner flier.
Rick
-
Sounds like a great way to cover a model.
What I don't understand is how do you keep the overlap from showing when you paint?
Or do you do both top and bottom together?
-
When you are several feet away the overlap does not show.
-
A light dusting of primer will hide the seam when sanding the film for painting. That is the only place you really need to prime if you are worried about it.
-
Larry,
So, just what the heck IS SLC, and where do we get it?
I know the process for silkspan and dope, etc., but what is the SLC?
I would be more than happy to put a lighter, stronger finish on the airplane, but have no idea what the SLC is.
Please explain.
Thanks,
Doug.
-
SLC is a thin film with adhesive backing. It is applied with an iron ant then heat shrunk. I bond it over undoped Polyspan.
It is available from Corehouse Models.
-
A little background on SLC covering. As Lauri guessed, it is polyester with a fuel proof, heat seal adhesive on it. It's less than .001 thick, so if the edges are properly ironed down they will disappear. You can barely see the line and most people can't feel an edge less than .001 or .002in. thick. The film edge will get buried under primer and paint. I'd be more concerned about the polyspan edges showing through. The film is about 1oz/sq.yd.
Doug Moon used it on his Gieseke Nobler ARF's a few years ago. He and others put automotive paint and clear directly on the film with good success.
After six or seven years of leaving planes in the car for a week some of them have developed bubbles on flat balsa sheet sides. They can be ironed back down without hurting the paint.
The website, sadly out of date, has info or send me an email. home.earthlink.net/~philcartier
A 10-12ft sample is $6, prepaid. 100ft x 15.5in. roll is $35 plus $6 or USPS Priority mail and $1.25 for PayPal if you don't want to prepay by check or MO
I can't take credit cards at the moment. Visa screwed me out of a goodly sum on a processing error, so I'm looking for alternatives.
-
So, what brave soul will be the first to try this? It REALLY works.
Larry this is not a new process. I have covered like that on several occasions for years and yes the film will stick tenaciously to either silkspan or Polyspan. You also get a side benefit in that you can put the film on in pieces to achieve a complex color scheme by doing this method. picture of my walt Umland Edge 540 will show you that it is a completely viable solution. Each piece of the wing/tail design was cut separately and applied. Your also right in that the method gives incredible torsional rigidity to the wing
-
Wow! Very spectacular decor. Thanks for showing it. CLP**
-
Thanks for the great thread Larry. I'm ready to cover my Baby Flite Streak, and need a bullet proof plane to learn to fly inverted, so I am covering with your method and have 2 questions:
1. At what stage should I apply Super-Fil for the fillets...before or after I cover the wing?
2. What size tank should I use for my Norvel Big Mig 061?
I always learn a lot from you guys!
Steve Thornton
-
I would do the fillets after the Polyspan but before the SLC.
A 1 ounce tank should do.
-
Larry just one more question, what method did you use to apply the Polyspan? Did you use dope or Balsarite or stix-it? Thanks again for this post it's a great idea.
Steve
-
Go read reply number 6.
Yes, I'm mean and nasty in my old age. VD~ VD~ VD~
-
Reply #6 "The only dope used is enough to bond the Polyspan to the wing structure. No dope on the open bays at all!" Does this mean that the polyspan is not bonded to the ribs? Sorry if you are getting impatient with these questions, but I don't want to make a mess of a plane I have worked on to be straight and strong. Doc, I'm not stupid but I'll admit to being ignorant!
Steve
-
I think you don't want the poly-span doped to the ribs. Might be faster if you send Larry a PM. He is a nice gentleman.
-
I do dope theribs tomake them smooth, but don't bond the polyspan to them. Some bonding does happen in the heat shrink and SLC overlay process. You want the polyspan to have as much leeway to shrink evenly as possible.
So faras I have experienced, any film covering will work, but you will find major weight and paint adhesion differences.
Hard as it may be to believe, I don't have ALL the answers! LL~
-
Thanks for the work & info Larry. You have given me a plan & a track to run on. While you may not have all the answers, you do have a very innovative idea and that's way ahead of me. I am curious if some Balsarite on the ribs might allow the span to adhere after shrinking & prevent the covering from "floating" while in flight. It wouldn't add much weight & would add some torsional strength. I'll give you a report after vacation.
Steve
-
Balsarite should work too.
-
Any input from people who have tried this? Enquiring minds want to know, especially if there are issues to be overcome! It works great for me, but I don't do 20 point models. D>K
-
7000+ viewings, and nobody trying it? Astounding!!! Give it a shot on a junker refit and maybe you will come to love it. How hard is this? HB~>
-
A little background on SLC covering. As Lauri guessed, it is polyester with a fuel proof, heat seal adhesive on it. It's less than .001 thick, so if the edges are properly ironed down they will disappear. You can barely see the line and most people can't feel an edge less than .001 or .002in. thick. The film edge will get buried under primer and paint. I'd be more concerned about the polyspan edges showing through. The film is about 1oz/sq.yd.
Doug Moon used it on his Gieseke Nobler ARF's a few years ago. He and others put automotive paint and clear directly on the film with good success.
After six or seven years of leaving planes in the car for a week some of them have developed bubbles on flat balsa sheet sides. They can be ironed back down without hurting the paint.
Phil
Here's what happened to my SLC (???) covered Clown racer built in 2001. The covering is what Steve Sacco used on his combat ships back in the '80's and measures .0015". The paint is System Three Inc.'s line of water based urethane marine paints which was sold by Nelson Aircraft Co. (RC stuff). The Clown spent years in attics subject to extremes of temperatures and over the last couple of years shed its paint. The covering was scuffed with OOO steel wool prior to painting.
Is the covering a thicker version of SLC? Was the water based paint the problem? I have enough of the material left for one or two more planes and it's so light I'd be tempted to try it again as per Larry's suggestion.
Ara
-
My Chipmunk is still looking good after about 1 year. No problems so far.
Rick
-
I've done 6 planes with either SLC or Ultracote over polyspan and I've shrunk the polyspan first. I'm not sure it makes too much difference, though.
Rick
-
I tried it out on one of my nostalgia combat designs from the early 60's that I put together for this fall's GSCB meet. I wanted the doped tissue look but didn't have the time. Worked out pretty well. A number of people asked me what I cleared it with.
-
I definitely shrink the polyspan first.
That combat job looks great! Imagine what it would weigh and the time and money spent if you tried to get that gloss with dope! S?P
-
I haven't done it, but the free-flight guys do regularly.
-
Larry I am getting ready to cover a Little Jumping Bean wing. I have some Polyspan lite, has anyone tried your method with this?
-
Larry I am getting ready to cover a Little Jumping Bean wing. I have some Polyspan lite, has anyone tried your method with this?
Yes, I have, and it is a great use for the light stuff. Coupled with one of the "park flyer" coverings you get a really light weight, fancy finish. :!
Here is a sample! The model is the Sky Sport, kitted by RSM and designed for .061 power, though a Tee Dee .049 would do the job on shorter lines.
-
Yup, Microlite it is. D>K
-
I just got transparent red and yellow from Tower. I don't think they like you LL~ LL~
Also transparent blue from Smith Brothers in Reseda, CA. I DON't know if they do web sales.
-
I am just finishing an RSM Ringmaster. The covering is lightweight Polyspan with white Microlite film covering bonded over it. So far, so good!
The polyspan was ironed down with Mod Podge. I did find the glue soaks through the covering and needs to be cleaned off the iron occasionally. Acetone does the job.
First photo is the polyspan. You can see that it is way lighter than the regular stuff. Second photo is the finished wing. There is a faint texture to the surface, but it sure is shiny! ;D
Wow! Eleven Thousand hits on this thread, and counting! The only one I found with more is Bob Hunt's electric twin development thread with Forty-nine thousand hits (something to shoot for, guys!) Y %^@
-
That is sure shiny. I got some Mod Podge to use.
-
Larry is definitely n to something here. I did a test panel a couple of days ago using this method and it appears to be almost bulletproof and very light.
Mike
-
You forgot there was SLC over the poly-span.
-
I agree that Mod Podge adhesion seems a bit weak, but it has proven adequate for me so far. My real complaint is that it soaks through the lightweight Polyspan and sticks to the iron, making it draggy on the tissue.
I have a can of water based contact cement I want to experiment with. Anyone tried that stuff?
-
See the finished model in the main forum. ;D #^ H^^ CLP** j1 **) (PE**) o2oP DV^^
-
I agree that Mod Podge adhesion seems a bit weak, but it has proven adequate for me so far. My real complaint is that it soaks through the lightweight Polyspan and sticks to the iron, making it draggy on the tissue.
