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Author Topic: silk application problem - help  (Read 3478 times)

Offline Will Moore

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silk application problem - help
« on: April 17, 2025, 08:34:19 AM »
I'm having a problem applying silk over airframe:

I have done several test ways....dry with instant glue as Aveojet does, dry with dope, wet with dope.

after I apply 50/50 taunting dope over silk, ion all these cases, brushed on, the silk is relaxing and becoming loose on airframe.

What am I doing wrong?

Second question - Polyspan - do you apply it wet or dry?

Thanks for your help.
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Offline doug coursey

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2025, 08:42:06 AM »
I'm having a problem applying silk over airframe:

I have done several test ways....dry with instant glue as Aveojet does, dry with dope, wet with dope.

after I apply 50/50 taunting dope over silk, ion all these cases, brushed on, the silk is relaxing and becoming loose on airframe.

What am I doing wrong?

Second question - Polyspan - do you apply it wet or dry?

WHAT KIND OR BRAND OF SILK,WHAT BRAND OF DOPE...I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH HABOTAI SILK THE LIGHTEST VERSION..I APPLIED IT WET AND THE FIRST 2 OR 3 COATS OF DOPE LEFT IT WRINKLED BUT AFTER APPLING MORE COATS OF DOPE IT FINALLY TIGHTENED UP JUST FINE...

Thanks for your help.
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Offline Will Moore

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2025, 11:24:02 AM »
I bought it from Dharma Trading CO.
Black and silver , Habotai. 8mm

I am using Randolph clear butyrate tauntening dope, fresh, just purchased, and am thinning it 50/50 with
their thinner

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2025, 12:37:26 PM »
Some brands or even colors of silk shrink a little better than others but I have always covered with the silk wet.   When you do it dry you are counting on the dope to do all the shrinking.   What happens though dry is the dope wets the silk which causes it to loosen up and bag.  Then you are just hoping the shrinkage will pull it back to where you started.   When you cover wet-and STRETCH it as much as you can when you dope the edges down it will shrink down a little tighter to begin with.  Then dope will shrink it a LITTLE more.   It will never shrink as much as say silkspan does.   Also be sure you are using tautening clear dope- like Randolph tautening.   Even so it can take five or six coats to pull the last of the wrinkles out.   Then you can change to non-taunting and /or colored dope after you achieve tight covering.  Also might be better not to thin the dope more than 1/3rd or less.   

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Offline Will Moore

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2025, 01:17:49 PM »
So, I am using the correct tauntening dope, thats not the problem.
Maybe I am not stretching the silk tight enough putting in on.

If I cannot get this resolved, I’m going move over to polyspan.
I am building and finishing an Ares, built to plan, and , of course, electric.
Wanted to have it look vintage.
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Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2025, 02:28:07 PM »
Water does not shrink Polyspan.  Put the polyspan on dry but try to pull the wrinkles out as you go.  Heating the polyspan will shrink it.   I never needed to use tautening dope.  The non-tautening dope will still shrink a bit and it is enough as long as you did not have it very loose to begin with.

Offline Will Moore

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2025, 07:01:08 PM »
thank you, all for your help
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Offline doug coursey

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2025, 07:31:33 AM »
I USED THE DARMHA WHITE LIGHTER SILK AND ALSO THE DYED COLORED THICKER SILK AND IT SEEMS LIKE IT DOESNT TIGHTEN UP AS MUCH AS THE LIGHTER WHITE SILK..IT MAY BE BECAUSE IT IS DYED AND IS PRE SHRUNK BECAUSE OF THAT.......THE LIGHTER SILK TIGHTENS UP NICELY BUT IT TAKES ABOUT 5 OR 6 COATS OF TAUTENING DOPE TO DO IT APPLIED WET AND PULLED TIGHT
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2025, 08:58:59 AM »
  If you can search around the site here for posts by the late Jim Thomerson on how to apply silk, I think they may help you quite a bit. Jim did simple silk finished and that was just about all he used I think. Going from memory, I think he applied it wet, and held it in place with pins while he stretched it out before applying dope to adhere it to the frame work. I do not suggest the C/A glue approach, as it dries up very hard and when you have to do any sanding, you stand a real good chance of sanding through the silk.
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Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2025, 10:53:46 AM »
Will,
 Pretty common that the silk is relaxing after first few coats. Usually needs 5 coats to start getting tight again. I  would proceed with doping and it will come back. However, FYI, 8MM is a bit too heavy for our needs. I have used it with success but, found 5mm to be better and it is a piece of cake to dye.

keep Doping'
Tom
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2025, 12:49:01 PM »
One of the reasons this old man quit using silk.  Takes at least 6 coats thinned so easy to brush.   Last plane I did took 8 coats to get it drum tight.   Put it on wet pulling wrinkles out as you go.  As usual with any covering the wing tips are the hardest. D>K
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2025, 11:17:34 AM »
Will,
I had this same problem on both my El Diablo and Barnstomer. I used both the wet and stretch and the dry pin/CA stretch methods (I like the pin/CA method, is to do inside). In both cases it took about 8 coats (50/50) to get it to reshrink to drum tight. I used the same silk you are using, no problems. Just keep going, let it dry several hours between coats in the sun if you can. Somewhere around the 6-7 coat you start to see it shrink tighter. Once it gets tight switch to non-taunting (like Sig lite coat, not the Super coat as that is the shrink clear). Good luck, post pictures.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Will Moore

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2025, 07:28:25 AM »
thank you all for your suggestions. I think I have decided on old fashion silkspan.....and I appreciate all your comments, very help[ful

And Dennis - if you are still reading this....how is everything with you...heard you moved ?

Also: trying to figure out how to downsize on my pics on my ap[please computer..Once I do I will post pictures
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Offline Will Moore

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2025, 08:08:03 AM »
Here is the Ares
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2025, 02:28:09 PM »
Will,
Ship looks great. Yes, I moved from FL to Fletcher, NC. We bought a new house and even though it's about the same size as the house in FL, I don't have a room to build in or store my stuff. Looking into a large shed later in summer. I am still unpacking and only have two ships that I have equipment to fly and one of those (the Rescue Ringmaster) I flew through a bush my first day back in the air last week. Luckily it only shredded the silkspan covering, no structural damage (knotted the stab lose but still in place). I am going to do transparent yellow MonoKote.

With the silkspan don't be surprised if it takes almost 6 - 8 coats to get it tight (similar to silk).

 Best,   DennisT

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: silk application problem - help
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2025, 05:59:52 AM »
I bought it from Dharma Trading CO.
Black and silver , Habotai. 8mm

I am using Randolph clear butyrate tauntening dope, fresh, just purchased, and am thinning it 50/50 with
their thinner

8mm is too heavy.  Use 5mm or 5.5.  You can use the 8mm a little at a time to beef up stress joints.
For me, using my thinness, it's baggy after five coats and tight after six.  I don't even try to do ratios.  I just stir it until if feels good.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2025, 11:52:05 AM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

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