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Author Topic: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?  (Read 857 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

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Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« on: August 23, 2021, 09:38:41 AM »
Guys,
Repairing some damage on my electric Ringmaster that had Rustoleum on the nose and center planking. I was wondering if there is a top coat that would allow dope to stick (some open bay covering needs redo) on the areas that I need to adhere covering to planking. One option is to sand off all the paint but you still get that interface and the dope will crinkle. Wound Minwax Poly work?

Best,    DennisT

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2021, 02:05:19 PM »
Without knowing what's overlapping what, it's hard to say.  Is it covered with silkspan & dope, then painted overall with Rustoleum, or are you just overlapping Rustoleum onto the open structure close to the fuselage & whatnot?

If you sand down to covering, then you should be OK.  I think any little flecks of Rustoleum will be OK under dope (this may be famous last words -- try it!).

Note This isn't helpful to you, but may be to someone else contemplating a finish combination:  'coat (Monocoat or Ultracoat) works well either under or over Rustoleum.  Since Rustoleum is never going to look as good as dope, I either go all-in with silkspan & dope, or I cover open structure with 'coat and paint solid stuff (and trim) with Rustoleum.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2021, 04:05:39 PM »
Tim,
It is silkspan and clear dope with some black Rustoleum over the nose and center planking. I used the Rustoleum cause my LHS did not have any black dope and I didn't want to pay three times the cost of the product for shipping from Brodak for a 4oz jar of dope. Its electric and I felt what the heck, I had the black Rustoleum on hand and it looked ok. Repair was not contemplated. Lesson leaned.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2021, 08:38:18 PM »
You might want to try some dope on some of the Rustoleum on a damaged section, just to see what happens.

When I was looking for paint on the cheap, I tested some well-cured Protective Gloss Enamel with 25% nitro, and it didn't blink - I didn't even get a color change after soaking for ten minutes.

If you've had the plane for a while, and it's Gloss Protective Enamel, you may just be able to dope over it.  You have nothing to lose by the attempt.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2021, 02:29:10 PM »
I think I found and answer (see attached Compatibility Chart). Nitrate dope will go over and under (except Butyrate and Aero Gloss) all our common paints (after gas off, including Rustoleum - acrylic enamel), so I can apply nitrate to seal and overlap the Rustoleum, do the repair then apply a coat of nitrate to seal, then refinish. I knew, nitrate was good for something. Glad I didn't toss it out.

Best,    DennisT

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2021, 04:16:52 AM »
                Dennis, nitrate dope really doesn't go over Rustoleum. Rustoleum is a enamel and nitrate is a lacquer. Enamel over lacquer not the other way around. Nitrate is a universal base for almost any finish. When you cut back sanding the affected area, you could put nitrate on the raw areas to build up but you also run the risk of it alligatoring the edges of the Rustoleum. Once enamel is "Fully cured" enamel is some tough stuff but puddling around the perimeter where you sanded can and will cause it to alligator and lift  as the nitrates solvents attack the enamel. I've done this successfully many times but I also had issues doing it as well. It was more successful to spray the area and dust into the Rustoleum  with a  dry spray vs a heavy lay down coat. You could then use a primer such as Crest high build and make the repair area level for the final coat.

               I also don't understand your comment that nitrate isn't good for anything. I've used it for nearly 20 years as a base for every dope finish I ever used. Unlike butyrate, it's recoat time is faster, it dusts off sanding faster, it works better on synthetic coverings and it doesn't blister in intersections like butyrate. Even in the event of a repair, one isn't supposed to spray nitrate over butyrate but I've done that using the dry spray method above when I needed to do so. I finished many planes with Sig Koverall and when a repair was needed, I would cut back the color down to the covering, airbrush a few build up coats of nitrate and follow up with butyrate.

     

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2021, 11:18:09 AM »
Ken,
I will check this on a scrap piece before I do the full repair, understand about the thinner could be an issue. Maybe a dry ish first coat. According to the compatibility chart it should work but your point is a good one on the thinner.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2021, 02:15:19 PM »
Ken,
I will check this on a scrap piece before I do the full repair, understand about the thinner could be an issue. Maybe a dry ish first coat. According to the compatibility chart it should work but your point is a good one on the thinner.

