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Author Topic: Polish for dope  (Read 1318 times)

Offline P Maset

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Polish for dope
« on: September 22, 2021, 10:03:21 PM »
Hi all.

 I have watched several a few finishing videos from Windy U, and he mentions using Gorham's silver polish to buff the dope with. since this is no longer available, what is the best go to for finishing buff?

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2021, 08:19:13 AM »
  Ty is on the money with his reply. The Gorham's polish is like lost polish for jewelry, not very aggressive since most precocious metals are pretty soft. If you have access to other similar polishes, even toothpaste, you might try them. Go to an auto paint store and 3M makes a wide variety of products for polishing paint. Just tell the counter guy what you are doing and if he doesn't know what airplane dope is, tell him it's in the lacquer family. And like Ty mentions the linger you wait the better results and easier it will be. I have heard of some guys through the years that wait up to 6 months. You can fly the model in that time, and when you wipe it off at the end of the session you may notice it getting a bit more shiny each time. You might even try using furniture polish after it's dry from post flight cleaning. What you have on your finish isn't very thick so you have to watch how aggressive you get when doing the buffing.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2021, 08:15:41 PM »
Hi all.

 I have watched several a few finishing videos from Windy U, and he mentions using Gorham's silver polish to buff the dope with. since this is no longer available, what is the best go to for finishing buff?

 I did an extensive search about 7-8 years ago for exactly the same reason. Get ahold of some Blue Magic metal polish, a blue cream and it works very, very well. It's not too hard to find either, I've seen recently it at auto parts stores, hardware stores etc. Don't waste your time or money with anything else.
 
  https://www.bluemagicusa.com/500-06-metal-polish-jar/
 

Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2021, 01:02:52 PM »
This is an interesting thread.  I have no idea how to say "dope" in Polish, and would probably end up saying "I would like some idiot to put on my toy airplane", or perhaps I would accidentally purchase some recreational drugs.

Mothers is an entire line of car polishes, but IIRC at one point they were most famous for their wheel polish -- it is, possibly, where the brand started, but I'm more of a wheel-abuser than a wheel-polisher, so I can't say.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 05:07:24 PM by Tim Wescott »
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2021, 01:55:43 PM »
As they advertise, the Blue stuff leaves a "Protective silicone film", which in my opinion is a big no-no, if you wish to repair or modify the paint job later.
That's why it's better to use polishing products from car paint shop. They are usually guaranteed silicone-free. L

    Just a question here. If you are going to make a repair, or even repaint the whole airplane, wouldn't a proper surface preparation of a thorough sanding and solvent wipe down remove any residue that may be left behind? The silicone wouldn't be penetrating very deep into the surface beyond what the polish would be cutting into the surface when used, I would think? I would think the purpose of the silicone would be to make the surface slick to repel water, dirt and dust, correct? ( I almost sound like a commercial !!) So, if you cut into that same surface with some fine paper and some solvent, I would think that would remove it.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2021, 06:13:23 PM »
No, it can be very difficult to get rid of silicone, and working with products containing silicone cause a high risk of contaminating everything you touch with silicone. It's like cancer. L

I lived through those silicone years many of them and there where plenty of them.

Many body shop owners, I had 90 + accounts, wouldn't listen to me and they paid a price.

Eventually chemicals came around which had no silicone.

Can you say "fish eye."

CB
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2021, 07:06:05 PM »
As they advertise, the Blue stuff leaves a "Protective silicone film", which in my opinion is a big no-no, if you wish to repair or modify the paint job later.
That's why it's better to use polishing products from car paint shop. They are usually guaranteed silicone-free. L

 Like Dan is pointing out it's not a problem with proper preparation, and it doesn't take much. It never ceases to amaze me how many overthinkers there are here. Oh well.  D>K
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2021, 07:45:16 AM »
No overthinking here. This IS the reason why good car-paint related products are advertised as silicone-free. I guess everyone has to experience it once😂 L

There are some in the forum who have an extensive background with ALL the finishing products and a lifetime using professional automotive products, including the most expensive paint systems available.

Quote
I guess everyone has to experience it once😂 L

Yes, this is called leaning the hard way. 😂 L

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2021, 09:54:45 PM »
No overthinking here. This IS the reason why good car-paint related products are advertised as silicone-free. I guess everyone has to experience it once😂 L

 I get you're point and understand the theoretical problems, these are always wise things to consider.
 However, here's what I know to be fact,  I've personally made covering and paint repairs on multiple models that had previously been polished with Blue Magic and have had no issues whatsoever. Also, the list of products used in a full blown quality auto paint job are entirely different than painting a model airplane with butyrate dope.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2021, 06:39:15 AM »
I get you're point and understand the theoretical problems, these are always wise things to consider.
 However, here's what I know to be fact,  I've personally made covering and paint repairs on multiple models that had previously been polished with Blue Magic and have had no issues whatsoever. Also, the list of products used in a full blown quality auto paint job are entirely different than painting a model airplane with butyrate dope.