I have a can of water based contact cement I want to experiment with. Anyone tried that stuff?
Yes, it is just as bad. Have to clean the iron every so often.
-
Lucky me, I flamed out in the four leaf clover and slid in inveted on asphalt. Lots of rework needed on the canop and rudder, but only a barely discernable scuff on the covering! YAY!
-
My Ringmaster has been to hot flying fields for several months now, and the covering is still taut! Nary a wrinkle. ;D. Looks good as new too. Plus the water slide inkjet decals are still perfect.
You got to try this!
-
Larry, my next plane is going to get this treatment. Thanks.
-
About time! VD~ mw~ #^ ;D
-
Looks great! Is that a Pathfinder? H^^
-
Getting ready to put 8mm blue silk on a Pat Johnston S-1 (ish) Ring Master wing for a plane I hope to keep under 26 oz
Does anyone think the SLC ( I have plenty of) is a good idea on top to keep from dope, dope, dope weight adding?
And if so-- should I put ANY dope ( perhaps one cote of tautening) on the silk panels first?
Remember the RM is a polywog rib set
-
one very thin coat of taughtining dope might be good. You do NOT want to fill the weave or you will get bubbles of un-attached film. Definitely be sure the silk is well adhered to the ribs.
Let us know how it comes out, and show photos! H^^
-
Today it was over 90 deg. out, and still no hint of slackness or wrinkles in the covering. The plane was left in full sun, not hidden in the tree shade at Whittier Narrows. ;D
That is at least 6 days in the sun, now.
Oh, btw I scored 444.5 in Old Time. That's the good news. The bad news is that was only good enough for fourth. HB~>
-
Nearly 18,000 views and two guys have tried it? What is so hard? Buid a Brodak 1/2 A ARF Clown and try it out.
A: It is a fun plane to own. ( Cox, Norvel, Brodak and AP Wasp all fit, saw off the nose and add a firewall for Cox reed engines, surely you have ONE of the above?)
B: It is quick and cheap. 35 ft Spiderwire lines and an 1/8" ply handle with 2" line spacing certainly won't break the budget.
C: If it sucks,you can strip it easily and do something else. Not like 6 months doping and polishing for appearance points were at stake.
Come on, where is your sense of adventure?
-
I wanted to try this on the fuselage of my new Crossfire. I'm just wondering, since it's all balsa, no open bays like a wing surface, do I gain anything by using the Polyspan under the SLC covering or can I just use the SLC and then paint it? Thinking about the weight savings by just going with the SLC.
Thanks
-
Although I posted a photo of my finished Berekely Lancer in the Build Section, I thought I'd also post it here. Wing is finished with SLC over polyspan. It came out beautiful. I'm really getting to like this method for my sport planes with open bay wings. Fuse and tail feathers were painted with Duplicolor Paint Shop and cleared with 2 part auto.
-
WOW! Nice. y1
I think just SLC alone on solid wood parts is all you need.
-
Although I posted a photo of my finished Berekely Lancer in the Build Section, I thought I'd also post it here. Wing is finished with SLC over polyspan. It came out beautiful. I'm really getting to like this method for my sport planes with open bay wings. Fuse and tail feathers were painted with Duplicolor Paint Shop and cleared with 2 part auto.
That is a beautiful finish. Can you give more detail as to how you achieved it? How did you prep the fuse and tail feathers? Which 2 part auto clear did you use?
Thanks,
Vince
-
Vince:
Fuselage and tail feathers were finished with nitrate, carbon veil, then several coats of Eze-kote finishing resin (http://www.horizonhobby.com/eze-kote-finishing-resin--500-ml-dlmbd37) followed by Duplicolor rattle can gray primer. Color was Dupli-Color Paint Shop lacquer paint then the 2 part auto clear coat. Clear is ACL-7200-5L by Axis performance coatings.
The Eze-kote is similar to water-based poly but cures much faster and sands very nicely.
-
How did you do the decals? That is a great looking model!
What prep did you do for the paint over SLC? ???
-
Although I posted a photo of my finished Berekely Lancer in the Build Section, I thought I'd also post it here. Wing is finished with SLC over polyspan. It came out beautiful. I'm really getting to like this method for my sport planes with open bay wings. Fuse and tail feathers were painted with Duplicolor Paint Shop and cleared with 2 part auto.
Omg that looks amazing!
-
Yes it does...
I usually hate cloth hinges but those blended in very well
Starting to get enough dry air days here to try my hand at a SLC over silk or poly wing
This Lancer inspired me to get things set up
-
Decal was made on my vinyl cutter. Scanned the image, traced it in AutoCad, then cut it out with the cutter. It's all about the tools you know!
-
Although you can paint directly over the SLC, I didn't want a ridge where the SLC ended so I covered the portion I was going to paint with carbon veil adhered with Eze-Kote.
-
Ummmm, did you then sand a taper down to the SLC surface? I am not clear on the exact process. It looks like you have a winner, though. Please detail it out step by step for those of us of feeble brain (see Winnie thr Poo for reference). I want my next one to look that good! #^
-
Applied the CF veil, then several coats of Eze-kote, sanding between coats until smooth. Primed with DC-540 primer with the rest of the parts to be painted, then color coats. The ridge between the painted surface and the clear SLC film is at the red pinstripe line and not very noticeable.
-
What is EZ-Kote? I never heard of it. ???
-
What is EZ-Kote? I never heard of it. ???
https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/gb/rc-modelling/82-eze-kote-5060243900746.html (https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/gb/rc-modelling/82-eze-kote-5060243900746.html)
It's a pretty cool water based finishing resin. It is not like Minwax Polycrylic. The viscosity is thicker and it dries quite rapidly. Sands well too. It smells totally different from polycrylic, also.
There are some good videos of it in use on youtube.
-
I see that Horizon Hobby is a distributor, which implies that virtually any LHS should be able to get this stuff, or we can order direct from HH. So, I assume that Brent has used this stuff already? Has Gordy D. or Norm W. tried it? I noticed that they said "fuel resistant" and that does concern me a bit. I'd prefer "impervious", ya know! ~> Steve
-
My Ringmaster is now over a year old and still sag free! :)! No hangar rash or noticeable damage from two (count them, two) inverted landings on asphalt. (Note that I am Designman, not Pilotman) LL~
-
Well Larry, I haven't had a chance to try out my planes with the dopeless finish.
-
And you continue to live in a climate like that??? Well, The Peoples' Republic of Califonikstan is crowded enough, but there is lots of room left near Tucson. Trostle left a magnificent house there. <=
-
Larry,
I'm getting ready to try monokote over polyspan. Do you dope the poly to individual ribs or just leading/trailing edge, tips, and center section?
Jim
-
Jim... just a butt inski here...but WHY?
Maybe I am not paying close enough attention
BUT--- I thought the exercise was to do a Fast and very Strong covering method--- USING poly/tissue/silk and then--- one of the super lite plastic coverings Like SLC, or thin FasCal/ mica film
IMO MonoKote--- or similar--- has already all the strength and color needed by it self
That said...I think the initial covering (tissue/poly span/silkspan/silk) is put on traditionally nice and tight on the perimeter and only ever needs stuck down to the ribs on a polywog rid set like a Ringmaster....all other rib types should be left free so the SLC/////ect,...can shrink and stick to the first covering without adding torque to the ribs or balsa wing
I use a lot of Poly span and silk on wings.
I think Larry Renger found a way for US to NOT have to add weight with Dope and Use the Lite coverings (SLC/Doculam/FadCal) as the shiny top cote and the added benefit ...by accident...was that the composite of the two coverings saved time, looked good...and structurally was tougher than traditional method using dope to fill the paper/tissue/cloth
Bottom line is...IMO MonoKote covering does all this by itself.... But that said--- no MonoKote can look or be as strong as a traditional silk n dope method or Larry Rengers discovery method
EDITED in after sending...Jim I DO NOT intend this to sound as harsh or judgement as it does....
Just curious how you arrived at following this method to think about using MonoKote over something else.... mostly because early on, I GOT the notion Larry was trying to show four things...Light weight, faster, looks good, stronger (an accidental by product IMO)
And BTW
NOT TO take away from Larry-- But I think Bobby Mears, INDEPENDENTLY--- found a very similar method so he could rapidly finish dozens of Nostalgia combat planes for the Combat Museum...IIRK He experimentee with fogging the back side of SLC/FasCal/Doculam with paints to simulate the Silk n Dope finish and found it was just as easy to do a polyspan heat shrunk and then the plastic and looked just like a silk n dope finish
-
Fred,
I want to try this for three reasons.
1. Primarily I'm hoping that by creating a composite covering that bonds together as it shrinks I can avoid the dreaded monokote sag that happens in the Arizona sun.