Best,    DennisT

I'd be tempted to just give it a whirl, and if it gators just sand it smooth and do it again!
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2021, 10:26:07 AM »
Update: I decided to try two approaches. First was to swipe some Elmer's filler over the outer 1/2" of the center planking, sand most off smooth then overcoat with nitrate. Second, on the bottom, was to just do the nitrate straight on the outer 1/2" of planking. Both worked, thinking back I might have just tried a coat of poly carb since it is water based and then overcoat with nitrate or Butyrate, but I am good with the results and will proceed to complete the patch repair.

Best,   DennisT

Offline mccoy40

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2021, 08:46:57 AM »
Well I may be too late for this conversation, BUT....

I use thinned white glue on the enamel and other paints. I patched a bunch of holes in a plane covered with Perfect paint (enamel?) and the white glue worked well with the doctor's table paper I was using. It also shrank similar to Dope. I then used enamel on top of that for finishing.

If all else fails then try this approach. I was happy with the results, but this was a beater airplane as well so I wasn't looking for much in terms of finish

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2021, 02:11:37 PM »
McCoy,
Could you detail the white glue/doctor paper method. I have hear of this but not sure how it is applied. Does it work on open bay or only foam wings?

Best,   DennisT

Offline mccoy40

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2021, 05:57:12 PM »
Sure.

The technique is similar to dope in all respects except for the actual material, thinned white glue. 
I use elmer's white glue and thin it between 30 to 25 percent with water. Shake it well and use a regular paint brush similar to what you would use for dope.

I apply the patch and then paint it with the glue. You can apply the patch wet or dry. I paint after applying because it is easier to position the paper.

  I've done open bays as well as solid surfaces.

The glue attaches the paper in a similar manner as dope.

I then allow it to dry for a night and add another couple of coats for the next three or four days. I also sand the paper with 600 grit sand paper.

I've done this on foam wings as well.

I will be trying it on a Midwest ME109 wing shortly.

Typically when I do the foam wings or an open structure like the me109 wing  I preapply a few coats - like you would for dope. Same with fuselages and tail etc.

I wish I could take credit for this technique but I believe it was one of the combat guys who came up with this approach.

As always you have to keep an eye out for warps etc.

Hope this helps :D

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Repairing Rustoleum paint surface?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2021, 08:35:45 AM »
Sure.

The technique is similar to dope in all respects except for the actual material, thinned white glue. 
I use elmer's white glue and thin it between 30 to 25 percent with water. Shake it well and use a regular paint brush similar to what you would use for dope.

I apply the patch and then paint it with the glue. You can apply the patch wet or dry. I paint after applying because it is easier to position the paper.

  I've done open bays as well as solid surfaces.

The glue attaches the paper in a similar manner as dope.

I then allow it to dry for a night and add another couple of coats for the next three or four days. I also sand the paper with 600 grit sand paper.

I've done this on foam wings as well.

I will be trying it on a Midwest ME109 wing shortly.

Typically when I do the foam wings or an open structure like the me109 wing  I preapply a few coats - like you would for dope. Same with fuselages and tail etc.

I wish I could take credit for this technique but I believe it was one of the combat guys who came up with this approach.

As always you have to keep an eye out for warps etc.

Hope this helps :D

Why don't you just use a piece of silk, silkspan or Polyspan and apply it with Minwax Polycrylic. You can speed dry Minwax Polycrylic with a heat gun and probably finish the repair in an hour.

I would use 400 first then 600.

Others may come forward, but I've used Minwax Polycrylic on many of my models. All the sheeted areas.

If the Rustoleum is Lacquer base, you can use Deft Lacquer wood sealer over it. Works the same except it's not water based. It's good stuff and so is the Minwax Polycrylic. I've used the Deft Lacquer wood sealer on my models also.

If the model is painted with lacquer primer and lacquer colors, why use a water base product for a repair anyway?

What are you using for a final top coat which should be fuel proof?

BTW. The Deft dries in 30 minutes if you elect to not speed dry.

I've used both these products on all my models. Descriptions and photos in my Builds.

CB

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