You may want to start trying a more contemporary paint system, like many of the "front row" guys.

Many are using automotive paint systems, which provide a much better result than using dope.

It's not the 50's any more.

If anyone wants information about automotive paint systems, simply send me a PM.

I'll bet, by the time we get done talking, you won't ever use colored dope again.

It's catching on.

I strongly believe some still want to keep this a secret.

CB
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2021, 05:00:21 PM »
You may want to start trying a more contemporary paint system, like many of the "front row" guys.

Many are using automotive paint systems, which provide a much better result than using dope.

It's not the 50's any more.

If anyone wants information about automotive paint systems, simply send me a PM.

I'll bet, by the time we get done talking, you won't ever use colored dope again.

It's catching on.

I strongly believe some still want to keep this a secret.

CB

 
    This is some of the most useless advise I have ever seen. I have seen many of Wayne's models, and they leave your stuff in the shadows, and THEY FLY!!! You do not fly your models, you do not present your models for " Front Row" consideration and you have NO, MONE, ZIP, NADDA! reputation in the modeling community for performance so you can wrap up all this "advice" and store it where it never sees the sun!! For as long as you have been tormenting us on the forums, which has been for WAY too long)  you have been a maker of stickers and signs and made claims of earning a living at doing any number of there things, none seeming to be related to the other. If you were any good at any of them, or had any real passion for one, you would have stuck with one. You have never been to a NATS, never read anyone else's posts, so I know you don't know anyone that has ever had their model in the front row at the NATS! In one post you say all you use is SIG dope. In another you say all you use is Deft. In another you say all you use is Polycrylic. Then everything is Krylon!! You can't make up your mind what you prefer.  Wayne is very capable of speaking for himself, but I would bet the title on my house that you won't be getting a call from him asking for advice!
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2021, 05:50:48 PM »
 
    This is some of the most useless advise I have ever seen. I have seen many of Wayne's models, and they leave your stuff in the shadows, and THEY FLY!!! You do not fly your models, you do not present your models for " Front Row" consideration and you have NO, MONE, ZIP, NADDA! reputation in the modeling community for performance so you can wrap up all this "advice" and store it where it never sees the sun!! For as long as you have been tormenting us on the forums, which has been for WAY too long)  you have been a maker of stickers and signs and made claims of earning a living at doing any number of there things, none seeming to be related to the other. If you were any good at any of them, or had any real passion for one, you would have stuck with one. You have never been to a NATS, never read anyone else's posts, so I know you don't know anyone that has ever had their model in the front row at the NATS! In one post you say all you use is SIG dope. In another you say all you use is Deft. In another you say all you use is Polycrylic. Then everything is Krylon!! You can't make up your mind what you prefer.  Wayne is very capable of speaking for himself, but I would bet the title on my house that you won't be getting a call from him asking for advice!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

You're so funny,

Yes, I've been making an attempt to get other modelers to stop using dope.

I stand by what I say, colored Dope is a product of the past.

I'm also cleaning up my reply trying to be more polite because others read this.

You're remarks, coming from a guy with super experience who offers advise to use a polish with silicone.  n1

Dan, you're not a builder. Post your models and direct me to your Builds. I've asked many times.

My "work" is in full view and I'm happy with the results.

Why do you always find fault in my work as a modeler?

Here's my work, now show me yours.

BTW, I have absolutely no interest in wet sanding and polishing my models.

One of the reason I use a two part automotive clear and will continue to do so.



« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 06:23:34 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2021, 08:13:58 PM »
 Here we go again, another one of hundreds of otherwise useful and productive threads being sidetracked and ruined by 'Jetwad. I feel sorry for the newer forum member who started this thread with a legitimate question and now has to see Charles ruin it exactly like he has so many others.  :(
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 08:43:08 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2021, 09:44:19 PM »
Here we go again, another one of hundreds of otherwise useful and productive threads being sidetracked and ruined by 'Jetwad. I feel sorry for the newer forum member who started this thread with a legitimate question and now has to see Charles ruin it exactly like he has so many others.  :(

Common reply.

Read the thread. I didn't ruin it.