2. It seems like a great way to add strength with minimal weight gain and minimal additional time.
3. I'm always up for experimenting with new techniques.
Jim
-
Fully understand Jim....you are trading strength and durability for tightness and accepting the weight gain...
I might recommend Move on to Ultra kote as I think it holds it's tension better long term...I am in Texas with 130~150F on a 104F OAT day in the car is typical and the loosening of my films....all of them...is always an issue
OTOH I have read here that some think UltrKote is looser over time....not my personal experience but I only have 5 years experience/history to go by
-
Jim, if you want color go browse the posts I have made using poly-ester cloth(from Jo-Anns Frabrics) and the clear mylar(SLC).
-
Doping the ribs to smooth them out is good. Bonding the Polyspan to the ribs (when first covering) is bad because you want the material to slide around as it shrinks. Once shrunk, if you seal to the ribs using thinner would probably be OK and might improve torsional strength. Do NOT dope the entire fabric covering as it adds weight and creates bubble areas in the top covering.
Old free-flighters may remember double covering large models. Silkspan lightly doped with an overlay of Japanese tissue bonded down to it. Easy to get a slick finish and remarkably strong.
For large models, Monokote over Polyspan would still be lighter than a conventional dope finish, easier, quicker, slicker (than I can do, anyway) and way stronger.
-
I finally completed the re-build of my Sky Sport 1/2A (well, .061) stunter. The wing is the original, everything else is new.
Covering is lightweight Polyspan with park flyer type film applied over it. The Polyspan was attached with Mod Podge adhesive and the film has its own heat activated adhesive, so no dope was harmed in covering the wings.
Fuselage and tail are Klasskote epoxy.
-
Very nice. I like the transparent color.
-
Following along Larry Renger's simple instructions I covered 2 old Vintage kits. I haven't covered an open bay model for over 25 years. Piece of cake!(http://)
-
I am finishing up two more models per Larry's method. Have also flown the ones I have finished. Makes for quick finishes that shine. Also easy to wipe clean.
-
Paul G. built those models for his wife to learn on. So far the covering has proven more durable than other parts of the models. LL~
-
Hoooee! 32,000 + views! ;D
There aren't that many CL fliers, are there? ???
-
Crap Larry.. I bet I am about 500 of those 32000 views....grin
I found i interesting in another thread on MonoKote that the very early instructions suggested/recommended the $Kote film OVER silk-span
-
It works fantastic! The weight, by an actual test sample, is 1.46 oz/sq.yard. The structural rigidity it adds is amazing. I have some technique to work on as far as flawless tips, but the ones I did aren't horrible.
Now I need to work on how to properly paint it. I have a sample piece drying. It is Painters' Choice right on the steel wool buffed SLC.
Larry,
Works like a champ doesn't it? Next time add some trim to the plyspan before covering it with SLC. Use a spray adhesive and very lightly spray the back of the trim. Stay away from the trim 3 feet and spray above it and allow the adhesive to lightly fall onto the trim. Place the trim on the plyspan and lightly rub the trim in place (do not apply dope to the trim). The SLC will hold the trim in place when ironed on.
Later,
Mikey
-
Great idea on the trim! Thanks Mike. Probably could do trim Moneykote, vinyl, or just about anything. Magic markers, anyone?
-
Rebuilt an old silkspan covered Scorpion fast combat and covered it with SLC over Dacron. I used John Holiday's Mod Podge system to iron down the Dacron then used it to recoat the leading, trailing and tip edges for a belt and suspenders approach to ironing the SLC on. The yellow paint is an anxient can of Formula-U over sprayed with green RC car paint. The urethane stuck to the SLC quite well but don't have much hope for the 'candy' accent.
Ara
-
Just don't let the raw fuel sit on the graphics too long. Plane looks great. H^^
-
Several years and a couple of trips to Tucson later, the Ringmaster still looks pretty good. Anyone else have information on how well this technique stands up to the ravages of time?
-
Larry I basically no longe fly so my Fleet are all now you basic hanger queens hoping my progeny will some day fly again
I have several RST foam wing with SLC....flown and castor slime many times...cleaned and in flyable condition
I have two balsa wings, Ring master, and a Magician Poly-span adhered with dope then heat shrink, then SLC from Phil...NO fill in dope...strong, no sag, look pretty good for my 5 meter stand off grading......grin...
I bet when I crap out ...my son, just for pure nostalgia will de gum the engine..and fly the sucker into a perfect Figure Nine....Just as I did reliving the adventures of my father and me for 1958
-
Hi Guy's,
I had a real problem covering my new P-Force XL. I applied the red plyspan tissue to the model, then covered the model with the SLC and it looked AWESOME. I manage to stick the end of the inboard wing into a running overhead ceiling fan and destroyed the wing tip, leading edge sheeting, and three of the wing ribs. When I was inspecting the damage I noticed the tissue under the SCL wasn't attached to the cap strips. It may have been good enough but I wasn't happy with it at all.
After stripping the wing and repairing the damage area, I opted for UltraCoat covering to finish up the model. On my next model I'll apply a few coats of Stix-it to the capstrips and cover it using plyspan tissue and after applying the SLC, I'll rub the SLC to each of the wing cap strips with an iron. This should attach the plyspan and the SCL to each of the wing ribs and greatly increase the strength of the wing covering.
Later,
Mikey
-
I use Baslarite on the rib edges when I cover with the Polyspan just for the reason you mentioned. No issues doing it that way.
-
I don't recommend doping the poly-span/silk span to the ribs. I do shrink it before putting the clear mylar/SLC on. so far the covering has stayed tight and several places it looked like some thing tried to poke holes in it. A pass with the iron and all is good. Latest plane still looks good and is the one I'm building a stooge for.
-
I have recently been experimenting with turbulators (or vortex generators). I find that I must sand the film with 600 grit then clean it with lacquer thinner or acetone before bonding the generators in place. Otherwise, they eventually pop off. HB~>
Sand carefully, that film is THIN! n1
-
Here's my latest build using SLC over Polyspan. I really like using this method for these type planes. Saves tons of time and looks great. The "Able" is one of my original designs from 1960 when I was in high school. Flew it at the Vintage Combat Festival last Sunday.
-
Looks great. Do you have plans. Also you should do an article and publish it. H^^
-
Thanks, Doc. It flies great. Yes, I have the plans. Here's a copy.
-
Jim's ship is really very, very nice.
I especially like the tail feathers.
Saw it fly at the Vintage Combat Festival and it was very impressive.
-
Thanks, now to head for Staples. H^^
-
My Ringmaster is 5 years old. It has a couple of slit punctures and tip abrasions. I am thinking of a complete recovering job. Same routine as originally done. Lightweight Polyspan with parkflyer film overlay. Maybe Japanese tissue? Or “Doctor Paper”. Any thoughts out there on the choices?
The rest of the plane is Klass Kote epoxy, and no fuel soaking noticeable. Of course it may be a soggy mess under the Epoxy and no way to know it until the engine departs for the hinterlands.
Current power is an ABC L&J Fox 35. Just perfect power for the 29 ounce model. 10x5 Brodak Prop. 3 ounces for the OT pattern with laps to spare. .012 x 50’ lines and my EXPO, low overhang, hardpoint handle. Took 2nd behind John Wright (Gee, what a shock!) at the Hy Johnson meet last week. 2nd flight run was beautiful 2-4 break with no Fox burp.
Don’t need no stinkin’ modern engines! (Actually, my FP 20 seems to be a better choice, but one must be loyal to the Duke!)
Plenty of kits for the handle left (blatant commercial inserted). ;D
-
Dang, after 5 years of mistreatment there are some scrapes and holes in the Ringmaster’s covering. I may strip it and redo, or put clear tape over the breaks.
The fuselage has been broken behind the wing courtesy of three different people stepping on then kicking my lines at VSC this year. (Hmmm, enemy action? Can’t believe I am good enough to warrant it.) Plus a couple of inverted landings. It ain’t a virgin no more.
My ABC Fox 35 gives a great 2/4 performance. 2 3/4 ounces of fuel for the OT pattern. 10x5 Brodak prop, 10/22 fuel. Currently flying 50x.012 lines, but may try longer lines with a higher pitch prop. Then pick up the nitro as needed to keep up the lap time.
Still weighs under 30 ounces even with an ounce of tail weight. Epoxy basecoat on the fuselage nose and Klasskote finish, so no oil soaking. Carbon fiber veil on the fuselage and horizontal tail. Pinned hinges aligned with a single wire. At rest the elevator just flops right down. No apparent friction in the system.
