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Author Topic: silk span verse real silk  (Read 1235 times)

Offline Terry Mcqueen

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silk span verse real silk
« on: December 01, 2018, 08:19:48 PM »
I'm wondering why every one  seems to be using silk span instead of real 100%. I remember back in the 1960's the best looking finishes were always silk. Is anyone using it any more? If so I would like to do a classic colored silk with a clear finish. I never was able to master the technique, can any one give me some tips on this subject?

                                            Thank you   Terry McQueen Tempe Arizona Z@@ZZZ

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: silk span verse real silk
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 09:11:47 PM »
$2 silk is now $35 a square yard. Good silkspan no longer exists. Polyspan is currently where it is at for conventional finishes. Actually better than silkspan ever was. Tougher and heat shrinkable. No water shrink required, wet strength not an issue.

Better, though is Polyspan undoped with a Mylar film bonded to it. Sort of do it yourself Micafilm. Look at the SLC over Polyspan thread.

Also, look into “doctor paper” on this forum.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: silk span verse real silk
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2018, 10:45:48 PM »
Silk is available, you just don't want to buy the stuff sold to modelers.  Check out this thread for a bit of detail, or search on "Dharma" for a lot of info.

Note that I have not personally bought any silk from Dharma, but the number of people who've done so have me convinced that in the event that having enough covering materials for the next 60 years isn't enough, I'll buy silk from Dharma.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: silk span verse real silk
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 07:19:53 AM »
I'm wondering why every one  seems to be using silk span instead of real 100%. I remember back in the 1960's the best looking finishes were always silk. Is anyone using it any more? If so I would like to do a classic colored silk with a clear finish. I never was able to master the technique, can any one give me some tips on this subject?

                                            Thank you   Terry McQueen Tempe Arizona Z@@ZZZ

Terry,

Welcome!

Your first Thread I see, It'll be a real winner. Controversial for sure.

 Controversial, "Giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement." LL~ LL~ LL~

So, you're wondering why everyone is using "silk span" instead of 100% silk?

How did you come to this conclusion?

I used 100% silk on all these models.

Terry, buckle up!  LL~

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: silk span verse real silk
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 07:21:45 AM »
I always used silkspan (up until the good stuff was mostly gone) because it finished the lightest of most coverings except jap tissue and was far easier to use than silk.  As mentioned the cost was another factor both in silk and the extra dope it required to fill.  No doubt you can get a great finish on silk too. I recently covered a new one in silk.  It went over weight pretty fast at 700 sq. in. and hangs on the wall to keep the house firmly down on the foundation.  I'm now fully sheeting everything and coming out lighter.  Silk is great for smaller airplanes, trainer types and certainly old time projects.  I recently built a few nostalgia combat airplanes, Sneekers, Big Iron and they are silked for durability.

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: silk span verse real silk
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 05:39:08 AM »
I always used silkspan (up until the good stuff was mostly gone) because it finished the lightest of most coverings except jap tissue and was far easier to use than silk.  As mentioned the cost was another factor both in silk and the extra dope it required to fill.  No doubt you can get a great finish on silk too. I recently covered a new one in silk.  It went over weight pretty fast at 700 sq. in. and hangs on the wall to keep the house firmly down on the foundation.  I'm now fully sheeting everything and coming out lighter.  Silk is great for smaller airplanes, trainer types and certainly old time projects.  I recently built a few nostalgia combat airplanes, Sneekers, Big Iron and they are silked for durability.

Dave

I cut a sq. yard of silk and I cut a sq. yard of silk span for a weight test.

The silk span weighed in at 11 grams and the silk at 14 grams. WOW! what a difference.

Having used both silk and silk span, for me anyway, I like the silk better for many reasons.

I find dope fills the weave on the silk with less coats than silk span. But that's me.

Obvious differences from person to person because of many reasons. The percentage of the thinning, type of brush, application, the method the modeler uses to apply the dope, i.e., amount of pressure and brush movement, fully loaded or not.

Terry, you're new so you haven't seen these models. All have silk span covering. The wing to my Gee Bee Z has silk span. I'm considering recovering it with silk. This model, The ARGO 2 was covered in silk span, I recovered it with silk. Finished weight was just under 55 ounces.

Dave, I remember you saying you experienced "cracking" in the open bays with silk span. Did you ever draw a conclusion or reason as to why this occurred?



 

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: silk span verse real silk
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 07:14:09 AM »
I cut a sq. yard of silk and I cut a sq. yard of silk span for a weight test.

The silk span weighed in at 11 grams and the silk at 14 grams. WOW! what a difference.

Having used both silk and silk span, for me anyway, I like the silk better for many reasons.

I find dope fills the weave on the silk with less coats than silk span. But that's me.

Obvious differences from person to person because of many reasons. The percentage of the thinning, type of brush, application, the method the modeler uses to apply the dope, i.e., amount of pressure and brush movement, fully loaded or not.

Terry, you're new so you haven't seen these models. All have silk span covering. The wing to my Gee Bee Z has silk span. I'm considering recovering it with silk. This model, The ARGO 2 was covered in silk span, I recovered it with silk. Finished weight was just under 55 ounces.

Dave, I remember you saying you experienced "cracking" in the open bays with silk span. Did you ever draw a conclusion or reason as to why this occurred?
Charles for a long time I figured it was the (Sig) dope getting brittle.  I knew Sig had changed suppliers at one time and maybe the formula seemed quite different batch to batch-especially viscosity.  Thats actually when I went to Certified. However I later discovered the silkspan I was buying had no real fiber strength (Easy Built) and would also shred with the Certified eventually as it cured out.  That's when I just gave up and went to full sheeted surfaces.  These I can sand more and dope less.  I DO cover these with .02 carbon or a small supply of old lightweight silkspan that Doc gifted to me.  I stripped and refinished my three best airplanes to get rid of the problem.  I have a handful of old classic stunt kits so I stole the good silkspan from them to recover.  Some of that silkspan was 60 years old!  So far so good.  Don't know what I'll cover the classics with....maybe I'll take a loan and buy some silkspan off Ebay!

Dave
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 07:42:25 AM by Dave_Trible »
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: silk span verse real silk
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 11:06:38 AM »
Way back when I started in this model plane stuff I was building a stunt plane I wanted to look nice and last a while.   Up to that time I used silk on the combat planes.  Several lasted longer than they should have and the silk started splitting.   Was told it was the dope attacking the silk.  The person said use nylon and told me how to put it on as it did not shrink like silk.   Nylon was also tougher.  I have not used either for many years now with the advent of MonoKote.  I won't repeat what I now use as it is covered in the finishing section. D>K
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