You people did like you always do.
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2021, 03:37:03 PM »
Well I see I havenít missed much. Itís the same guy with with the same attitude.  ::)
-Clint-

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2021, 05:56:12 PM »
Well I see I havenít missed much. Itís the same guy with with the same attitude.  ::)

I can't see playing this game any longer.

The only thing you're worth is Blocking.

I have a few guys just like you Blocked. Every now and again I take a look hoping to see something they write of value.

I should know better.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 06:19:01 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Jerry Rauch

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2021, 06:33:37 PM »
While I am NOT a professional automotive painter, I have sprayed many, many different cars, motorcycles, model airplanes, machinery, parts, etc. with many different styles, models,  of guns, both cheap and very high quality guns, for a LOT of years.
Please, before you do any sanding, clean the item with Ajax or Comet powder cleaner first, mixed with clean water.  If you begin by sanding, you will sand any present silicone on the surface into the paint. After cleaning with Ajax or Comet, then clean with wax and grease remover, using paper towels wetted with wax and grease remover, immediately drying with new, clean paper towels. Then you can sand without trapping contaminants.
Harbor Freight guns WILL give a pretty good finish, if you thin your paint a little more than the paint manufacturers call for. Test your gun adjustment on cardboard before you actually spray for the amount of coverage you are happy with. Always spray first coat very lightly.
HF guns are not high priced, nor are they high quality,  but they do spray pretty good for the first few times, but this doesn't last.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2021, 09:32:11 PM »
While I am NOT a professional automotive painter, I have sprayed many, many different cars, motorcycles, model airplanes, machinery, parts, etc. with many different styles, models,  of guns, both cheap and very high quality guns, for a LOT of years.
Please, before you do any sanding, clean the item with Ajax or Comet powder cleaner first, mixed with clean water.  If you begin by sanding, you will sand any present silicone on the surface into the paint. After cleaning with Ajax or Comet, then clean with wax and grease remover, using paper towels wetted with wax and grease remover, immediately drying with new, clean paper towels. Then you can sand without trapping contaminants.
Harbor Freight guns WILL give a pretty good finish, if you thin your paint a little more than the paint manufacturers call for. Test your gun adjustment on cardboard before you actually spray for the amount of coverage you are happy with. Always spray first coat very lightly.
HF guns are not high priced, nor are they high quality,  but they do spray pretty good for the first few times, but this doesn't last.

       I agree with all the above. Before this thread, I had never heard silicone mentioned in regard to paint prep and repair. I was taught years ago that before doing any crash or covering repair, strip the model completely of engine, tank, landing gear, anything that fuel and oil can accumulate on. This also makes the airframe lighter and easier to handle. After doing that, give the whole airplane a thorough wash down and clean it completely with a good cleaner/degreaser to remove fuel, oil , exhaust residue, bug guts, anything that may be on the surface, because you will be handling the model during  the repair. I was taught to do this wash down around the damaged areas with fine steel wool, but don't use too much pressure. The steel wool catches anything that it takes off the surface, and then a final wash down and rinse with a soft rag. I like old T-shirts or cloth baby diapers. When satisfied, get busy with the repairs. Again, this is what I was taught and have read elsewhere. My biggest problem has always been my hands. In my line of work (welding, fabricating, and industrial maintenance) my hands were always into something dirty, greasy and oily. And I hated to wear gloves, so my skin would soak up lots of gunk. I could wash my hands for 20 minutes and sometimes you couldn't tell much difference! Printing press gear trains run in a bath of oil, and after working on presses for 20 years, I think I would sweat that back out! When getting to the stage of doing any painting, I usually wash my hands about every ten minutes! I've been retired now since January and my hands are just now starting to look like what most people would call "normal".  Wanna try something different to deep clean your airplane surface? Try shampoo! With as dirty as I would get while working, I would notice that my hands always got a lot cleaner after taking a shower and washing my hair!  I haven't done this enough to say that it's better than anything else, but if it doesn't bother your scalp, but still cleans dirty, oily hair, it should clean a model airplane and not cause any problems to the existing finish!
    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Jerry Rauch

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Re: Polish for dope
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2021, 09:43:34 AM »
I think you're right about the hair shampoo. I normally use one of the weird hair shampoos for my hair, why, really don't know, probably because that's what my wife uses. Lately, she bought regular kids shampoo, used it and my hair was like straw after, but my hands were cleaner than usual. I have my hands in automotive Racing Oils usually, quite slimy, after washing my hair with the Johnsons kiddie shampoo, no trace of slime.


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