Sadly, my Ceramic Fox crankshaft broke the crankpin off, so it needs a rebuild. Ty Marcucci sent me a complete engine, but it is so cherry that I can’t bear to strip it for the crank! A good machine needs the respect it deserves!
Thanks to Andy Borgogna, I have an even lighter Ringmaster with an OS20 fp to fly. So I can strip mine and rework it at my leisure.
Sadly, Andy has Rotaror Cuff problems that will keep him from CL flying in the future. A sad state of affairs, but he will still be with us flying (gasp) RC. And he will still be a resource as the West Coast electric power guru. I still think he could fly 1/2A models without pain, but no luck so far.
The SkySport covering is still in great shape. This technique seems to be really durable.
Anyone done a painted finish on SLC over Polyspan and how did it come out and last?
-
Wow, pushing 38K hits! Who’d a thunk it! Now, how many are using this system other than Doc Holliday and me?
Multiple models show that the system works great. Don’t just read about it, use it and tell of your experience and especially any improved techniques.
So far, Mpd Podge for initial fiber covering adhesion, followed by SLC or Park Flyer film is great for most models. I haven’t tried it, but for a larger model, Silk and Monokote ought to be pretty bulletproof,
The key to this system is that the film bonds to the fiber making a strong composite structure that is stronger and lighter than a conventional dope filed finish. If you plan to paint, it eliminates all the filler coats. One light roughing with steel wool and ready for primer or silver under base.
-
For get the steel wool, use a scouring foam pad. At least that is what I'm using now. D>K
Just wanted to show my latest finish on sport planes. Did use epoxy around the engine compartment. No dope, doctor paper under the laminate clear.
-
i have some Doctor paper, but haven’t used it except for dry balsa covering, never open bay. It does have wet strength, but does it wet shrink? How good it is a replacement for old silkspan?
Your wing tips look perfect, does it conform wet or do you use separate tip strips? Tell all!
-
Larry, I tried to apply doctor paper slightly damp the first time I had it. What a mess. Using the Mod Podge I put it on dry and it does shrink some after applied. D>K
-
I have a Ringmaster and a SkySport both covered in film over Polyspan. Both years old and still in great shap despite abuse! #^
-
Hi, Larry-
Thinking ahead towards finishing a Magician for a buddy I am building, I am wondering about getting trim colors onto the finished product without painting. Essentially, I want it between the polyspan and the SLC layer.
I am thinking two ideas-
1. Polyspan covering, then colored tissue in my trim color areas, then SLC.
2. Polyspan covering, then transparent or opaque film covering in my trim covering areas, the SLC over.
Any commentary for either of these ideas? Have you done this before? I would love to use the tissue, but I am concerned about the dope or other material needed for attachment causing bubbles under the SLC when heated.
Thanks,
Target
-
How about a light spray of spray adhesive on the back of the tissue? No dope, just enough to keep it in place while doing the SLC.
-
Ok, i hadn't thought of that, thanks. Would the Modge Podge work as well?
-
Being water based, I think it would distort the tissue decorations.
-
Ah ha....
OK thank you Larry!!
-
[quote
Hi, Larry-
Thinking ahead towards finishing a Magician for a buddy I am building, I am wondering about getting trim colors onto the finished product without painting. Essentially, I want it between the polyspan and the SLC layer.
.
Thanks,
Target
[/quote]
You are building a buddy? LL~
-
I have done colored parkflyer film over Polyspan with great, long lasting results. ;D
I was wondering if anyone went the next step and applied a paint finish over the laminate? With proper scuffing of SLC, it is supposed to take paint just fine. I think I read of someone painting directly over the film without the fiber underlayer.
Input? Anyone? ???
-
Yes, buff the SLC surface to a dull texture. No sheen anywhere you want paint. D>K
-
Sounds like a great way to cover a model.
What I don't understand is how do you keep the overlap from showing when you paint?
Or do you do both top and bottom together?
If you take the time, seal the edges by sliding/rolling the iron across the top layer edge to really seal it down. The covering is less than 1 mil thick. very few people can reliably feel that, and only with soft, clean fingertips. Seal the edges with primer and sand the edges smooth before finishing the prime.
-
The upshot of,this,is that SLC over polyspan is lighter, tougher and quicker than a dope finish. No pre doping the framework, if you use Mod Podge. Wrinkles eliminated with a hot iron.
The whole process is water based, indoor, no smell. Also, probably less expensive and way less time consuming than multiple coats of dope with proper drying time.
Color can be dyed into the tissue, or sprayed onto the back of iron on film, or the film can be the color.
If you want a conventional finish, roughen the SLC with a Scotchbrite pad before application, cover as usual (with SLC over tissue) And go directly to your base color or blocking color.
-
My goodness! Over 41,000 hits on this string.
So who else besides Doc Holiday and I are actually using this process?
Speak up!
-
I too am surprised not more people have tried this. Even Sandy the poodle likes the shop not having the dope smell as well as the thinners and cleaners. D>K
-
Nice job!
I also used Microlite on my Ringmaster an SkySport models.
-
At the AMA EXPO, the guy in the free-flight booth was covering his model with wet tissue. It turns out to be Esaki tissue. Amazingly, it is about as light as Japanese tissue!
I plan to try it instead of Polyspan on my next model under SLC! Lighter is good! ;D
-
I blush to admit that the Klaus Kote epoxy is not adhering to the park flyer film near the fuselage of my Sky Sport. Mind you, this is after several years of flying it.
What results have the rest of you gotten painting over film?
-
Larry,
When I use MonoKote over the flying surfaces and KlassKote on the fuselage, I generally try to overlap with the paint at least a 1/4". Often, I paint further over the plastic for a scallop paint job. I have not noticed any adhesion or separation problems yet. (Maybe I'd better go look closer?) Some of these paint jobs are 10+ years old now. I do prep the plastic for paint by masking my paint line, then scuffing up to it with gray Scotchbrite followed by a wipe down with alcohol. This truly gets it clean, and gives more tooth for the paint. I prefer not to use KK primer over the plastic.
Dave
PS--We were all impressed by your flight on the 1/2A on Sunday. The vertical eights had three or four of us talking....
-
Anybody new trYing this? And how is it working out for you?
A local flyer has silkspan over SLC and it it OK, but not as nice as if he Had done the other way. Rough surface, and of course subject to fuel damage.
-
I've finished several planes now with the new process. As an exoeriment I put super Monkote over the doc paper.. Good on wings but won't do it again on the fuse. D>K
-
Just an odd -tangential - thought...
About 40 years ago, I did an All American, Sr., as follows. Stock wing structure (C-TUBE. plenty strong.) Clear Monokote on the wings. May have buffed the surface lightly with green Scotch-Brite (3 days old to reduce the 'cutting' surface.) Thorough wipe with straight Acetone, and care to NOT touch the surface with oily fingers before a light dusting with clear (btw, classic, i.e., pre-EPA, AeroGloss, which I miss very much!)
Wipe with isopropyl alcohol and 'no-touch' care before color coats, 'plasticized' of course - a few drops of castor per ounce. Seemed to last, not compromise the Monokote strength, and needed nothing more to make a durable, NICE finish. No edge seeping, no separations. Seemed light! No numbers on that, but back then, few if any troubled to do that.
Not so much on that AA, Sr., but noticeable on a few later planes - masking the trim was a gamble. Adhesion against normal wear and tear was fine, but lifting the masking tape off was chancy. (I learned that 'breaking' the sticking power of even low-tack mask by laying the sticky side along my forearm before applying it to the mode, helped. Did not cure it. No hair on the 'bottom' of my arms, so no pain. H^^ )
Anyway, that AA, Sr., lasted several years, and even survived quite a bit of experimentation. E.g., tried a left-hand shaft Fox 35 (factory shaft, -then.) LH - or "pusher" props were available in many sizes, again, - then.
FYI - engine flew identically as with stock RH shaft, and was converted after many hours as stock. Only difference noted, other than punching the pavement during starting, was MUCH easier takeoffs (it didn't turn in, or droop the left wing from torque.) If tipweight were adjustable, I could have removed most, or all, of it. (Favorable torque...)
-
Has anyone used this technique on a (shudder, gasp) RC model? Dare we let the DARK SIDE know? ???
-
Has anyone used this technique on a (shudder, gasp) RC model? Dare we let the DARK SIDE know? ???
RC assist 1942 Michael LaTorre Alert. Rear Fuselage is SLC over dress shop Dacron/Rayon.
Ara
-
Nice! I love the exhaust routing! No mess! H^^
-
OK, we have had a number of success stories, has anyone encountered problems and can offer solutions?
My only difficulty was inadequate prep in painting over the film and having the paint peel off. An easy fix with an Acetone wipe, proper abrasion and repaint.
Actually, also, adhesion problems for my turbo generators, they tend to pop off and get lost. (cheap, short sections of HO GAGUE plastic extrusion, so no big deal)
I have found the covering extremely resistant to damage from mistreatment (inverted landings under power on asphalt) :-[
Also, pretty good at resisting temperature changes, though not perfect.
What is your experience?
-
Only problem really is keeping APC props from poking holes. I do have one that needs refinishing as the paint(Rustoleum) is peeling off. I think the NAPA Primer is the problem. D>K
-
We are getting a lot of hits on this thread recently! I love it. But is anyone actually using the technique? And would they please show and tell here if they are?
-
Good on wings but won't do it again on the fuse. D>K
I'm intrigued by this process.
Why not the fuse please?
-
Yes, I have done fuselage. Go read the posts in the finishing section. D>K
-
Which post Doc? There are an awful lot of them.
-
Larry,
Is there a new source for SLC?
I didnt think Phil was getting anymore.
Tom
-
Which post Doc? There are an awful lot of them.
As lazy as I am and you want me to go look. It would have to be last year or late 2019. D>K
-
I looked at the last four pages for your posts and missed seeing anything. It would have to be imbedded in another thread.
So, what was the problem with doing fuselages? We would love to know.
-
Gents,
I've never seen SLC. Is this a micro-thin plastic like DocLam? I ask because I am a dope and tissue guy willing to try new things. But in Mississippi, there are no resources for stuff like we use.
Thanks much!
-
Jim with exception of Hobby Lobby EVERY thing to Lampasas is mail order
Super Lite Covering was so very thin but strong clear covering heat shrink the Phil Cartier supplied with his foam wing kits and sold by the 100 foot or smaller sample length
2 or so years ago his supplier of SLC crapped out and the all the replacements he found are not quite the same, and he isn't getting any cuz the min order is way to many miles of film from what I understand
Doculam, FasCal and other heat shrink and glue film with or without backings are available from many sources...I will send you some SLC as a teaser
-
Also I use the park fLyer weight iron on coverings. They come in just about any color you want. For a large model the weight penalty of standard Monokote or SOLARFILM would not be a problem, still less than a full paint finish.
We have a member in our club who is an executive in a sign/printing shop. They use two weights of laminating film for signs and documents. You could probably beg or buy some from a local shop.
-
Look at “My name is my Steve … thread” for some more comments.
-
Gee whizz. Over 48000 views and no one is posting photos of their experience with this technique?
Frankly, I have a guy in my club who persists in putting the film under the tissue. Looks like rough tissue as finished, not a slick finish that SLC can achieve. And heavier as he needs to dope the tissue.
Some people just won’t listen.
On the other hand, the hits to this thread just keep on coming. Are there really 48,000 of you out there?
-
I saw a Ringmaster with clear covering. The bare wing structure was dyed, tinted ,painted or something else and ,of course, visible through the covering. A nice touch. One of the Ehling brothers I think.
-
If you've run out of SLC and like it you're in luck. I finally wangled a new order, posted elsewhere. It's slightly heavier, 1 il instead 0.75mil. That works out to around 1-1/4 ounce on a large size stunter instead of 1 oz.
Pricing is new, as always prices tend to go up, which they did. Since it hasn't changed I suspect most manufacturers are trying to recoup some of the losses in 2020 and early 2021. The film is also 18 in. wide, up from the previous 15in. to avoid scrap.
Sample: 10 ft x 1.5 ft, $15 plus shipping if its over $6. Shipped into a USPS mailer.
100ft x 1.5ft. $35 plus shipping- usually under $10 east of the Mississippi, max around $15 to the west coast.
200ft. x 1.5ft $70 plus shipping- usually under $25 east of the Mississippie, max around $30 to the west coast.
philcartier@earthlink.net working now, mostly. Depends on how much it gets dumped on.
phone: 1-717-566-3810 leave a message on the machine if I don't pick up.
cell: 717-798-2808 text or message- I'm still learning cell phones so this is the least reliable.
Cheers Fly Well and Often!
Phil Cartier
-
[quote author=Larry Renger
Frankly, I have a guy in my club who persists in putting the film under the tissue. Looks like rough tissue as finished, not a slick finish that SLC can achieve. And heavier as he needs to dope the tissue.
Some people just won’t listen.
[/quote]
That model is about a year old and the finish is really degraded. My Ringmaster and SkySport models are still bright and shiney after up to 5 years of flying.
-
No matter the base covering, silk, ply-span, poly ester, silk span, the top covering of slc or mylar makes for a stronger finish and cleans up a lot easier. I'm sold on it. H^^
-
Thanks Doc! ;D
For anything but a front row Nats finish (incredible amount of work) why hasn’t this caught on as standard practice? Cheap (priced dope recently?) and incredibly easy and unbelievably durable.
The finish, being a slick mylar surface, cleans up easier than a basic dope finish. And it is way lighter than a dope finish of equivalent quality. Also, absolutely no fuel residue degradation of the finish, none, nada, nicht, nein, non, nothing, ninguno!
Plus it adds lots of durability to the airframe since it forms a composite shell structure on the wing. Trust me I have unfortunately had occasion to test this. HB~>
What’s not to like? ???
-
Sorry, I didn't discover this thread until a few days ago. I've done some experimenting with laminating film (SLC is thin polyester laminating film) over tissue. This Sneeker was covered with exam table paper attached with thinned white glue using gift wrap attached with spray adhesive as trim then 1.5 mil laminating film over the top. See more about laminating film in general for covering models at http://flyinglines.org/gp.col18.html .
-
I have used SLC over silkspan on foam wings, with dope and epoxy finishes. I have used Polyspan over built up wings with both finishes. Today was the first time I used Polyspan/ Mod-Podge/ SLC on a built up wing. It worked great. It was very easy, and unlike doped-down Polyspan, you can heat and stretch around wingtips to get them perfect.
I didn't find a lot of details about the Mod-Podge application, but then I didn't look terribly hard. I used the gloss Mod-Podge with the orange and white label. I applied two coats in a single session, straight from the bottle, with a 2" foam brush. I let it dry for about 12 hours. I ironed the Polyspan down at 300 degrees (with a sock on the iron). I trimmed the edges with no overlap, since any overlap would require additional Mod-Podge to stick down. Then I applied the SLC at the same temperature, and left 1/4"- 3/8" overlapping seams. The entire wing will get scuffed, then sprayed with Klass-Kote for color and seam sealing.
One question or comment I have for others who have done this. The surface of the Polyspan is a bit fuzzy (yes, I know about the smooth side vs. fuzzy side) and imparts a texture to the SLC, but only over the solid areas. Too much heat, not enough, too much Mod-Podge? Any ideas? I tried test pieces with only a single coat of Mod-Podge, but wasn't satisfied with the adhesion. Regardless, I will certainly be using this covering method again in the future.
-
I wanted to know if the Mod Podge will stick the Polyspan to a undercambered airfoil ? Do I use the Mod Podge directly out of the bottle? It seems quite thick.
-
Larry,
I like the approach to get a composite covering. Do you or have or anyone tried using this technique with Monokote or Ultracoat as the top cover to give it color? Should work about the same as the SLC and save more weight over paints that will stick to the plastic cover. I think the poly would give the Kotes the rigidity that they lack and still give a pretty good looking and light finish.
I re-read the early posts to this thread and see that the Mono and Ultra kotes have been done. I am interested to keep weight down. I'm thinking the lighter Econo kote weight film might work really well with this approach. I want to use this over sheet surfaces so not sure what to adhere the polyspan then the kote on top. I'm thinking that the poly could be adhered with one coat of Balsarite for film then iron on the film over it.
Best, DennisT
-
Yes, I have done the MonoKote over the doc paper. Makes for a strong surface. Remember not to seal the open bays of doc paper. D>K
-
On the other hand, the hits to this thread just keep on coming. Are there really 48,000 of you out there?
Nope, I just keep coming back to it a bunch! Tomorrow will be 48,001.
Mr. Doc,
Why leave the open bays unsealed? I would think the SLC adhesive would stick easier to a sealed/sanded smooth surface vs a porous one. Or does the adhesive melt into the paper? Weight minimizing?
Thanks much.
-
MM/Larry,
Do you shrink the polyspan tight before applying the film then shrink the film? How do you get the film to adhere to the polyspan over the open bay section without bubbles? Iron, heat gun with soft glove??
For me the only reason to use the color film over the polyspan is to improve rigidity of the structure and get color without needing to paint. From what was posted early in this thread it should work. I will be trying it on flat sheet. In the past I have done 1/2oz fiberglass adhered with Balsarite for film then MonoKote over. This worked very well but I think the polyspan with the heat shrink ability will get a very smooth substrate for the Kote to adhere to. Using the light films should keep the weight down and still give a nice finish for the model.
Best, DennisT
-
Yes, shrink the polyspan first. Since the polyspan hasn't been sealed with anything, it is porous. Air can't be trapped. The film can be ironed down over the open bays with light pressure. The biggest advantages for painted SLC instead of 'kote is the ability to have any color or colors you desire, and also the paint permanently seals the seams for maximum longevity of the model. If neither of these is important to your particular project, then 'kote away!
-
Very important to leave the polyspan unsealed so you don’t trap air under the film.
I used lightweight Polyspan and park flyer lightweigh film on a Ringmaster. 5 years old and still looks great. #^
-
Phil Cartier of CoreHouse used to be the source. I don't know what he is selling now> You might check with him. H^^
-
Mr. Bill/Mr. Larry,
Bubble reduction...Thanks. That makes sense.
48,006...chuckles!
-
Larry,
So, just what the heck IS SLC, and where do we get it?
I know the process for silkspan and dope, etc., but what is the SLC?
I would be more than happy to put a lighter, stronger finish on the airplane, but have no idea what the SLC is.
Please explain.
Thanks,
Doug.
Hi Doug,
Happy New Year Doug, and a belated Christmas !!
You can get SLC from me, Phil Cartier. The newest stuff was a cast iron bxxxx to get. So I ordered the company's minimum. I wasn't going to buy a car anyway.
SLC is 1 mil(.001in) thick 0olyester film and stronger that the previous film. It uses the same adhesive which will stick to most surfaces with moderate heat. The temp is low enough to go directly on foam plastics. wood, paints, etc.
It comes 18in. wide at no extra cost. A sample, ~10ft long is $15, shipped USPS in the cont,US. The "Small" roll is 100 ft. Cost is $35 plus shipping- usually less than $10 except to some areas along the West Coast. The "Large" roll is 200ft. $70 plus shipping. The extra weight cost a bit more $15 or so.
I'd prefer phone orders- 717-566-3810 to Hummelstown PA. 34 Sweet Arrow Dr. Zip 17036. Paymet by check or money order. I can send Total cost and shipping to email address or via phone or a message here.
I've had a lot of problems for quite a while with PayPal. They've changed the workflow all over the site, apparently are starting "dues", and are extremely hard to get any useful help from them.
-
Thought I'd try this out on a free flight wing. Took a Guillow Arrow wing and covered it with orange gift wrap tissue, painted some flashes and covered it with .0015" laminating film we used to cover Combat planes with (Medium Light Covering?). With the beefy wood in Guillow kits, the shrinking didn't warp the wing. Used the wing on both a free flight and RC plane. Both flew well. The wing gained 4.4 grams (.16 oz) with the addition of the MLC. Don't know how much weight gain would have resulted with dope.
Ara
-
How is the covering holding up? H^^
-
How is the covering holding up? H^^
Hello Larry,
The SLC covering has held up very well. I flew the wing on the RC plane throughout the summer and it hasn't delaminated or blistered. It looks like I just put it on.
Ara
-
Come on Doug you been on here long enough to know SLC means Super Light Covering. It has been covered in the finishing section ever since Larry introduce the procedure to us. It does make for a stronger surface with the combination of materials. I also believe it is lighter than dope and silkspan. Some good pictures of results in finishing section. S?P
Now to finish my first cup of coffee. D>K
-
Gentlemen,
Does SLC shrink more in one direction than the other? That is, do I need to be concerned about a grain like silkspan or DocSpan?
Thanks in advance.
-
In my experience no. D>K
-
Check out Doc’s new thread on a refinishing job. Maybe he will put a completed photo here? 😃
-
He finished it and it looks great! 👍
-
Sorry Larry, but this one is now all Mono-Kote finish over what i couldn't get off of the doc paper and mylar. D>K
The gray is before.
-
Doc you must be quite the prolific builder. Stripping off a dope finish to a completely new monokote finish in no time. Great job.
-
SLC is “super light covering”. Look for Phil Cartier in classifieds. It is a Mylar film with heat sensitive adhesive.
-
Y’know, with 56000 + hits on this thread, we need some more photos of models using this technique. Surely the good Doc isin’t alone in seeing the benefits.
No dope, light weight, tough as nails, what is keeping you guys? 🤠
With light park flyer transparent film over light polyspan it looks like the best free flight finish. And is togher and lighter.
👍
-
Now I was just think’in, what if you bonded a layer of carbon veil over the polyspan and then overcoated it with film, it would easilystand up to just about anything and still be very light. 🤠
Spray adhesive to stick the carbon down on the polyspan then the SLC to finish the composite covering.
🤔
-
I think this thread rates getting pinned to the top to make it easier to find. I think it's been well proven!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
-
Hey, the old DOC has almost made it bullet proof without the carbon veil. I think I have posted pics of the planes I have done. Well my latest is waiting for fuse to be covered. D>K
-
Question: I want to have a medium blue color as the base, I was thinking I could use medium silkspan as the base then UltraCote Parklite film cover (to save weight over the full UltaCote). Do you think the silkspan will give the parklite additional strength and wrinkle resistance as the SLC seems too?
I know this is a very long thread but it contains a lot of good information and ways to approach covering.
Best, DennisT
-
Try it and let us know. Never know something until you try it. Like the mylar applications I have done it as base coat and on another plane did it as top coat For me it elleminates a lot of dope with mylar on top. D>K
-
Question: I want to have a medium blue color as the base, I was thinking I could use medium silkspan as the base then UltraCote Parklite film cover (to save weight over the full UltaCote). Do you think the silkspan will give the parklite additional strength and wrinkle resistance as the SLC seems too?
I know this is a very long thread but it contains a lot of good information and ways to approach covering.
Best, DennisT
Parklite fim works just fine. I used on a couple of planes and it has stood up well over several years of hard use.
-
SLC is”super light covering” a thin Mylar with heat sensitive adhesive coating.
Oftenavailsble at sign shops who use for laminating documents.
Any of the “park flyer” films will also work fine.
🤠
-
Well the old DOC just tried to get on Phil's Corehouse site. What I came up with is=t does not show his SLC. But if a person does a search for Mylar material you will find several places that have shrinkable mylar. D>K
-
Hey guys, 62,000 + views and more every day. Is anyone but Doc Holiday using the technique, and if so, who, where and how did it work for you? C’mon give! H^^
-
Larry,
I know this is likely to be sacrilege, but I have a dyed-tissue-over-clear plastic job in my garage. Only issue is that it is only one half of a wing. Dunno where the rest went, but definitely missing. So is the fuselage and all the rest. I lucked out and got the wing half with the AMA number still on it. Very nicely dun up, so the prior owner prolly was significantly upset. And since it came from Whittier, I suppose one of the G'Knights would recommunize the individual that is doing yer favorite covering system all backwards. Who knows, mebbe some of them other Knights (Knaves?) have already gotten on him and if he got reformed, he's built everything since in the right order...?
That might be your existence theorem for SLC modified stuntskins....other than Doc himself. After all, he tried doctor paper, pharmacist's paper, kinesthesiologist's paper, and maybe some others.
The Divot
-
As mentioned before, the appeal of SLC over tissue, especially using ModPoge adhesive is that no dope or clear coat are needed. Tough, fuel PROOF and high gloss. 🤠
Oh yes, rigid, tough as nails and light weight. What more can you want?
If you really must, it is paint ready with only surface scuffing. No primer needed.
For larger models, use heavier colored films. The tissue under layer will help stabilize the covering in hotter conditions.
-
Well, Larry--I'm glad you asked. Since paintin' and finishin' just ain't my thing, I want a covering and paint system that has kinetic autogenesis. That is, I put the wood airframe on the bench in the shop. Then, I unroll the covering right next to it. If the covering takes adhesive, well, I want to open the can or bottle or whatever and put that on the bench, too. Take some cans of paint and do the same deal. Then I want to turn off the light, and shut the door and come back the next day to a bee-uutiful airplane, fuelproof and ready to go.
I mean, since you were asking, "what more could I want?"
The Divot
-
i have tried silkspan over SLC, in my opinion too heavy for a competitive F2b plane finish, and after primer, paint and buffing you cannot see that it was paper doped.
i still stick with my paint over monokote method as a light, fast and good finish method.
last picture you can see the mokoted red and paint over, not detrimental to the finish looks.
unless i am missing something here, what is the great advantage of the method of slc/polyspan?
-
The idea is to apply the paper, then the SLC. The SLC provides the slick, sealed surface for painting, just like painting over Monokote. The paper or polyspan underneath provides the strength and rigidity, and since it's porous, there are no trapped air bubbles when you apply the SLC.
-
The idea is to apply the paper, then the SLC. The SLC provides the slick, sealed surface for painting, just like painting over Monokote. The paper or polyspan underneath provides the strength and rigidity, and since it's porous, there are no trapped air bubbles when you apply the SLC.
then why not cut time and weight going with monokote? it´s already painted with the base color and can be painted over. the strenght is perfect as i have used on i-beams and about 15 F2B competitive planes for a longe time, so no warps, twists or flexing are of any concern.
maybe worth a try on monokote, if properly sealed over the surface and ribs, it will lock and strenght the wing.
i have used a lot on 2-3 meters sailplanes with far less structure and a huge demand on strenght while being high speed towed up and never had an issue.
food for though
regards
-
Film over tissue is stonger and lighter. Period! Try it and then comment. If you haven’t tried it you know nothing about it.
I have extensive experience with plain Monokote, and in So. Cal. hot weather it turns to mush.
Give film over tissue a shot and then we can listen to your opinion.
🤠
-
Film over tissue is stonger and lighter. Period! Try it and then comment. If you haven’t tried it you know nothing about it.
I have extensive experience with plain Monokote, and in So. Cal. hot weather it turns to mush.
Give film over tissue a shot and then we can listen to your opinion.
🤠
I have been pro modelling for the last 35 years of my life with about 300+ planes built ( from c/l to 1/3 scale jets r/c) and while doing that lived on 3 parts of the huge country of Brazil, each of the 3 cities had either inclement sun or cold, and betwen them a tropical zone ( with a mix of annoying hot to chilling cold) so i belive i have a bit of experience with covering materials and finishes, plus, having my own planes weekly exposed to the weather.
film sags? yes, a bit, but a quick heat gun from time to time put it back in shape.
lately i have switched my method and the film is bonded entirely to the plane while covering and this prevented the sag 90%.
never had a structural failure. So my goal it´s the lightest / good looking finish to achieve, and pretty much film painted do that.
this plane have a 57" wingspan and fully loaded for flight weights 1600 grams. i see no reason to add weight.
anyway, modellers have choices and should work with what aorks better for them and suits the needs
if you´re happy and having sucess with the polyspan/slc method, that´s a nice thing
regards from Brazil
-
I’m not saying Monokote doesn’t work, but film over tissue is better. Try it and see. 🤠
-
I’m not saying Monokote doesn’t work, but film over tissue is better. Try it and see. 🤠
i still see no point on doing that, i will end up with the outer surface monokote like, and with weight penalty and no strenght advantage.
but whatever works for each one will do
regards
-
Where is the link to purchase the slc? what are the dimensions to purchase? Width and thickness?
-
Was reading thru the May 1962 issue of American Modeler. A tip from CWO Frank Buldra from Edwards AFB described his method of covering a wing first with Saran wrap and dope, then covering with silk. While it doesn't say, I suspect it is a method of avoiding excessive dope building up inside and making a mess of things--and perhaps obviating the whole "dope from underneath" thing. The Saran was stuck down with Pliobond. Not sure how well the dope would stick the silk down to the Saran, though....
I suppose NASA's BoPeep is the better stuff nowadays.
-
Larry,
When doing the film over tissue I assume it is silkspan (ish) what weight do you use? Second, how many coats of clear do you give it? Third, can you use Mono/Ultra/China color film over it and does the tissue keep it from bubbling?
Best, DennisT
-
I use lightweight Polyspan stuck down with ModPoge as a heat activated adhesive. Do NOT dope the tissue!
I prefer light weight Park flyer style film as the overcoat. If you want a painted finish SLC is very light.
The film sticks to the tissue everywhere making it a composit similar to MICAFILM.
The result is remarkably light and tough.
🤠
-
I use lightweight Polyspan stuck down with ModPoge as a heat activated adhesive. Do NOT dope the tissue!
I prefer light weight Park flyer style film as the overcoat. If you want a painted finish SLC is very light.
The film sticks to the tissue everywhere making it a composit similar to MICAFILM.
The result is remarkably light and tough.
🤠
Larry, do you prepare the balsa? Do you use ModPoge to edge glue the Polyspan then paint through the polyspan after shrinking? I have had good results with monokote over two coats of ModPoge sanded very smooth. You have to watch the heat or it will bubble up under the monokote. How is your SLC on compound curves. Tips, fillets, fuselages etc. I can see how having a surface like polyspan would make a better base than balsa with less lifting later on. This looks like it has potential but I am far from sold.
Ken
-
Ken, I have found that two coats of Mod Podge brushed over wing, except for the cap strips, provides good bonding of the Polyspan when it is ironed on. No additional doping or other coating is necessary. The SLC irons over the "bare" Polyspan. Since the Polyspan is porous, you can't trap air bubbles. If you can work with Monokote, you should have no problems with SLC. I like the fact that painting seals all the seams against fuel seepage. For electric, obviously that's not important. I also like that it be painted any color, even fades or camouflage with "soft" edges. If you're happy with the choice of colors available from Monokote or Ultracote, then this may not be significant to you either. I found the process to be a good fit for my Slow Rat racer, which leads an oily, "rough'n'tumble" life. Ask me about any time you see me at the field.
Bill Bischoff
-
Raw polyspan over ModPoge does not bubble. No treatment after basic covering.
Then the film can adhere to the tissue perfectly. No sealant on the tissue allows perfect bonding over the entire surface.
After tacking the Polyspan down to the balsa the film covers without any problems. No more finish required. The film can be the final finish or base coat for final paint finish. No primer or filler needed.
The composite tissue and film duplicates multiple dope coats, filler, sanding and primer. No fumes, way quicker, probably smoother.
As I keep saying: try it then comment.
For more detail. Read this thread from the beginning. There are photos of how it works.
Just give it a try. Experience will answer all your questions.
Build a “junk” model to try it out on. Nobody doesn’t need an extra Ringmaster or Twister for those “bad weather “ days. You will be stunned by the toughness of composite covering. I, sadly, have found it resistant to inverted landings on asphault.
😢
🤠
-
I have been remiss in my reporting. I have gone back through this entire 5 page thread and have found the following flyers have used this technique. No negative comments!
Doc Holliday
Rick Huff
Dennis Lipset
Jim Vigani
Mike Griffen
Paul Gibeault
Mikey Pratt
Ara Dedekian
Fred Von Gortier IV
Gene Pape
Bill Bichoff
Thanks one and all for your trying it out! Let us know how it worked out for you long term.
🤠
-
I have been remiss in my reporting. I have gone back through this entire 5 page thread and have found the following flyers have used this technique. No negative comments!
Doc Holliday
Rick Huff
Dennis Lipset
Jim Vigani
Mike Griffen
Paul Gibeault
Mikey Pratt
Ara Dedekian
Fred Von Gortier IV
Gene Pape
Bill Bichoff
Thanks one and all for your trying it out! Let us know how it worked out for you long term.
🤠
Larry, Where's my name? I used this method on my Shark 402 and it was "AWESOME"!
Jerry Arana
-
Sorry if I missed you! How did it work out on the long term? 🤠
If I am counting correctly, including myself, we have 14 pilots who have tried the system. The old Doc and I have related long term use. What about the rest of you?
🤠
-
How is your SLC on compound curves. Tips, fillets, fuselages etc. I can see how having a surface like polyspan would make a better base than balsa with less lifting later on. This looks like it has potential but I am far from sold.
Ok, I have gone back over the 10 years of this thread and I am willing to give it a try. I am a big fan of polyspan so why not. Where do I go to get both the polyspan and the SLC?
Ken
-
How did it work out on the long term? 🤠
🤠
Larry, I don't know. It was great for a season with me, then I sold it to Kim and he wrecked it...........
But, it probably would still be flying if not for the mishap Kim had.
Cheers, Jerry
-
See the Core House in the classifieds for SLC.
-
See the Core House in the classifieds for SLC.
The link doesn't work. I also can't find a source for Polyspan. Help me Obwan.. LL~
-
Sorry to hear that Phil is not responding! Perhaps he will chime in here. I think he recently said he was back in stock.
Many sign shops use the film, and wil be able to sell you a yard or two. Perhaps someone on this forum will have a source.
Frankly, I have always used light weight park flyer covering. It works just fine as a colored, film finish, and seems to be incredibly durable applied over polyspan. Like for years! And evil flight events. 😱
If the model is large just use Monokote or Orafilm. The key is to produce a composite, bulletproof covering with no doping required.
The tissue stabilizes the film and eliminates rips in the event of an abrasion or puncture. Don’t ask me how I know.
Also seems to eliminate temperature flexing and provides extra torsion resistance to structure. The tissue, undoped adds very little to the model weight compared to a dope/paint finish of equivalent appearance.
Monokote/orafilm is fine alone, but overall, just doesn’t compare.
And, if you still want a painted finish, you eliminate the dope and filler and primer steps. Brush scuffed film is ready for color coats over a white base.
Read the whole thread to answer just about any questions.
🤠
-
Sorry to hear that Phil is not responding! Perhaps he will chime in here. I think he recently said he was back in stock.
Many sign shops use the film, and wil be able to sell you a yard or two. Perhaps someone on this forum will have a source.
Frankly, I have always used light weight park flyer covering. It works just fine as a colored, film finish, and seems to be incredibly durable applied over polyspan. Like for years! And evil flight events. 😱
If the model is large just use Monokote or Orafilm. The key is to produce a composite, bulletproof covering with no doping required.
The tissue stabilizes the film and eliminates rips in the event of an abrasion or puncture. Don’t ask me how I know.
Also seems to eliminate temperature flexing and provides extra torsion resistance to structure. The tissue, undoped adds very little to the model weight compared to a dope/paint finish of equivalent appearance.
Monokote/orafilm is fine alone, but overall, just doesn’t compare.
And, if you still want a painted finish, you eliminate the dope and filler and primer steps. Brush scuffed film is ready for color coats over a white base.
Read the whole thread to answer just about any questions.
Tissue or silk over film saves some dope and provides the same structural and stability benefits, but ends much heavier for the same level of appearance. Who need all those layers of dope and filler?
🤠
-
Does paint over doculam lift when pulling off tape?
-
Ok I finally found some doculam at a decent price. It comes in 1.5 and 3mm. I got the 1.5. I still can't find a source for Polyspan.
Ken
-
I hope one of our readers will provide a source. Silkspan will also work just fine. One guy actually had success with gift wrap tissue.
-
Might try these guys: https://www.faimodelsupply.com/
Mike
Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
-
Might try these guys: https://www.faimodelsupply.com/
Mike
Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
They have it in stock. Looks a bit light but that's OK. Price was reasonable. Now we just wait for the film and Polyspan to get here.
Ken
-
THANKS! They has it in stock. Looks a bit light but that's OK. Price was reasonable. Now we just wait for the film and Polyspan to get here.
Ken
-
If you are using white tissue and clear film, you can cut decorations out of colored tissue and stick it to your tissue before film. I would use a very light spray of adhesive (3M makes a good spray adhesive for this) on the back. Just enough to keep it in place while film covering. The free flight guys used to do all their decorating with tissue cutouts.
Make a sandwich (from the bottom) of wax paper, colored tissue, another layer of wax paper and your artwork on top. Tape it down well to prevent slippage. Use a brand new blade to prevent tearing.
Toshi Matsuda was a master at this. Sadly, they didn’t have polyspan and mylar, so it needed multiple coats of dope to get a gloss finish. His models were a work of art and, flying, beat the socks off his competitors. I have seen his Zero do a five minute max in early morning dead air. Of course engine runs were longer then.
I think he also got factory selected Holland Hornets. The good ones were as good as the best TeeDees. There just wasn't the consistency Cox achieved.
Also Hollands seemed to have fragile crankshafts if you ran high nitro and small props. But of course, who would do that?
Sadly, mine landed in a cornfield and I never saw it again. Sal Taibi Starduster high thrust design and never had a better free flight. VTO launch, pure vertical climb, quick roll into glide. Probably couldn't make a new one do that.
🤠
-
Ok I finally found some doculam at a decent price. It comes in 1.5 and 3mm. I got the 1.5. I still can't find a source for Polyspan.
Ken
Already here. Pretty fast. My first experience with this stuff. Sure is thin and strong. I am going to try it on one of my canards tomorrow. ModPodge - Silkspan - Mylar...what is the world coming to. ???
Ken
-
Remember not to seal the open areas of the silk span. D>K
-
Keep us posted on your progress. H^^
-
I am not sure if Phil is still selling his material. I recently saw this source of very thin .6mil doculam material. https://jhaerospace.com/product/0-6-mil-doculam-16um-6ft-roll/
Also a link to video on applying tissue on top of doculam, which is backwards from Larry's methods. Cool to see additional methods in use. This channel has some interesting stuff to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSi81sbQQK4
-
Phil Cartier's wife is sitting on a large amount of SLC that she would like to unload. He had just purchased a huge amount prior to falling ill. If at all possible it would be great if an individual/contingent could take this off her hands as she could use the money for his care.
Tom
-
The one thing I would do that he doesn't address on the video is that I like to put several pin holes in each rib and at the wing tip edge. If you don't when the sun hits it it will balloon up on you. If you look at some of my planes in which I put the tissue or silk span down first is that once the doculam is applied it looks like a dope finish,. D>K
-
Here's The picture I didn't post two years ago (reply 186). Polyspan, applied with Mod Podge, heat shrunk, then covered with SLC. Ultimately, it was painted over with white KlassKote epoxy. Works great. No bubbles or sags, no loose seams. Plane is a Mockingbird slow rat racer by PDK.
-
Phil Cartier's wife is sitting on a large amount of SLC that she would like to unload. He had just purchased a huge amount prior to falling ill. If at all possible it would be great if an individual/contingent could take this off her hands as she could use the money for his care.
Tom
If anything happens toward that end, I would order at least a 100 ft roll. I assume that he can't take orders for it himself at this time? I would hate to bother him or his wife if he's that sick.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
-
They has it in stock. Looks a bit light but that's OK. Price was reasonable. Now we just wait for the film and Polyspan to get here.
Ken
I use something called polyspan lite and just cover the open bays. You have to take care not to heat shrink it to much or holes will open up. Then cover with coverite microlite which already has color. It ends up lighter and less work since you don't have to paint it.
Do they make SLC in colors?
MM 8)
-
I just discovered this thread. I have a few questions.
Are you guys buying the gloss ModPodge or the matte ModPodge?
Do you thin it down before applying it on the plane?
Does ModPodge have a strong odor like paint?
Has anyone tried using thinned-down white glue (instead of the ModPodge), letting it dry, and then using a heat iron to "activate" the white glue to stick the silkspan or polyspan to the plane? I have not tried this but I saw a picture of a wing done like this and it turned out great.
Just asking questions and buying supplies at this point. Thanks.
-
I used the gloss ModPodge, straight from the bottle. I found that one coat didn't adhere as well as I wanted it to, So I used two coats. Very low odor. Excellent results.
-
I used the gloss ModPodge, straight from the bottle. I found that one coat didn't adhere as well as I wanted it to, So I used two coats. Very low odor. Excellent results.
I have been using two coats for the same reason. I may have not let it dry long enough before sanding. When I MonoKoted it bubbled up (the ModPodge) in spots when used the heatgun. Too much heat. Looked like toad skin. I was able to slowly iron out the bubbles with lower heat but you can't match the smoothness of the heat gun with an iron, at least I can't!
Ken
-
I have used Mod-Podge gloss and matte with same results. You guy must be spreading it to thin. It really just to hold the poly-span, silk span or tissue until the Mylar is put over the base covering. Nother material that is mucho cheaper is Light weight jacket lining material from the local fabric store. D>K
-
Has anyone following this thread used Doculam over Polyspan on a full-sized PA. I am planning just that, and I want to know any downside that I may face. I was impressed with the tests on three removable parts of the plane, especially with its ability to take Rustoleum spray and sanding. What most concerns me is the Texas Sun. Will having a layer of Doculam in the middle of the finish cause problems. Putting it under the Polyspan is pointless for saving weight. The film is like 4 coats of dope for the weight of one. Has anybody tried it with a sandable primer?
Ken
-
What most concerns me is the Texas Sun.
Ken
Ken,
Here's my experience with Doculam, it may have some relevance to your question. Below is my Clown Racer from early 2000. After the races died out in our area it was put away in my attic in the Boston area for years and went through freezing cold and sweltering heat. It then came to Maine for even more extremes in temperature and eventually all the paint came off the covering.
The film was scuffed with OOO steelwool and sprayed with waterbased System Three marine urethane primer and their color coat. The products were sold through the Nelson Co. advertising in Model Aviation. The fuselage was primed and sanded with the same primer. The paint and primer did survive the silkspan and talc/dope base prep and looks like the picture to this day.
Ara
-
Thanks Ara, I have had some silkspan/dope finishes separate in those conditions. It looks like the Doculam over the silkspan held though and that is my major concern.
ken